Why I think a lot of the Bible is False

[Riverwolf]

I think I was good that God put it there, they were given the freedom to choose. For example how would I know if my wife truly loves me if I was the only man on earth? Think about it.

That's easy. You'd trust her. Simple as that.

Besides, if she didn't really love you, I think there'd be other signs, such as not really wanting to be with you most of the time, avoiding you, constant arguments, etc.... other men don't even enter into it. I think a relationship with God would be the same way, if one were to compare such a relationship to a romantic relationship.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

sandy, I'm not following you. I say that God has committed atrocities. You say He hasn't. I say but didn't he repeatedly command genocide? You say that's a non sequitor. Why? Isn't genocide an atrocity?

Maybe I've not read far enough back but I was speaking of the flood and you broadened the parameters.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

And this, in a nutshell, is one of the most evil aspects of Christian theology; they believe that little newborn babies are evil. Therefore, killing them is justified, because combating evil is a good thing. Ack!I mean, if little babies aren't innocent, what is?

You are horribly confused. Everone dies because of sin. The wages of sin is death and through the sin of Adam death passed upon all men. That anyone lives is only by the grace of God. All are guilty. You seem to be confusing aspects of the guilt of sin with the act of salvation.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

And the funny thing is, I don't think that's mentioned anywhere in the Bible.

Which part of Autodidact's statement are you referring to?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Please tell me you're not claiming that doing the dishes is the moral equivalent of genocide.

The use of the word "genocide" is incorrect.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Hi Jayell. What could humans have done to upset god so much? Rebel? OK, but god does not have an ego problem, if we didnt want God, why would he have a gripe about letting us go? He doesnt, we have our independence here on earth, but we cant make good with it.

So, god is more concerned to get us back, than getting even.

Dont you think?

I think you and few others are missing the big picture. God wishes everone to be able to act out of perfect love. One failing in this (a single sin) is a complete failure in His eyes. Yet in His mercy He made a way for any who wish to be able to act in perfect love can do so.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

For I am a vain and jealous God, thou shalt have no other Gods before me.

Could you cite you source please?

 

[Riverwolf]

Which part of Autodidact's statement are you referring to?

Where she said that all babies are evil; that's nowhere in the Bible.

The use of the word "genocide" is incorrect.

Why? Killing is killing, regardless. I've killed. No human, but insects, bacteria... all life. I've killed them so I could survive, therefore it's justified.

Unjustified killing, that is, killing without survival in mind, is murder, which is forbidden in the ten commandments.

Could you cite you source please?

Oh, please. God says that numerous times in the Torah.

 

[Autodidact]

You are horribly confused. Everone dies because of sin. The wages of sin is death and through the sin of Adam death passed upon all men. That anyone lives is only by the grace of God. All are guilty. You seem to be confusing aspects of the guilt of sin with the act of salvation.

Sandy? These are actual conversations I've had with actual Christians. When I ask them why it was moral for God to order Hebrew to kill innocent newborn babies, they reply that those babies aren't innocent; they're born wicked, like all of us. Yuck. Disgusting philosophy.

 

[Heneni]

Sandy? These are actual conversations I've had with actual Christians. When I ask them why it was moral for God to order Hebrew to kill innocent newborn babies, they reply that those babies aren't innocent; they're born wicked, like all of us. Yuck. Disgusting philosophy.

If you are born on earth, its precisely because you are NOT innocent. The fact that you, me the little baby is here, is because you, me the little baby rebelled against god, wanted to be free from gods rule, and whola, here we are. Babies might be innocent in regards to sinning against their fellow humans, but no one on this planet is innocent of rebelling against god.

 

[crystalonyx]

If you are born on earth, its precisely because you are NOT innocent. The fact that you, me the little baby is here, is because you, me the little baby rebelled against god, wanted to be free from gods rule, and whola, here we are. Babies might be innocent in regards to sinning against their fellow humans, but no one on this planet is innocent of rebelling against god.

All of this is completely negated if no god exists, which IMHO is the case.

 

[Heneni]

Hi crystal!

True, but from my perspective, if god did not exist, then neither would me, you and the little baby.

But ok, if you dont believe that god exists, then the little babies are innocent with regards to their fellow human beings. And then the fact that this non existant god wanted the hebrews to kill babies never happened either. A mythical god would do mythical things.

 

[Riverwolf]

If you are born on earth, its precisely because you are NOT innocent. The fact that you, me the little baby is here, is because you, me the little baby rebelled against god, wanted to be free from gods rule, and whola, here we are. Babies might be innocent in regards to sinning against their fellow humans, but no one on this planet is innocent of rebelling against god.

Uh... no. Adam sinned. Eve sinned. The serpent sinned.

Sins of the father don't carry to the future generations in other peoples' beliefs, including mine. Granted, I've sinned, but I sinned after I was born; when I was an infant, I had a clean slate.

That's the argument.

Not only that, but using that logic, then Hebrew babies weren't innocent either, so why did they not get killed?

 

[Riverwolf]

Hi crystal!

True, but from my perspective, if god did not exist, then neither would me, you and the little baby.

But ok, if you dont believe that god exists, then the little babies are innocent with regards to their fellow human beings. And then the fact that this non existant god wanted the hebrews to kill babies never happened either. A mythical god would do mythical things.

The Hebrews did commit genocide. That's historical. The reason for it is the same reason for the Crusades. "Because God told us!"

Don't forget, it is generally accepted by scholars that the Torah was written well after the fact. They would have had to have some kind of excuse to please the children and future generations, so they said, "God told us!"

 

[Caladan]

Would one call the Iliad or the Odyssey false?
There are stories in the Bible which are addressed to the people of the time, with a very clear agenda, an agenda that is derived from the sociopolitical landscape of the time.
looking at it from perspectives of 'false' and 'right' is simply irrelevant.
The Bible is ought to be looked at for what it is, a collection of literature, parables, metaphors and allegories, history from a certain POV, myths- some of them under the influence of other ANE (ancient near eastern) mythologies, and Hebrew lore and traditions.
I think only a handful of people will take some of the material written in the Bible at face value, there is a context to everything.
From reading the original post of the thread, I would say that the beef is with a certain dogma, rather than a literary work we sometimes need to read in a certain context.

 

[Caladan]

he Hebrews did commit genocide. That's historical. The reason for it is the same reason for the Crusades. "Because God told us!"

Actually the Hebrews did not commit genocide. the passages that can be equated with genocide in the bible do not depict real historical events.
and no people of the time, took them to mean that they need to take arms and go on genocide, it was part of ideological push, that ended with the conquest of strategic territories, in a crucial time- the time of the collapse of the Assyrian empire.
the passages for example are the conquest of Canaan led by Joshua- which is not historical event, its an ideological text in the Bible, that was there because of the political landscape in the region, and the push of taking hold of important territorial points.

 

[Heneni]

Uh... no. Adam sinned. Eve sinned. The serpent sinned.

Hmmm...i understand that you and thousands of other people dont believe that they sinned against god before adam and eve was created. I dont believe that.

Sins of the father don't carry to the future generations in other peoples' beliefs, including mine. Granted, I've sinned, but I sinned after I was born; when I was an infant, I had a clean slate.

You had a clean slate before god? If that be the case, then you should shoot the person that taught you to tell the first lie. Or you should hate your mother and or father for teaching you to take cookies out of the cookie jar without their permission, or you should hate the person who taught you to lust. If you had a clean slate, then why did YOU not keep it clean? And if you want to blame someone else for your mishaps, then you are avoiding responsibility for your own actions.

Not only that, but using that logic, then Hebrew babies weren't innocent either, so why did they not get killed

Well actually Herod had a few of them killed in his lifetime.

The Hebrews did commit genocide. That's historical. The reason for it is the same reason for the Crusades. "Because God told us!"

I suppose we all have to ask ourselves why we believe in a god that would kill babies? You have to sort that one out for yourself, or perhaps you have decided to not believe in a god that would do such a thing. But then, you need to ask yourself, why are you still alive? Because you are lucky? Or because god is keeping you alive? Are you the one keeping yourself going? If we could do that we would have power over life and death. We dont, but god does, so if those babies were killed, they could just as easily have been re-incarnated the next day, or even the instant they died.

 

[Riverwolf]

You had a clean slate before god? If that be the case, then you should shoot the person that taught you to tell the first lie. Or you should hate your mother and or father for teaching you to take cookies out of the cookie jar without their permission, or you should hate the person who taught you to lust. If you had a clean slate, then why did YOU not keep it clean? And if you want to blame someone else for your mishaps, then you are avoiding responsibility for your own actions.

I do. I'M the one who soiled my slate, not Adam, and cleaning it is not easy and takes forever. Besides, I don't hate; I forgive.

 

[Riverwolf]

I suppose we all have to ask ourselves why we believe in a god that would kill babies? You have to sort that one out for yourself, or perhaps you have decided to not believe in a god that would do such a thing. But then, you need to ask yourself, why are you still alive? Because you are lucky? Or because god is keeping you alive? Are you the one keeping yourself going? If we could do that we would have power over life and death. We dont, but god does, so if those babies were killed, they could just as easily have been re-incarnated the next day, or even the instant they died.

That's not how it works, in my book. Besides the fact that I don't really believe in luck, death is not a bad thing to me; it's only scary because no one knows what happens to our consciousness afterward. But it's a natural part of the Cycle; when I die, however I die, through it will there be more life, for my body will become food for various lifeforms, and will fertilize the soil so that plants can grow. Through death comes life. I can't say why I haven't died yet anymore than you can.

There's no "good" or "evil" in my beliefs; those are completely man-made.

 

[Autodidact]

If you are born on earth, its precisely because you are NOT innocent. The fact that you, me the little baby is here, is because you, me the little baby rebelled against god, wanted to be free from gods rule, and whola, here we are. Babies might be innocent in regards to sinning against their fellow humans, but no one on this planet is innocent of rebelling against god.

Are you Christian?