Why is Confidence in Organized Religion At All Time Low?

[LASTINGLIGHT]

I personally believe that we are all becoming more aware of what is in scripture, and we are questioning it more than ever, we are realizing that it is more metaphorical and not literal, we also are beginning to see that the concept of a god is, well, ridiculers, ..........so we are looking for something else that is deeper than mere scripture, with a god that just wants his own way. Many are Waking up, and realizing that we are all One, that we are not divided, and that the concept of god has done nothing more than divided us, so yea, I think we are becoming more aware and we are questioning more than ever, we have a long way to go, but we will only get there when we drop the old backward thinking of a god in the sky, the words of John Lennon, "imagine no heaven" is becoming true, for we are realizing that heaven is here and NOW.

We come from the all, we exist in the all, and we go back to the all. It is so simple.

"The kingdom of the Father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it."
SOME GUY CALLED JESUS

 

[psychoslice]

We come from the all, we exist in the all, and we go back to the all. It is so simple.

"The kingdom of the Father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it."
SOME GUY CALLED JESUS

Right on.

 

[LASTINGLIGHT]

I was speaking to an older man who told me that his grandson had attended a Baptist church all his life and grew up attending it. He was in his early twenties. He got interested in the Bible, because he had never read the Bible before. He simply depended on the preachers sermons for his knowlege of his own beliefs. After reading the NT he became an atheist. He found out that things he had been told from the pulpit were not in the Bible, or were taken out of context in order to emphasize the beliefs of each preacher. People are becoming more educated, and more willing to challenge and research what others tell them.

 

[Looncall]

We come from the all, we exist in the all, and we go back to the all. It is so simple.

"The kingdom of the Father is spread out upon the earth, and men do not see it."
SOME GUY CALLED JESUS

Deepity. Trivial. Nothing follows from this, even though it sounds impressive.

 

[LASTINGLIGHT]

Deepity. Trivial. Nothing follows from this, even though it sounds impressive.

You are already where you want to be. You just don't know it. Or do you.

 

[psychoslice]

I was speaking to an older man who told me that his grandson had attended a Baptist church all his life and grew up attending it. He was in his early twenties. He got interested in the Bible, because he had never read the Bible before. He simply depended on the preachers sermons for his knowlege of his own beliefs. After reading the NT he became an atheist. He found out that things he had been told from the pulpit were not in the Bible, or were taken out of context in order to emphasize the beliefs of each preacher. People are becoming more educated, and more willing to challenge and research what others tell them.

Yep, we are waking up at last.

 

[Gary Sheldrake]

Yeah but it also says this -

So compared to the growth of religion, the unaffiliated will actually be in decline. Atleast that's what I got from it, Am I wrong?

The chart shows the followers of two illiterate iron age men from the middle east growing steadily. Fascinating and terrifying.

 

[JayJayDee]

Two reasons as jaeger mentioned.....

1) the great apostasy that was foretold to take place before Christ's return. (2 Thess 2:3, 8-12)

2) the destruction of Babylon the great, the devil's world empire of religion based on the teachings of ancient Babylon. (Rev 18:4, 5)

ALL false religion will go down and the majority of people will not give a hoot. For many it will be good riddance. But what will take its place is even more terrifying that any extremist group could unleash on the world....Total control over our lives......ushered in, not by force, but by stealth. Every human freedom ever won, will be lost. Unless you have their 'stamp' of approval, you will not be entitled to any commodity or service. They will dictate your every move. All the things they need to accomplish their ends are already in place. Big Brother is just waiting for the right time to act. No one apparently notices how dependent we have all become on the system to supply our food, water, clothing, fuel and and power. Imagine life without those things! Imagine not being able to buy or sell without their owning your forced allegiance. Have we not noticed how militarised our police force has become? The enforcers have been given bigger teeth.

The Bible foretells a world government, (over a hundred years in the making) taking over control of the nations under the auspices of being able to deliver world "peace and security" (1 Thess 5:3).....it will, however deliver the exact opposite, but too late to change the law everyone thinks they signed up for.

The Bible tells us the outcome as well...that is the "good news of God's kingdom" that Jesus asked us to tell to the world. (Matt 24:14) But for the most part, it is falling on deaf ears as he said it would. (Matt 24:36-39)

The kingdom Jesus told us to pray for, will "come" with devastating consequences for those have ignored God's message. (Dan 2:44; 2 Thess 1:6-9) But a wonderful outcome for those who see past what is coming and have separated themselves from this world and are NO part of it. (John 17:16)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

The chart shows the followers of two illiterate iron age men from the middle east growing steadily. Fascinating and terrifying.

Jesus and Muhammed both allegedly lived after the iron age. And neither one seemed illiterate, assuming they existed as portrayed.

 

[Gary Sheldrake]

Jesus and Muhammed both allegedly lived after the iron age. And neither one seemed illiterate, assuming they existed as portrayed.

Good Afternoon Shadow Wolf. There are no fixed start and stop dates for many ages, such as the Iron Age. Both men lived in times that generally fell within what is generally considered the Iron Age, although the Iron Age does in fact have different timespans within different cultures, such as China, India, Europe and the Near East. With regards to the literacy of both men, historians and scholars tend to go with probabilities. It was not common for people from the backgrounds of either of these two men to be able to read and write, so while it is possible that they were literate, it is broadly thought to be highly unlikely. Of Jesus and the Apostles, it is widely thought that only Matthew could read and write, because he had been a tax collector. It should also be mentioned that while Matthew could probably read and write, the author of the Gospel of Matthew was probably not Matthew the Apostle. The content of that Gospel reveals that the author had a profound lack of knowledge of Jewish customs and the history of Judea at the time of Jesus. He was probably a Greek speaking Hellenistic writer from around the year 70 in the Common Era.

All the best,
Gary

 

[LASTINGLIGHT]

Good Afternoon Shadow Wolf. There are no fixed start and stop dates for many ages, such as the Iron Age. Both men lived in times that generally fell within what is generally considered the Iron Age, although the Iron Age does in fact have different timespans within different cultures, such as China, India, Europe and the Near East. With regards to the literacy of both men, historians and scholars tend to go with probabilities. It was not common for people from the backgrounds of either of these two men to be able to read and write, so while it is possible that they were literate, it is broadly thought to be highly unlikely. Of Jesus and the Apostles, it is widely thought that only Matthew could read and write, because he had been a tax collector. It should also be mentioned that while Matthew could probably read and write, the author of the Gospel of Matthew was probably not Matthew the Apostle. The content of that Gospel reveals that the author had a profound lack of knowledge of Jewish customs and the history of Judea at the time of Jesus. He was probably a Greek speaking Hellenistic writer from around the year 70 in the Common Era.

All the best,
Gary

"He was probably a Greek speaking Hellenistic writer from around the year 70 in the Common Era."

Thats exactly right. Most people on these forums don't even know what a Hellenistic Jew is. Nice to see another poster who does research instead of just spouting out some religious dogma their church tells them.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

There are no fixed start and stop dates for many ages, such as the Iron Age. Both men lived in times that generally fell within what is generally considered the Iron Age,

Assuming they were real, they lived hundreds of years after the end of what is generally considered the end of the iron age. It is generally considered that the Iron Age was over by the time of the onset of Hellenism and the Roman Empire, and Jesus was born under the rule of the Roman Empire.
And how can it be approached as to who among the apostles were literate or not when there are no indications they were real? And by "two men from the Middle East," we are discussing Jesus and Muhammed, two men who, according to their respective texts, were not illiterate. But that assumes they even existed in the first place.

 

[LuisDantas]

One reason why religion is seen without affection these days may be what is implied in some recent responses to threads: because for many people religion is not something to value or respect, but rather a manipulative force that labels people without much regard for who they are.

 

[Gary Sheldrake]

Assuming they were real, they lived hundreds of years after the end of what is generally considered the end of the iron age. It is generally considered that the Iron Age was over by the time of the onset of Hellenism and the Roman Empire, and Jesus was born under the rule of the Roman Empire.
And how can it be approached as to who among the apostles were literate or not when there are no indications they were real? And by "two men from the Middle East," we are discussing Jesus and Muhammed, two men who, according to their respective texts, were not illiterate. But that assumes they even existed in the first place.

 

[leibowde84]

An increase in information, education and exposure means people think for themselves instead of following leaders. Also because of the media, any fallibility in the leadership is put in front of our faces.

I think the future of spirituality is more and more going to be people creating their own personal do-it-yourself religion where they follow their own views on all the many issues without much of a concern for being involved with any established formally defined religion.

And I think that would be a marvelous thing!!

 

[Gary Sheldrake]

Good Afternoon again Shadow Wolf: Speculation as to the literacy of Jesus and the Apostles is generally based on what is known about the times and cultures they lived in, coupled with the writings we have available. for instance, among the Jews of Jesus' time, literacy was mostly the craft of the priest class. A handyman such as Jesus would not have known how to read or write, and probably no one in the small village of a few hundred people that he came from could. As to the issue regarding whether or not these men existed, it is the consensus of most historians that they did in fact exist, and there are non-religious attestations to this, such as the writings of Josephus in the case of Jesus of Nazareth. Now, the question as to whether one of them was God and the other was a Prophet, well, that's where things start to get a little shaky with regard proof. I deal in probabilities. The former is highly probable and the latter is highly improbable. I am familiar with theories that Jesus of Nazareth was a purely fictional character, and one account of how he was a code name among Jewish trippers for psychedelic mushrooms, but this is probably quackery. He probably existed. He probably was not a permutation of the God of Abraham in human form.

As for how it can be approached that the Apostles couldn't read or write, the accounts of their backgrounds would place them (with the exception of Matthew) in the illiterate class. Access to books took money and privilege. Lots of it. None of these men had money. They had a very minimal existence.

You made reference to their respective texts, and I am unaware of any texts ascribed to Jesus of Nazareth. If you are referring to the New Testament, I am unaware that there are any books or collection of letters in it that were written by anyone who ever met Jesus. The Letters of Peter are thought to have been written on his behalf. Most of the New Testament is the work of Paul of Tarsus, who never met Jesus, his follower Luke, who never met Jesus, the authors of Matthew, Mark and John are not thought to have known Jesus. They are works written in the traditions of Matthew, Mark and John, which was a common literary device of the time. What New Testament author knew Jesus, and what part of the New Testament did Jesus write?


All the best,
Gary

 

[leibowde84]

Good Afternoon again Shadow Wolf: Speculation as to the literacy of Jesus and the Apostles is generally based on what is known about the times and cultures they lived in, coupled with the writings we have available. for instance, among the Jews of Jesus' time, literacy was mostly the craft of the priest class. A handyman such as Jesus would not have known how to read or write, and probably no one in the small village of a few hundred people that he came from could. As to the issue regarding whether or not these men existed, it is the consensus of most historians that they did in fact exist, and there are non-religious attestations to this, such as the writings of Josephus in the case of Jesus of Nazareth. Now, the question as to whether one of them was God and the other was a Prophet, well, that's where things start to get a little shaky with regard proof. I deal in probabilities. The former is highly probable and the latter is highly improbable. I am familiar with theories that Jesus of Nazareth was a purely fictional character, and one account of how he was a code name among Jewish trippers for psychedelic mushrooms, but this is probably quackery. He probably existed. He probably was not a permutation of the God of Abraham in human form.

As for how it can be approached that the Apostles couldn't read or write, the accounts of their backgrounds would place them (with the exception of Matthew) in the illiterate class. Access to books took money and privilege. Lots of it. None of these men had money. They had a very minimal existence.

You made reference to their respective texts, and I am unaware of any texts ascribed to Jesus of Nazareth. If you are referring to the New Testament, I am unaware that there are any books or collection of letters in it that were written by anyone who ever met Jesus. The Letters of Peter are thought to have been written on his behalf. Most of the New Testament is the work of Paul of Tarsus, who never met Jesus, his follower Luke, who never met Jesus, the authors of Matthew, Mark and John are not thought to have known Jesus. They are works written in the traditions of Matthew, Mark and John, which was a common literary device of the time. What New Testament author knew Jesus, and what part of the New Testament did Jesus write?


All the best,
Gary

You are a king amongst men, my man ... unbelievably terrific explanation!! Respectful too. Hat is off.

 

[Gary Sheldrake]

You are a king amongst men, my man ... unbelievably terrific explanation!! Respectful too. Hat is off.

Thank you Leibowde - I had been wondering if I was coming off to strong. Sometimes it's hard to detect the demeanor of the person writing when we can't hear one another's voices, and the last thing I want to do is sound argumentative. Thanks again.

 

[leibowde84]

Thank you Leibowde - I had been wondering if I was coming off to strong. Sometimes it's hard to detect the demeanor of the person writing when we can't hear one another's voices, and the last thing I want to do is sound argumentative. Thanks again.

You came off with respectful confidence and provided a very reasoned argument with impreasive supporting evidence and explained it well. Doesn't get too much better than that, right?

 

[Thana]

About whether or not Jesus was literate -

Luke 4:17 - "And there was handed to Him [the roll of] the book of the prophet Isaiah. He opened (unrolled) the book and found the place where it was written,"

John 8:7-8 - "And as they continued to ask him, he stood up and said to them, “Let him who is without sin among you be the first to throw a stone at her.” And once more he bent down and wrote on the ground." (Although not in the earlier manuscripts apparently)