Why is hell eternal?

[Muffled]

That depends upon who you ask. The Bible doesn't teach hell, so from the Bible's perspective there is no such thing as hell. The Bible teaches total destruction which is everlasting. It's death. No torment. You're just dead.

I believe the Bible teaches Hell so I believe you are interpreting things from man's viewpoint instead of God's viewpoint.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Yes, i get it that satan can masquerade the true light. He can decieve. But the bible says to test the spirits to see whether they come from God.

Ok, can satan give peace, joy and a sense of indescribable love that many near death experiencers have?

Goodness, yes! 2 Corinthians 11:12-15. (Vs.14)

If he couldn’t give people a good feeling, do you think he could deceive, as Revelation 12:9 says, “the entire Earth”?

 

[Prometheus85]

I dont believe there all lying

And i will never believe that either.

Congratulations you’re prone to conformation bias! when it doesn't fit your viewpoint, it can be very easily dismissed. If it does fit your viewpoint, it's a perfect example of that viewpoint applying to real people in the real world. Hence how you rush to hasty generalizations based on your experience and others without any statistical evidence.

 

[GODbeMERCIFULtoMEaSINNER]

Oh wait a minute, theres one problem with your analogy here.

The payment is not trillions, its infinitum or unlimited (e.g. forever).

Did jesus pay for our sin by being tortured forever? Because

Maybe this will answer your question.

TITLE: In what way does sin appear to be infinite, and in what way does it not
SCRIPTURE READING: all of PSALM 25
SCRIPTURE TEXT: Psalms 25:11 "For thy name's sake, O LORD, pardon mine iniquity; FOR IT IS GREAT."
PROPOSITION: to use this text and others to show in what way sin is not infinite, and also to show in what way it seems to be infinite, and also to show that the grace of God is greater than our sin and that Christ blood cleanses from all sin.
1.) In what way does sin not appear to be infinite?
A. Sin has an origin, it came into the Universe through Satans pride, and into the world through Adams disobedience, in this respect it is different from God's infinitude, God has "no beginning of days nor end of life". Romans 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin..."
B. For those who repent and are converted the stain and guilt of sin is wiped away through the blood of Christ no matter how deep the stain or how great the guilt. In this way God's grace has overpowered sin and conqured death, and limited the destructive dominion of sin, and that which is limited cannot be said to be infinite. Romans 5:20 "...But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound"
C. There are no degrees in that which is infinite but according to the scripture there are degrees to the agrivation of each sin, some sins are punished with many stripes and some with few stripes, and some will receive a "greater damnation" John 19:11 "...therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin."
2.) In what way does sin appear to be infinite.
A. All sin appears to be infinite when it is measured against the infinite worth of God's glory. sin when measured against the high standard of Gods law is seen to be an infinite evil, an abominable and cursed thing worthy of God's intense hatred, displeasure and wrath.
B. All sin appears to be infinite when we see the eternal ramifications connected with each sin. consider those who would hinder sinners from entering into the kingdom of heaven, they robbed these seekers of the opportunity to obtain salvation. How much this has aggravated sin can only be measered by God. Luke 11:52 "Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered."
C. Sin appears to be infinite when we consider that Gods wrath is revealed against it forever. those who "die in their sin" have no hope of mitigation, their punishment will be infinite. they are forever exposed to the curse of the moral law they have broken.
Matthew 25:46 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment..."
3.) If sin is so detestable to God, that his justice cries aloud for an infinite punishment of it, is there any hope for those who are burdened down with the guilt and weight of it?
A. Yes! the answer is to get the justice of God on your side. when Christ gave himself up to a substitutionary death justice was answered in a satisfactory way. now God can be "just and the justifier of those who believe in Jesus", before repentance the justice of God is against the sinner, after repentance the justice of God intercedes on behalf of the sinner.
Hebrews 7:25 "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them."
1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
CONCLUSION: Sin is a loathsome misery of the soul it's like a poisonous worm feeding on the heart of a man, but Christ who is infinite in virtue conquered sin and subdued it through his vicarious death. All those who receive, Christ find that sin has lost its power and that it is far from infinite, but those who die impenatent will find that sin to them has appeared infinite and after we have entered into "another world" and we have been in that state of bliss or misery for millions of ages, if you could talk to the damned that are suffering in Hell fire and ask the poor wretchs if their sin is infinite they would give a resounding yes, but if you could inquire of the glorified saints and ask them if their sin is infinite they would give a resounding no, because for them the "blood of Jesus cleanses from all sin".

 

[Jollybear]

I believe it is eternal because it has no time.

So, what is the difference between time and eternity?

 

[Desert Snake]

Everlasting or forever, same thing.

Most versions say forever in the jonah verse i gave. Jonah 2:6 To the roots of the mountains I descended; the earth beneath me barred me in forever! But You raised my life from the pit, O LORD my God!

Instead of just denying my point, why not refute it?

Jonah said he was bared in forever, but obviously that did not literally happen. So, im not speaking an isolated, unfounded, unrational theory here. Account for the point.

The example you are using

Forever>not forever

Whereas

The OT [christian Bible>everlasting

Note the difference.
One use of the word, the meaning of forever has a context, in which it doesn't actually mean, forever
The other use of the word, there is no context, by which you could say, it doesn't mean forever.

 

[Jollybear]

Congratulations you’re prone to conformation bias! when it doesn't fit your viewpoint, it can be very easily dismissed. If it does fit your viewpoint, it's a perfect example of that viewpoint applying to real people in the real world. Hence how you rush to hasty generalizations based on your experience and others without any statistical evidence.

Congradulations, your biased by dismissing all near death experiences.

 

[Jollybear]

Goodness, yes! 2 Corinthians 11:12-15. (Vs.14)

If he couldn’t give people a good feeling, do you think he could deceive, as Revelation 12:9 says, “the entire Earth”?

Ok, the fruit of the holy Spirit is love, joy, peace, ect.

Is that the fruit of satan?

Jesus said youl know by the fruit.

 

[Jollybear]

The example you are using

Forever>not forever

Whereas

The OT [christian Bible>everlasting

Note the difference.
One use of the word, the meaning of forever has a context, in which it doesn't actually mean, forever
The other use of the word, there is no context, by which you could say, it doesn't mean forever.

You lost me. Explain more.

 

[Jollybear]

Maybe this will answer your question.

TITLE: In what way does sin appear to be infinite, and in what way does it not
SCRIPTURE READING: all of PSALM 25
SCRIPTURE TEXT: Psalms 25:11 "For thy name's sake, O LORD, pardon mine iniquity; FOR IT IS GREAT."
PROPOSITION: to use this text and others to show in what way sin is not infinite, and also to show in what way it seems to be infinite, and also to show that the grace of God is greater than our sin and that Christ blood cleanses from all sin.
1.) In what way does sin not appear to be infinite?
A. Sin has an origin, it came into the Universe through Satans pride, and into the world through Adams disobedience, in this respect it is different from God's infinitude, God has "no beginning of days nor end of life". Romans 5:12 "Wherefore, as by one man sin entered into the world, and death by sin..."
B. For those who repent and are converted the stain and guilt of sin is wiped away through the blood of Christ no matter how deep the stain or how great the guilt. In this way God's grace has overpowered sin and conqured death, and limited the destructive dominion of sin, and that which is limited cannot be said to be infinite. Romans 5:20 "...But where sin abounded, grace did much more abound"
C. There are no degrees in that which is infinite but according to the scripture there are degrees to the agrivation of each sin, some sins are punished with many stripes and some with few stripes, and some will receive a "greater damnation" John 19:11 "...therefore he that delivered me unto thee hath the greater sin."
2.) In what way does sin appear to be infinite.
A. All sin appears to be infinite when it is measured against the infinite worth of God's glory. sin when measured against the high standard of Gods law is seen to be an infinite evil, an abominable and cursed thing worthy of God's intense hatred, displeasure and wrath.
B. All sin appears to be infinite when we see the eternal ramifications connected with each sin. consider those who would hinder sinners from entering into the kingdom of heaven, they robbed these seekers of the opportunity to obtain salvation. How much this has aggravated sin can only be measered by God. Luke 11:52 "Woe unto you, lawyers! for ye have taken away the key of knowledge: ye entered not in yourselves, and them that were entering in ye hindered."
C. Sin appears to be infinite when we consider that Gods wrath is revealed against it forever. those who "die in their sin" have no hope of mitigation, their punishment will be infinite. they are forever exposed to the curse of the moral law they have broken.
Matthew 25:46 "And these shall go away into everlasting punishment..."
3.) If sin is so detestable to God, that his justice cries aloud for an infinite punishment of it, is there any hope for those who are burdened down with the guilt and weight of it?
A. Yes! the answer is to get the justice of God on your side. when Christ gave himself up to a substitutionary death justice was answered in a satisfactory way. now God can be "just and the justifier of those who believe in Jesus", before repentance the justice of God is against the sinner, after repentance the justice of God intercedes on behalf of the sinner.
Hebrews 7:25 "Wherefore he is able also to save them to the uttermost that come unto God by him, seeing he ever liveth to make intercession for them."
1 John 1:9 "If we confess our sins, he is faithful and just to forgive us our sins, and to cleanse us from all unrighteousness."
CONCLUSION: Sin is a loathsome misery of the soul it's like a poisonous worm feeding on the heart of a man, but Christ who is infinite in virtue conquered sin and subdued it through his vicarious death. All those who receive, Christ find that sin has lost its power and that it is far from infinite, but those who die impenatent will find that sin to them has appeared infinite and after we have entered into "another world" and we have been in that state of bliss or misery for millions of ages, if you could talk to the damned that are suffering in Hell fire and ask the poor wretchs if their sin is infinite they would give a resounding yes, but if you could inquire of the glorified saints and ask them if their sin is infinite they would give a resounding no, because for them the "blood of Jesus cleanses from all sin".

So sin is infinate when measured by Gods infinate goodness you say? So that justifies infinate, forever justice or forever torture.

Why cant it just simply justify infinate DESTRUCTION?

 

[Prometheus85]

Congradulations, your biased by dismissing all near death experiences.

I’m dismissing them on the basis that testimonials are not sufficient evidence. That’s not called being bias, it’s called being rational.

The use of anecdotal evidence to draw a conclusion is like using the NBA all-star teams to estimate the average height of Americans. But by all means if you have some way to prove people’s testimonials about dying coming back to life and going heaven/hell please share.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Congradulations, your biased by dismissing all near death experiences.

It does seem like valid evidence, doesn’t it?

But then, let me ask you: how does an immediate afterlife, which would have to mean some kind of consciousness, agree with Jesus’ words about the Resurrection (John 5:28-29), which literal means a “standing back to life”? And it comes at a future time, according to John 6:40-44. It can’t be, if the dead are ‘still alive’ in another realm. (No need to resurrect them then.)

In these NDE’s, have some people seen the supposed ‘torment’ of others, like in a hell?
Well, then, if so....why did Jacob say he was going there @ death? Genesis 42:38 (Look at the Darby Bible rendering.) in the Hebrew Scriptures (OT), Sheol = Hell = the Grave. In the Greek Scriptures (NT), the word is Hades = Hell = the Grave. (And where ‘hellfire’ is mentioned in the NT, the word Hades isn’t there; but rather Gehenna, which is what Hades / Hell / Sheol / the Grave, along with death, is hurled into, at Revelation 20:13-14.
If there’s no more death, there’ll be, by necessity (or lack of), no more graves.

Jesus temporarily went to Hell. — Psalms 16:10 (Peter applied this Jesus, @ Acts of the Apostles 2:27-32)

In fact, everyone goes to hell (Grave), at their death. — Ecclesiastes 9:10 ....”the place to which you are going”. (This was written to everyone reading it, not just bad people.)

There’s been a lot of deception going on.

And really, isn’t it what you would expect from a powerful Enemy of God, who is said to be Prince of the world? John 12:31; John 14:30; cf 1 John 5:19.

Interesting that the divisions within Islam are between 40 to 50; within Judaism, about 30 to 40. But within professed Christianity? Over 33,000!
Quite an effective way to hide what started out as truth, by making so many counterfeits!

 

[Jollybear]

I’m dismissing them on the basis that testimonials are not sufficient evidence. That’s not called being bias, it’s called being rational.

The use of anecdotal evidence to draw a conclusion is like using the NBA all-star teams to estimate the average height of Americans. But by all means if you have some way to prove people’s testimonials about dying coming back to life and going heaven/hell please share.

So im unrational because i dont believe thousands, and probably millions of people are not lying to us?

Ok.....then

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Ok, the fruit of the holy Spirit is love, joy, peace, ect.

Is that the fruit of satan?

Jesus said youl know by the fruit.

Do people without God, like atheists, show these qualities? Definitely.

That in itself is not identifying anything.

 

[Jollybear]

It does seem like valid evidence, doesn’t it?

But then, let me ask you: how does an immediate afterlife, which would have to mean some kind of consciousness, agree with Jesus’ words about the Resurrection (John 5:28-29), which literal means a “standing back to life”? And it comes at a future time, according to John 6:40-44. It can’t be, if the dead are ‘still alive’ in another realm. (No need to resurrect them then.)

In these NDE’s, have some people seen the supposed ‘torment’ of others, like in a hell?
Well, then, if so....why did Jacob say he was going there @ death? Genesis 42:38 (Look at the Darby Bible rendering.) in the Hebrew Scriptures (OT), Sheol = Hell = the Grave. In the Greek Scriptures (NT), the word is Hades = Hell = the Grave. (And where ‘hellfire’ is mentioned in the NT, the word Hades isn’t there; but rather Gehenna, which is what Hades / Hell / Sheol / the Grave, along with death, is hurled into, at Revelation 20:13-14.
If there’s no more death, there’ll be, by necessity (or lack of), no more graves.

Jesus temporarily went to Hell. — Psalms 16:10 (Peter applied this Jesus, @ Acts of the Apostles 2:27-32)

In fact, everyone goes to hell (Grave), at their death. — Ecclesiastes 9:10 ....”the place to which you are going”. (This was written to everyone reading it, not just bad people.)

There’s been a lot of deception going on.

And really, isn’t it what you would expect from a powerful Enemy of God, who is said to be Prince of the world? John 12:31; John 14:30; cf 1 John 5:19.

Interesting that the divisions within Islam are between 40 to 50; within Judaism, about 30 to 40. But within professed Christianity? Over 33,000!
Quite an effective way to hide what started out as truth, by making so many counterfeits!

Well, let me explain my model.

Heaven was created for angels, not humans. Earth was created for humans. Hell was created for the rebelious angels.

Now, since humans die, due to sin, heaven and hell are used for temporary holding places UNTIL the future resurection and judgement and seperation of the weeds and wheat.

 

[Hockeycowboy]

You are a good thinker! Keep it up! But be open.

Here’s something to think about regarding torment after death: The wicked dead, supposedly experiencing it, are eternally alive, right?

According to Romans 6:23, though, everlasting life is a gift!
The fact is, the dead are dead....they’ve paid the price (wages) of sin. And Romans 6:7 tells us, “he that has died is freed from sin.”
He’s paid. He owes no more.

 

[Prometheus85]

So im unrational because i dont believe thousands, and probably millions of people are not lying to us?

Ok.....then

Nobody said anything about lying except you. You automatically assume that I’m accusing these individuals of lying because of your bias towards their testimonies.
people that have NDE and say they went to heaven/hell may very well be telling the truth, and they are nice illustrative stories, but they do not constitute evidence.This is because anecdotes only ever apply to individuals or individual experiences and are subject to the BIASES that this brings with it. It is impossible to say that an individual anecdote is representative and it is also impossible to actually detect the real cause of the anecdote.

For example, "Billy-Bob ate 3 pounds of apples a day for a year and his cancer disappeared – so can you. You have cancer, r u going to believe that if you eat 3 pounds of apples a day for a yr like billy bob your cancer is going to disappear too!

That’s basically the equivalent of believing an afterlife exists based on testimonials

 

[Jollybear]

You are a good thinker! Keep it up! But be open.

Here’s something to think about regarding torment after death: The wicked dead, supposedly experiencing it, are eternally alive, right?

According to Romans 6:23, though, everlasting life is a gift!
The fact is, the dead are dead....they’ve paid the price (wages) of sin. And Romans 6:7 tells us, “he that has died is freed from sin.”
He’s paid. He owes no more.

I agree with that thats why i dont believe the wicked dead are eternally alive in hell.

I think there temporarily in it. There ultimate demise is death, the second death. Unless they repent in hell and become saved. Yes i believe some cases can be redeemed while in hell.

 

[Prometheus85]

Well, let me explain my model.

Heaven was created for angels, not humans. Earth was created for humans. Hell was created for the rebelious angels.
Now, since humans die, due to sin, heaven and hell are used for temporary holding places UNTIL the future resurection and judgement and seperation of the weeds and wheat.

How do u know earth was created? Were u there to see the creation? And if earth was created for humans, what about all the other life forms that existed on earth that pre date humans by millions of yrs? And humans die due to sin? What about common causes of death like Diseases. Cardiovascular disease, cancer, chronic condition, diabetes, injury, accidents. The list goes on bruh. Lol

 

[Hockeycowboy]

Heaven was created for angels, not humans

Yes! Psalms 115:16 sorta backs this up. May be others, off hand I can’t remember.

Earth was created for humans.

For sure! The Bible says this! Isaiah 45:18

Hell was created for the rebelious angels.

Then why is the righteous man Jacob there? Why did Job pray to go there? Why was Jesus there?

Where does it say this? The Bible calls the place, ‘Tartarus.’ Like a prison.

Now, since humans die, due to sin, heaven and hell are used for temporary holding places UNTIL the future resurection and judgement and seperation of the weeds and wheat.

Remember, resurrection means “stand back to life.” You can’t come back to something, if you’re still there.