Why insult?

[Trolle]

To suggest that they had no purpose in publishing their piece other than to insult some Muslims strikes me as spin on your part. I strongly suspect that you really don't know what you're claiming to know: That is, you don't know what their motives were.

I read about their past issues depicting Mohammed and Islam and the only reason I could see why they were doing it was to provoke radical Muslims. This of course is just my opinion. The co-founder of the magazine told the editor that he was going too far and should hold back from publishing the cartoon. I respect his decision to do so based on our right to free speech, but again, I don't see the point of provoking anger or the unnecessary retaliation that it caused.

 

[Trolle]

Just so you know, insult is created in the mind of the insulted. This isn't to say that someone may not take advantage of this reaction and throw out a barb or two, but its genesis still lies within the insulted. Don't want to be insulted or offended, then stop caring about the remark. Can't do that? then perhaps therapy may be in order. One of Mad Magazine's principle features was to purposely satirize others, some of whom took it as an insult, and others putting it in perspective and letting it roll off their backs. So, we know an "insult" can be ignored. And, if you can't cope with an "insult" then try taking the steam out of it by ignoring it. Eventually, as such "insults" loose there power to generate a reaction they will disappear.

No disagreement here. I personally don't care what people think or say about me but it's safe to say that most people do care. It's just I don't see the need to intentionally make fun of people. It's like when a group of kids make fun of another kid because he looks funny or doesn't dress right, etc. Most people get a laugh out of it but it sure as hell isn't funny to the kid that's getting made fun of. Would you tell that kid to suck it up and that he should have thicker skin? I guess that's one lesson he could learn but I believe it would be better if people didn't purposely attack others just because they can.

 

[columbus]

No, but deliberately pissing off people for no reason is.

It is not for no reason.
From boko haram to Muslims using their freedom of speech to oppose freedom of speech, to tyrannical governments, there is plenty to criticize about Islamic culture.

Fix that sort of thing and the satire will end.

Tom

 

[Lyndon]

And nothing but praise to give to Western/American culture.........

 

[Nakosis]

I just have this to say,

Jesus taught forgiveness, not terrorism.

No excuse for retaliation by anyone.

 

[Lyndon]

And yet retaliation against the Terrorists is what everyone's asking for now, it goes both ways.

 

[Trolle]

It is not for no reason.
From boko haram to Muslims using their freedom of speech to oppose freedom of speech, to tyrannical governments, there is plenty to criticize about Islamic culture.

Fix that sort of thing and the satire will end.

Tom

I see nothing wrong with criticising or condemning the actions of others but I don't see this as what Charlie H. was trying to do. It seems to me that they were only looking to be provocative.

 

[Skwim]

No disagreement here. I personally don't care what people think or say about me but it's safe to say that most people do care. It's just I don't see the need to intentionally make fun of people. It's like when a group of kids make fun of another kid because he looks funny or doesn't dress right, etc. Most people get a laugh out of it but it sure as hell isn't funny to the kid that's getting made fun of. Would you tell that kid to suck it up and that he should have thicker skin? I guess that's one lesson he could learn but I believe it would be better if people didn't purposely attack others just because they can.

I don't believe it's "like when a group of kids make fun of another kid." Not having developed an adult grasp on their emotions and reactions, children will almost invariably take offense at anything that is in the least disparaging. Hopefully, by the time they reach adulthood they will have put such things in perspective and get on with their lives with a knowing smile on their face. Sadly enough, many do not.

Come over here
and say that!​

 

[Lyndon]

The Charlie Hebdo lot don't seem like very nice guys but then neither do the terrorists, by how many times worse....

The really childish people are the ones that don't want to or refuse to get along with different cultures they are living with.

 

[Nakosis]

And yet retaliation against the Terrorists is what everyone's asking for now, it goes both ways.

No, but a nation has a right to try to protect its citizens don't you think. Is not this what we want of our governments?

I don't want retaliation, but terrorist acts remains a threat that has to be dealt with.
How do you think a government should deal with this?

 

[Lyndon]

I don't run a government so my opinion doesn't count!!

 

[Nakosis]

Yes, an individual can't be insulted unless they themselves allow it. Perhaps it'd be helpful if religions taught that.

 

[columbus]

I see nothing wrong with criticising or condemning the actions of others but I don't see this as what Charlie H. was trying to do. It seems to me that they were only looking to be provocative.

And they were going out of business.

Even the French weren't quite rude sarcastic and arrogant enough to support them. Now, fundamentalist Muslims have helped them sell 3,000,000 copies when last month they could barely sell 30,000.

Tom

 

[columbus]

And nothing but praise to give to Western/American culture.........

You must not pay any attention to western/ USA media.

The culture wars are raging in a way that Muslims in Muslim places apparently couldn't handle.

Tom

 

[Lyndon]

Actually in truth I think Western Culture like in France or America, or Muslim culture, like in Iran or Indonesia, have about the same level of problems for the average citizen, the problem is the media on both sides focuses on the worst aspects of the other culture and people, and people become biased for no good reason, you don't think Muslims in their countries are not getting constant stories about child molesters, gang warfare, internet porn, and inequality between the rich and poor in our countries on their media. Most Americans have a really hard time putting themselves in someone elses shoes and seeing how someone else might see the life they are living, to many Muslims, we are Godless heathens, in a culture run by decadence etc etc etc

 

[leibowde84]

I agree. I believe in free speech but insulting anyone is never ok. Neither is attacking someone who insulted you.
You reap what you sow, so if you purposely insult someone than you should be prepared for the consequences. That's not to say that anyone should have been killed over a depiction of Mohammed. However, what was their point in doing so but to intentionally **** people off?

That is the thing, you should most certainly be able to insult people's views and beliefs without expecting any kind of violent reaction. Personal insults are another story, but that is not what we are discussing. And, btw, just because someone might think the cartoon was personally insulting, that doesn't make it rational to think so. A personal insult is directed at a specific person. An insult of a prophet is certainly not. They might take it personally, but that is on them. We need to be free to attack ideas and beliefs so that we can progress as a global society.

 

[Lyndon]

Je ne suis pas Charlie: Why '********' can't be Heroes –


Opinion –


ABC Religion & Ethics

(Australian Broadcasting Corporation)

 

[Rick O'Shez]

No, but a nation has a right to try to protect its citizens don't you think. Is not this what we want of our governments?

Absolutely. That's arguably a governments most important role.

 

[Trolle]

That is the thing, you should most certainly be able to insult people's views and beliefs without expecting any kind of violent reaction. Personal insults are another story, but that is not what we are discussing. And, btw, just because someone might think the cartoon was personally insulting, that doesn't make it rational to think so. A personal insult is directed at a specific person. An insult of a prophet is certainly not. They might take it personally, but that is on them. We need to be free to attack ideas and beliefs so that we can progress as a global society.

Yes, everyone should be able to insult other's views and beliefs without violent reaction, but let's face it, there are certain things that people know are off limits. Would it not be foolish to insult someone's spouse or loved one and not expect a reaction from them. You state that we need to be free to attack ideas and beliefs so that we can progress as a society and I couldn't agree more. However, I don't see where the people at Charlie Hebdo were criticizing a particular view or idea, they were intentionally provoking a group of people that were itching for a reason to use their religion to justify a violent response. My point is, just as people shouldn't react violently to things that upset them, I don't think that people should go out of their way to provoke or insult people just because they can.

 

[columbus]

Would it not be foolish to insult someone's spouse or loved one and not expect a reaction from them.

From Amedinhjad to the pope to RF members, religious people feel free to insult and lie about me, a gay man, with impunity.

Why is finding the shoe on the other foot such a problem?

Tom