Why insult?

[Godobeyer]

I mean i can critic the democraty and regime in USA from my view , not as american citizen as you .

that's does not mean that USA don't have good level of democraty .

 

[leibowde84]

I apologize, but that differenciation doesn't exist.

there is big different between ,"anti-america" speech and protesting , don't mix between two subjects .

comparing USA to other country is not logic , because every country had it's favors and it's negatives about democraty .

i am from Algeria

I'm sorry, but that diffferenciation doesn't exist, at least not that I am aware of. So, please, provide an explanation of whaat you are referring to.

What do you mean by the difference between protesting and "anti-american" speech? What would the difference be? Obviously violence is not tolerated and neither are threats of specific violence. But, a gathering of people speaking out against the United States is a "protest." So, can you explain the difference and maybe give an example of what you are talking about, because I cannot think of an example that would not be a protest. Here is the definition of the word:

Protest: a statement or action expressing disapproval of or objection to something.

How does speaking out against the US not qualify as a protest.

 

[leibowde84]

I mean i can critic the democraty and regime in USA from my view , not as american citizen as you .

that's does not mean that USA don't have good level of democraty .

Did you read the article. American Citizens are free to speak out, or protests against the United States. Burning the flag in public is even protected.

 

[leibowde84]

I mean i can critic the democraty and regime in USA from my view , not as american citizen as you .

that's does not mean that USA don't have good level of democraty .

Where did you learn that American Citizens can't speak out against the United States? Can you provide some insight as to where you heard that, because it really does surprise me.

 

[cns3e]

When you attack someone's religion you are attacking them personally. Religion is part of identity.

 

[leibowde84]

When you attack someone's religion you are attacking them personally. Religion is part of identity.

You are incorrect, sir. Anyone can take anything personally, whether it actually was an attack on their person or not. Religion is a set of ideas, so, no matter how "personally" a person might take it, insults toward a set of ideas is not personal. If what you were saying was true, all ideas would be off limits to insults and critique, and we would stifle progress significantly. Again, people's identities include many ideas and beliefs apart from those related to the supernatural. If we put religion off limits then ideas related to philosophy, sociology, legality, etc. would all have to be off limits as well, as many people "identify" with ideas of this nature. Why are religious ideas so monumental that they must be completely protected?

 

[Martellus]

Over the centuries, the Muslim-rooted civilisation has always been antagonistic to the civilisation of Judeo-Christian roots. And such antagonism has perpetuated nowadays. It is no wonder that the ideals and concepts developed in the West face great resistance from the Greater Middle East. It seems that the Middle Eastern culture is the only culture able to resist the influence of Western culture around the world due to this historical antagonism. This is interestingly fascinating, IMHO.

 

[Smart_Guy]

It seems that the Middle Eastern culture is the only culture able to resist the influence of Western culture around the world due to this historical antagonism. This is interestingly fascinating, IMHO.

Although I agree the ME is the most resisting part of the world to the western culture, I think the ME still is not resisting per se. We still took the technologies, dressing style, events like birthday celebration, languages and some others. Governments don't seems to bather with it in concept.

I'm Middle Eastern yet I speak the language and I love it, I dress like westerners as seen on my avatar (look at that glove heh), but I don't celebrate western celebrations (I do wish back when some one wishes me of course). Other family members do the latter. Just yesterday my sister celebrated her son's happy birthday.

I think Japan is another example but with less resistance.

 

[Martellus]

Although I agree the ME is the most resisting part of the world to the western culture, I think the ME still is not resisting per se. We still took the technologies, dressing style, events like birthday celebration, languages and some others. Governments don't seems to bather with it in concept.

I'm Middle Eastern yet I speak the language and I love it, I dress like westerners as seen on my avatar (look at that glove heh), but I don't celebrate western celebrations (I do wish back when some one wishes me of course). Other family members do the latter. Just yesterday my sister celebrated her son's happy birthday.

I think Japan is another example but with less resistance.

I honestly see nothing wrong about the Middle Eastern peoples continuing to live according to their traditions. I have always wondered how the world would be like if every civilisation had developed independently. Many Westerners think that the ideas formulated in the West are infallible and must be imposed on all other civilisations of the world. I disagree with this view. I think that the civilisations can walk together without getting rid of their heterogeneity, which is something beautiful.

Unfortunately, terrorist acts erroneously using the Islam as a weapon such as that committed in Paris have solely raised "walls" between these two great civilisations. And the rising of Far-Right parties in Europe is a evidence that dark times are on the horizon.

 

[leibowde84]

I agree. I believe in free speech but insulting anyone is never ok. Neither is attacking someone who insulted you.
You reap what you sow, so if you purposely insult someone than you should be prepared for the consequences. That's not to say that anyone should have been killed over a depiction of Mohammed. However, what was their point in doing so but to intentionally **** people off?

Insulting a way of thinking (religion in this context) is not insulting a person. Sure, anything can be taken personally on a subjective basis, but if we are supposed to take that into account, everything would be off-limits, which would severely stifle progress of thought.

Religion should never be elevated above other lines of thinking or belief. Besides individual's connection with their religion, which could easily be said about other beliefs and lines of reasoning, there is absolutely no reason why our freedom of expression should be limited to not make people feel "offended."

 

[leibowde84]

​

[QUOTE="leibowde84, post: 4118043, member: 56049

Again, I find the problem entirely with those that react in a childish or violent way. These kinds of insults or criticisms will always be around, so each and every one of us has the responsibility to react well, no matter who it insults. Thick skin is a requirement to be considered an adult in this globalized world. Anyone without one should be rightly ridiculed as being childish.

I would argue that it's equally childish to purposely insult someone.[/QUOTE]
As childish as what? A person who murders in cold-blood because he thinks that it is unacceptable to challenge his or her religious beliefs?

I think I agree that insults are childish, but that aspect was far outweighed by the childish reaction of most of the Muslim world. They could have easilly ignored the entire thing and they would have been the "better man."

Just as an example, if one were truly disgusted with Islam and it's belief structure, should they be silenced, or should they be permitted to speak their mind, criticizing the religion, it's prophet, and it's idea of God? Eventhough I think a person like this might be very misinformed, we should all honor his right to speak out against Islam.

 

[oldbadger]

Just as an example, if one were truly disgusted with Islam and it's belief structure, should they be silenced, or should they be permitted to speak their mind, criticizing the religion, it's prophet, and it's idea of God? Eventhough I think a person like this might be very misinformed, we should all honor his right to speak out against Islam.

It's lovely to be back on this thread.
And I note that your religion has changed from Roman Catholic to Secular Christian. That's what a few days on RF can do to us.... amazing, isn't it?

So you're pushing for all this free speech still, I notice? Even, (as you yourself have written) if a person is misinformed.

But sadly (for your premise) The mayor of Paris does not agree with all expression and speech. She intends to sue Fox News because it said nasty things about her city!
So..... funny! You couldn't make it up, could you?

Mayor of Paris to Sue Fox News for Wildly Inaccurate .
www.alternet.org/mayor-paris-sue-fox-news-wildly-inaccurate-insulting-...
22 hours ago - The Mayor of Paris, France is threatening to sue Fox News over its claim that the city contains several “no-go zones” where non-Muslims cannot ...

 

[Martellus]

It's lovely to be back on this thread.
And I note that your religion has changed from Roman Catholic to Secular Christian. That's what a few days on RF can do to us.... amazing, isn't it?

So you're pushing for all this free speech still, I notice? Even, (as you yourself have written) if a person is misinformed.

But sadly (for your premise) The mayor of Paris does not agree with all expression and speech. She intends to sue Fox News because it said nasty things about her city!
So..... funny! You couldn't make it up, could you?

Mayor of Paris to Sue Fox News for Wildly Inaccurate .
www.alternet.org/mayor-paris-sue-fox-news-wildly-inaccurate-insulting-...
22 hours ago - The Mayor of Paris, France is threatening to sue Fox News over its claim that the city contains several “no-go zones” where non-Muslims cannot ...

Interestingly enough, the Fox News is absolutely right. Paris' Muslim ghettos and the infamous bidonvilles are the last place where any non-Muslim should go. These places are no longer under French sovereignty and Sharia is widely applied there.

 

[oldbadger]

Interestingly enough, the Fox News is absolutely right. Paris' Muslim ghettos and the infamous bidonvilles are the last place where any non-Muslim should go. These places are no longer under French sovereignty and Sharia is widely applied there.

Hi Martellus....

Fair enough...
I didn't know that Fox News is correct, I was just laughing at how 'Paris' and the French can make such a fuss for free-speech.... when it suits them!

In fact, many people are calling for free-speech and expression, not minding if it's insulting, taunting and nasty, so long as it's aimed at folks who they don't like.

Double-standards all the way!
Thankyou for adding to my knowledge about the Paris situation.

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

stop here

Really if someone or some people in USA start chanting ," Death to America " that would be considere as freedom of speech

or said he is with ISIS or Alqaeda crimes ? that could considere freedom of speech .


accuatly ,your ideal opinon is far than reality .

If they hate America for what they live
To go to Saudi Arabia
And fights America
Americaalsofought

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

you make me laugh by this question .

you suppose to give me a "serious" evidence support your claim about that Americans could chanting " death to America " or " Down with America" ...

spying privet calls is other issue .

1. State protection of national security
2. a person does not believe in the laws of America
He shouldgo
3. the laws of America the best of Islamic laws

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Hi Martellus....

Fair enough...
I didn't know that Fox News is correct, I was just laughing at how 'Paris' and the French can make such a fuss for free-speech.... when it suits them!

In fact, many people are calling for free-speech and expression, not minding if it's insulting, taunting and nasty, so long as it's aimed at folks who they don't like.

Double-standards all the way!
Thankyou for adding to my knowledge about the Paris situation.

A man with 13 women
Or picturea man carryinga sword
And steals a woman
This is thephoto of Mohamed
Why angry Muslims???

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Interestingly enough, the Fox News is absolutely right. Paris' Muslim ghettos and the infamous bidonvilles are the last place where any non-Muslim should go. These places are no longer under French sovereignty and Sharia is widely applied there.

Yes-.
I am تنباءت with this???
It'sa logical consequence
Islamic groupings meant a new system and a new law
Meansthat you areinyour countryyou will beslavesin the future
It will be the sword and gun on the thresholds of your homes
It is possible to declare an Islamic province of South France???

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

there is big different between ,"anti-america" speech and protesting , don't mix between two subjects .

comparing USA to other country is not logic , because every country had it's favors and it's negatives about democraty .

i am from Algeria

Do youhavethe Amazighnationalrights???
Why do you fight the Amazigh??
Algeria'sindigenousBerber??Note
The Algerians are notArabs???

 

[mahasn ebn sawresho]

Emigratingto America
And then they say that America is not valid
They say that Islamic laws are the best
Thisis Islam