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Why insult?

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Historical figure?


All men should respect to each other rules.


Insult isn't criticize



You can criticize and we can receive it but when someone insults to each other faith that means he don't like criticize or he can't do it. That means he wants to destroy it.
You are jumping around a bit there. I'll try to sort this out.

1. Muhammad is a "historical figure" because he was a political/religious figure in history that we know quite a bit about.

2. All men should respect the rules of others, but we have no obligation to follow them. I have no problem with Muslims following whatever rules they want, but I am not going to take it when they force their rules on me. If I want to draw a picture of any historical figure, God, or prophet, I should be allowed to do so without fear of judgment.

3.
What I should afraid of my life? If they could I wasn't be alive now. They can't enter Iran. Some of Iranian generals are in Iraq and Syria and they are in battle with Them like general Soleimani ( Soleymani) and they couldn't kill them. Now you think they can enter Iran?


I spoked alot about it. You can refer to previous pages
When I said "if a cartoon bothers you, speak about it," I was referring to the irrational and inexcusable reactions of some Muslims around the world. It is crazy to react to any picture with any kind of physical destruction.

Further, by "live and let live," I was not referring to physical assaults or invasions. I am talking about beliefs. If someone wants to make fun of my beliefs and my idea of what God wants, they are welcome to. I enjoy debating the topic even if they are rude. But the idea of violence or physical destruction would never even be considered by me. What were you referring to though? I'm curious.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
I remember very well when some Western people get hurt and reject some anti-USA sentence "down with USA" , or "USA is great Satan" .

they want us to accept their insult as freedom of speech .

btw i reject anti-USA and anti-Islam insult .
You do realize that all of those statements are legally acceptable in the United States right. You successfully refuted your own point. Freedom of Speech does in fact cover our right to insult the United States and Islam. Next.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
You do realize that all of those statements are legally acceptable in the United States right. You successfully refuted your own point. Freedom of Speech does in fact cover our right to insult the United States and Islam. Next.
Don't be like those idiots who argued that claiming the Holocaust didn't happen in the United States was illegal. That is perfectly legal as well, as is protected by freedom of speech.
 

Reza02

A Muslim young
but I am not going to take it when they force their rules on me.
Nobody forced you. My target was objection and express facts for people who don't know them.

If I want to draw a picture of any historical figure, God, or prophet, I should be allowed to do so without fear of judgment.
Problem is here. It wasn't just a picture. It was a WRONG caricature from a holy prophet who tried to peace between people who were killing their-self for worthless things
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
Nobody forced you. My target was objection and express facts for people who don't know them.


Problem is here. It wasn't just a picture. It was a WRONG caricature from a holy prophet who tried to peace between people who were killing their-self for worthless things
No, you are missing my point. Not drawing Muhammad is an Islamic Law. Since I am not a Muslim, there is no requirement to follow this rule. Only Muslims must live under this rule. To expect non-musims to do so is not realistic and is, in fact, pushing the rules of Islam on those that do not see it as valid.
 

Reza02

A Muslim young
Further, by "live and let live," I was not referring to physical assaults or invasions. I am talking about beliefs. If someone wants to make fun of my beliefs and my idea of what God wants, they are welcome to. I enjoy debating the topic even if they are rude. But the idea of violence or physical destruction would never even be considered by me. What were you referring to though? I'm curious.
He said "You know many psychopaths are near you,Save your life" And I felt you thought I answered him suchlike because I feared my life.
Anyway, Sorry.
First I thought he is wrong and I needed time for check his ideas but it was mostly (Not complete) true so I didn't answer him.
 

Reza02

A Muslim young
No, you are missing my point. Not drawing Muhammad is an Islamic Law. Since I am not a Muslim, there is no requirement to follow this rule. Only Muslims must live under this rule. To expect non-Muslims to do so is not realistic and is, in fact, pushing the rules of Islam on those that do not see it as valid.
I think it isn't only an Islamic law, It's nature rule. And I provided a motion "Let's follow our nature". Drawing a caricature of a holy man isn't a logical action. Let's think it was prophet Jesus in the caricature instead of prophet Muhammad, It isn't a logical offer, Is it?
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
He said "You know many psychopaths are near you,Save your life" And I felt you thought I answered him suchlike because I feared my life.
Anyway, Sorry.
First I thought he is wrong and I needed time for check his ideas but it was mostly (Not complete) true so I didn't answer him.
Nothing wrong with that. And, I hope you know that my intention is certainly not to offend you in any way. I love debating these topics, and I think it is more and more important every day.
 

Smart_Guy

...
Premium Member
Your speech is logical but I feel misunderstanding. It's apper you thought I taked the side with extremist terrorists, But it's wrong. I'm opposed of extremism and terrorism.
I think the extremist ISIS terrorists aren't part of Islam just as the extremist groups of Christians aren't part of Christianity.
And I said actions of those terrorists shoudn't lead for caricature of the Prophet of 1.5 billion Muslims.

Sorry, I didn't mean you by my post, I was speaking generally about the main issue this thread is based on.

I apologize.
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
There is a significant difference among Muslims in Europe and America
And among Christians in the Middle East
1-Christians in the Middle East (Greek walashoreyeen and Aramean Syriac and Coptic Christians and Jews and the Hebrew and Amazigh and Berber)
2. the indigenous population of the country
3. Islam entered into those countries and was
4. Islam destroyed all indigenous nationalities
5. Islam a tribute when the lstamer Iraq, Egypt, Syria, Lebanon, Palestine, Libya and Algeria
6. Islam announced name (dhimmi) this is the criterion of distinction and discrimination and persecution
7. the Christians in the Middle East in the long history of Islamic persecution were
8. the equality is not valid
9. in the nineteenth century the Eastern Christians managed to live in peace
10. Why is the spread of Arabic nationalism ideology
12. the concept of education (the Loyalists) in Islam
13. This Islamic education is contrary to all humanitarian laws
14. the headers important points
14. so don't they boast of equality for Christians
15. document age
Written byOmar Ibn Al-Khattab
16. are the most hated and abuses of history documents
17. the question that Christians live in peace and equality in Islamic States insolently
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
As soon as the Islamic persecution of Christians of the East and the written history
1. the massacres of Armenians which is an Islamic Turkish massacres at the end of World War I
2. where more than one million Christian Armenians and Assyrians and Syriac and Chaldean
And a Jew
Are displace thousands village and robbed of their money and their wives
3. vast land has been cleared and the Christian presence including
4. I speak here of complete knowledge
5. I'm the events also
6. the massacres of Assyrians in Iraqi city of SMIL
The Iraqi Prime Minister in the reign of Bakr Sidqi
The slaughter and abandonment of thousands of Assyrians and slaughtered the Islamic way in 1936
7. in 1948, the Assyrians were massacred the currents on the outskirts of the northern Iraqi city of Mosul
8. looting funds Christians of all times
9. another campaign to displace the unfair and Islam-led Islamists is the last city of Mosul
10. This is the date the written near
11. run history forgotten yet conveys fear and Islamic persecution
12. I had a book called Christians in the era of the Abbasid Caliphate
13. in brief, the book read the following words
14 (Christian put a Bell on his neck when walking down the street)
This meansequatedwith donkeys
15. This is the case of the native Eastern Christians
16. I only speak from what I know
17. the Coptic Egyptians also
But I read them only
18. the Coptic can expose true acts of Muslims with them better than me
And also the Syrian Christian
19. Lebanon was eliminated after the Taif Agreement and plundered Lebanon discredited the Christian leadership and funds Palestinian oil
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
Muslims in Europe (France-Germany-England and others)
1. Muslims are not from the natives
Most Muslims who emigrated to these countries and where they increased
2. Muslims in Europe have full native rights
3. Europe paying the price for its leniency with Muslims today
4. Muslims in Europe are moving according to the rules of their religion, Islamic
5. refuse to integrate with the community
6. declare night and day that eventually the best of Europe all
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
The charges against Mohamed and other
1. Drawing art of human and social
2. art moves the word to the image
3. the art of drawing talent from God
4. the art of drawing has the freedom to draw all things
5. to draw the body of woman
7. to draw the body of man
8. that paints Jesus as written in the Bible
9. to draw Muhammad as written in the Qur'an and hadiths Mohammedia
10. the art of prevention will not be drawing Mohammed with 13 women
11. This is not an assault on Islam that freedom of the press and art
12. no right of Muslims in Europe from intimidating the world
13. If this freedom is accepted for him to return to Saudi Arabia where he was buried, Mohammad
14. are there to do whatever he wants
15. a Muslim in Europe conveys intellectual dentistry
16. permission here show the seriousness of Islam
17. France and the Government of the day is on the side of the Muslims
18. terrorism is written in the Koran and the teachings of the Koran
19. the Muslim State rejected all teachings of the Koran terrorist
20. the right to social security protection, France
21. the right of France to protect intellectual freedom
22. all ideologies can be criticised
23. Islam from within those ideologies
24. the abolition of the teachings of the Koran became the duty of the global human
 

mahasn ebn sawresho

Well-Known Member
Muslims inEuropeto circumventthelaws of those countries
1. is called his wife before the law
2. marry other
3. it remains with the old wife
4. have children
Works on human development in Europe and other
5. the Muslim mentality is a mentality of citizenship
6. it thinks and acts of the Prophet
7. who married 13
8. in Europe and other uses 0 Tekke)
Means the subcontracted hiding in other words lying
9. Islam my friend
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
You do realize that all of those statements are legally acceptable in the United States right. You successfully refuted your own point. Freedom of Speech does in fact cover our right to insult the United States and Islam. Next.
stop here

Really if someone or some people in USA start chanting ," Death to America " that would be considere as freedom of speech

or said he is with ISIS or Alqaeda crimes ? that could considere freedom of speech .


accuatly ,your ideal opinon is far than reality .
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
stop here

Really if someone or some people in USA start chanting ," Death to America " that would be considere as freedom of speech

or said he is with ISIS or Alqaeda crimes ? that could considere freedom of speech .


accuatly ,your ideal opinon is far than reality .
I'm not sure where you are getting your information, but you can certainly say "down with America" in my country. People literally do it every day. There is a pretty large group in this country that is still in the KKK. They call themselves a different name, but the ideology is still the same. They actually have politicians speak at their events. That is most certainly protected, and I'm glad that it is. I hate the KKK more than anything, but I will certainly fight for their right to express their views. Do you live in the USA? If not, who told you that you were not aloud to say things like this?

In regards to pledging allegance to terrorists, that is another story, as terrorism is illegal (which includes supporting them in any way). There are limits to even being arrested for this though. The burden of proof is on the State to figure out how much you were supporting them. Usually,

Both of these examples are very different than simply poking fun at religious beliefs, as ideas should always be able to be challenged, but I think a lot of people fail to dothe research to see how far our freedom of expression really covers. You should look into it. It's interesting stuff, and there is a ton of great case law to read to really get your mind around it.
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
I'm not sure where you are getting your "facts," but you can certainly say "down with America" in my country. People literally do it every day. That is most certainly protected, and I'm glad that it is. Do you have any evidence to support this outlandish claim?

In regards to pledging allegance to terrorists, that is another story, as terrorism is illegal (which includes supporting them in any way). There are limits to even being arrested for this though. The burden of proof is on the State to figure out how much you were supporting them. Usually,

Both of these examples

you make me laugh by this question .

you suppose to give me a "serious" evidence support your claim about that Americans could chanting " death to America " or " Down with America" ...

spying privet calls is other issue .
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
you make me laugh by this question .

you suppose to give me a "serious" evidence support your claim about that Americans could chanting " death to America " or " Down with America" ...

spying privet calls is other issue .

Here is a great example. The burning of the American Flag as a political statement against the United States is protected under the 1st Amendment. Just keep in mind that the United States is very different than other Western countries like the UK, France, Germany, etc. Our freedom of expression stretches far longer than in those countries.

There are people who want to make protests against the United States illegal, but it will never happen because of the 1st Amendment. And that makes me proud to be an American. We allow insults to even ourselves and our leaders, and even those leaders insulted personally refuse to make it illegal.

There are plenty of other examples. Just look up 1st Amendment cases on Google.

Senate Rejects Flag Desecration Amendment
The Senate rejected by a single vote yesterday an effort to amend the Constitution to allow Congress to ban desecration of the American flag, after a two-day debate freighted with political calculations and sharp disputes over the limits of free speech.

The 66 to 34 vote fell just short of the two-thirds majority required to approve a constitutional amendment and submit it to the states for ratification. It marked the latest setback for congressional attempts to supersede Supreme Court decisions in 1989 and 1990. Justices narrowly ruled that burning and other desecrations of the flag are protected as free speech under the First Amendment.

As expected, three Republicans -- Robert F. Bennett (Utah), Lincoln D. Chafee(R.I.) and Mitch McConnell (Ky.) -- voted against the amendment. Fourteen Democrats voted for it. The House approved the measure 286 to 130 last year.

GOP congressional leaders have offered up several measures in recent weeks that are important to their conservative political base -- including an amendment banning same-sex marriage and further cuts in the estate tax -- culminating with yesterday's vote on flag burning.

Polls show that most Americans want flag desecration outlawed, and the amendment's proponents said they were trying to stop justices from thwarting the public's will. They said that burning a U.S. flag in public -- while rare these days -- is a reprehensible insult to the nation's founders and a dishonor to the Americans who died fighting tyranny.

The amendment's opponents agreed that flag burning is repugnant, but argued that U.S. troops died to preserve freedoms that include controversial political statements.

Flag burning "is obscene, painful and unpatriotic," Sen. Daniel K. Inouye (D-Hawaii), who lost an arm in World War II, said in a floor speech yesterday. "But I believe Americans gave their lives in the many wars to make certain that all Americans have a right to express themselves -- even those who harbor hateful thoughts."

Sen. Dianne Feinstein (D-Calif.) summarized the proponents' views. The flag's special symbolic status, she said, makes its desecration different from holding a sign denouncing the president. Burning an American flag in anger, she said, is "conduct, not speech" because the flag is "the symbol of our democracy, our shared values, our commitment to justice, our remembrance to those who have sacrificed to defend these principles."

Behind the constitutional rhetoric were cold political considerations. Republicans are eager to energize conservative voters this fall, and the flag initiative -- even if doomed to fail -- is seen as a sure-fire way to inspire them, especially a week before Independence Day.

The vote is the closest that advocates have come to banning flag desecration in many years of trying. In 2000, the Senate fell four votes short, and supporters had hoped the GOP's 55 to 44 majority -- there is one independent, James M. Jeffords (Vt.) -- would put them over the top this year.

The GOP-controlled House has repeatedly approved the amendment by wide margins, and advocates say they could have handily obtained ratification by three-quarters of the states if the Senate had followed suit.

The debate divided senators along unusual lines. Opposing the amendment was McConnell, the Senate's second-ranking GOP leader, and Bennett, a quiet, mainstream Republican. Democratic supporters includedMinority Leader Harry M. Reid (Nev.) and Sen. Evan Bayh (Ind.), a presidential hopeful. Maryland's Democratic senators voted against the amendment and Virginia's Republican senators voted for it.

The amendment's chief sponsor, Sen. Orrin G. Hatch (R-Utah), disputed assertions that the measure was politically motivated and was an unwise use of the Senate's time in the face of war in Iraq, high gasoline prices and a growing federal deficit.

"Fifty state legislatures have called on us to pass this amendment," Hatch told colleagues.

He and his allies had tried for days to pick up one more vote. But virtually all senators had stated their positions publicly, making efforts at negotiation or persuasion fruitless.

The Constitution was last amended -- for the 27th time -- in 1992, when the states belatedly ratified a 1789 bid by Congress to regulate lawmakers' pay increases.

Overturning a Texas law in 1989, the Supreme Court ruled 5 to 4 that burning an American flag in protest is a form of political speech protected under the First Amendment. Congress later passed a federal anti-flag-desecration law, and the high court invalidated it on the same grounds.

Ever since, lawmakers have debated whether flag burning is an unsavory cost of political freedom or something more akin to intolerable hate speech or monument defacement.

"All rights enshrined in the Constitution have certain limits," said Sen. Mel Martinez (R-Fla.). "There is no such thing as unlimited rights. Although we treasure and value our right of free speech . . . we protect our national monuments," including the flag.

But Russell Feingold (D-Wis.) said Congress must "defend the right of all Americans to express their views about their government, however hateful or spiteful or disrespectful those views may be."

The proposed amendment said simply: "The Congress shall have power to prohibit the physical desecration of the flag of the United States."

Before the final tally, the Senate voted 64 to 36 to reject an alternative measure designed to provide political cover for those who opposed Hatch's legislation. The measure -- a proposed statute, rather than constitutional amendment -- was offered by Sen. Richard J. Durbin (D-Ill.) and was strongly endorsed by Sen. Hillary Rodham Clinton (D-N.Y.), a possible presidential candidate who has sought a middle ground in the flag-burning debate.

The proposal would have outlawed flag desecration if the perpetrators were also damaging federal property, trying to incite violence or trying to intimidate someone. Opponents called Durbin's measure a political fig leaf that the Supreme Court would rule unconstitutional.

Hours before the votes were taken, Sen. George Allen (R-Va.) thrust the issue into his reelection campaign. Noting that Democratic challenger James Webb had said he opposed the amendment, Allen's campaign issued a press release linking Webb to Sens. John F. Kerry and Edward M. Kennedy of Massachusetts, who voted against the amendment. The release said Webb is "totally beholden to the liberal Washington senators" who backed him in this month's primary.
 

leibowde84

Veteran Member
you make me laugh by this question .

you suppose to give me a "serious" evidence support your claim about that Americans could chanting " death to America " or " Down with America" ...

spying privet calls is other issue .
Why does the question make you laugh? There is a plethora of articles about the courts refusing to arrest those who protest against the United States. As long as specific threats are not involved, it is protected speech. Did you not know that the United States protects expression more than any other country in the world? Where are you from?
 

Godobeyer

the word "Islam" means "submission" to God
Premium Member
Why does the question make you laugh? There is a plethora of articles about the courts refusing to arrest those who protest against the United States. As long as specific threats are not involved, it is protected speech. Did you not know that the United States protects expression more than any other country in the world? Where are you from?
there is big different between ,"anti-america" speech and protesting , don't mix between two subjects .

comparing USA to other country is not logic , because every country had it's favors and it's negatives about democraty .

i am from Algeria
 
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