Why is homosexuality a sin

[Sunstone]

I cannot say the same for ANY of my heterosexual friends.

That's only because you and I haven't gotten married yet, Nanda!

More seriously, I agree with you for the most part: Of the three best relationships I've seen in my 50 decadent years, two were heterosexual and one was homosexual. If homosexuals could not love each other just as well as heterosexuals, that latter relationship surely would not exist.

 

[Ringer]

Homosexuality is natural. To deny it is to admit to a delusional belief about the human condition. Another mistaken Biblical concept is that humans are born male and female.

I wonder why if homosexuality is natural that it is only a minority of people who have homosexual relationships? If you take the dictionary definition of "natural" as meaning as 'true or closely imitating nature', I would consider homosexuality to be natural. People on this thread have told of a few instances of homosexual behavior occurinig between other animal species but that isn't the norm.

I never really thought through the fact that we aren't born male or female. If this is the case and say I had a son, ahhhh, I mean, a baby with a penis, and say I raised him in such a way that I taught him he should only have feelings for the same sex, would there be conflict there once he was old enough to have sexual feelings? I think that no matter how hard I pushed him to not be attracted to the opposite sex, chances are he still would be.

 

[sojourner]

So...let's see. The majority of people on the planet are Chinese. Therefore, every other nationality is unnatural.

I think that no matter how hard I pushed him to not be attracted to the opposite sex, chances are he still would be.

Only if he's straight...

 

[slabbey06]

I'm arguing against the inherent sinfulness of homosexuality because I don't find any compelling evidence that the Biblical record on the matter is anything other than culturally derived. This is not, Biblically, a moral issue in and of itself. It's a cultural issue that is moot in this time and place.

I find it interesting that you believe this is a cultural issue. If you look at the historical context surrounding the Biblical passages that say homosexuality is sin, you'll find that the culture at those times were very open in practicing homosexuality, and it was widely accepted. For example, in 1 Corinthians. 6:9 homosexuality is said to be wrong. If you study the history and culture of Corinth at this time in history, you'll see that it more the "norm" then than it is now. It was widely practiced publicly and openly. If this is a cultural issue and not a moral one, then why would the Bible say it is sin?

 

[gnomon]

I wonder why if homosexuality is natural that it is only a minority of people who have homosexual relationships? If you take the dictionary definition of "natural" as meaning as 'true or closely imitating nature', I would consider homosexuality to be natural. People on this thread have told of a few instances of homosexual behavior occurinig between other animal species but that isn't the norm.

I never really thought through the fact that we aren't born male or female. If this is the case and say I had a son, ahhhh, I mean, a baby with a penis, and say I raised him in such a way that I taught him he should only have feelings for the same sex, would there be conflict there once he was old enough to have sexual feelings? I think that no matter how hard I pushed him to not be attracted to the opposite sex, chances are he still would be.

Natural has nothing to do with majority consensus or frequency higher than the mean. Norm does not equate to natural.

And my contention that every human being is not born male or female has nothing to do with gender and sexual identity developing during childhood and adolescence. It is factual that not every human being is born clearly identified as a biological male or female or during sexual development does not appear to be male or female as defined by the norm.

In other words, contrary to popular religious belief and how it ties into the concepts of sexuality, human beings are not born male or female. There appears to be a continuum of sexual identity. The Abrahamic traditions, most often used in the west to condemn sexual identity and sexual acts, inadequately address the truth of the human condition.

for reference:
http://www.isna.org/

http://www.isna.org/faq/marriage

I think that no matter how hard I pushed him to not be attracted to the opposite sex, chances are he still would be.

I'm sure homosexuals feel the same way. No matter how hard people push them they are going to be who they are going to be. It shouldn't be any other way.

 

[slabbey06]

Natural has nothing to do with majority consensus or frequency higher than the mean. Norm does not equate to natural.

In other words, contrary to popular religious belief and how it ties into the concepts of sexuality, human beings are not born male or female.

No matter how hard people push them they are going to be who they are going to be. It shouldn't be any other way.

So do you believe that anything that is "natural" is acceptable?

If we're not born male or female, what are we born?

You said that "...they are going to be who they are going to be. It shouldn't be any other way." But couldn't a rapist or pedophile say that too? Couldn't they say, "This is who I am naturally"?This question has more to do with reasoning of your statement than the topic of homosexuality.

 

[Wandered Off]

You said that "...they are going to be who they are going to be. It shouldn't be any other way." But couldn't a rapist or pedophile say that too?

The obvious difference is consent, which neither of the other acts you mention involves.

 

[Nanda]

That's only because you and I haven't gotten married yet, Nanda!

No sweat! All we have to do is legalize gay marriage, and that'll butter-up that slippery slope enough to legalize polygamy. Then we're all set.

 

[gnomon]

So do you believe that anything that is "natural" is acceptable?

If we're not born male or female, what are we born?

You said that "...they are going to be who they are going to be. It shouldn't be any other way." But couldn't a rapist or pedophile say that too? Couldn't they say, "This is who I am naturally"?This question has more to do with reasoning of your statement than the topic of homosexuality.

It doesn't affect the reasoning of my statement at all. Rapists are individuals who commit a crime by forcing another human being to submit to them physically in a sexual act. A rapist can be heterosexual or homosexual. Your question is entirely irrelevant and noted as nothing more than a tired tactic taken by people who wish to avoid the question I have already raised.

Abrahamic faith cannot account for intersex individuals in its traditional theology. Their existence denies the concept that God created men and women and that heterosexual sex is the only natural aspect of human life.

If we're not born male or female, what are we born?

I already answered this question. Read the post and the links.

 

[gnomon]

I dont know if ther question has been answered but here it is:

From Logic:

1) A man is born with a penis, throurgh which semen, comes.

2) A woman is born with a Vagina, to which ova flow

3) They fit, it is their main purpose.

That is how God designed it. However many people just dont know how they are influenced. The rulers of this world wish for you to rebel aginast God. So far they've touched every way of life cuasing millions to rebel doing what is unorthodox. Among these is Homosexuality.

Then why aren't people born that way in every circumstance of birth?

 

[JayHawes]

Then why aren't people born that way in every circumstance of birth?

Because the world is full of sin and death. Sin results in more sin, it poisons us. People are born ways that God never intended, but this is only so becuase we are in so much darkness, so much wrong. But one day, if only we can have the faith, one day God will make all wrong, right, and no one will have to suffer anymore.

 

[gnomon]

Because the world is full of sin and death. Sin results in more sin, it poisons us. People are born ways that God never intended, but this is only so becuase we are in so much darkness, so much wrong. But one day, if only we can have the faith, one day God will make all wrong, right, and no one will have to suffer anymore.

How is it possible that people are born ways that God never intended? If a person is born in such a manner that science has shown us contradicts biblical accounts then how can God be perfect? Or are you saying that these individuals are going to suffer by God's design due to the sins of others?

 

[gnomon]

Homosexuality among animals. Read before commenting.

http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1589/is_n735/ai_20164884http://findarticles.com/p/articles/mi_m1589/is_n735/ai_20164884

http://news.nationalgeographic.com/news/2004/07/0722_040722_gayanimal_2.html

http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Homosexuality_in_animals

 

[Ringer]

How is it possible that people are born ways that God never intended? If a person is born in such a manner that science has shown us contradicts biblical accounts then how can God be perfect? Or are you saying that these individuals are going to suffer by God's design due to the sins of others?

Well, we are born with a sinful nature and I don't think God intended that either. If you want to look at God's perfection in regards to our sexuality, the only time I can think that they were in tune was the Garden of Eden. I can't speak for all Christians but when I read thatGod created Adam and then created Eve so that man wouldn't be alone, I have a hard time believing that homosexual relationships is something that God looks upon and thinks, "Now this is good and this is how I inteded the gift of sexuality to be". Not to mention, as previously posted, the city of Corinth was very open in their sexual perversions including homosexuality when Paul penned 1 Corinthians 6:9 - 11:

9Or do you not know that the unrighteous will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived; neither fornicators, nor idolaters, nor adulterers, nor effeminate, nor homosexuals,

10nor thieves, nor the covetous, nor drunkards, nor revilers, nor swindlers, will inherit the kingdom of God. 11Such were some of you; but you were washed, but you were sanctified, but you were justified in the name of the Lord Jesus Christ and in the Spirit of our God.

Since I believe that the Bible is God-breathed, how else can I take that passage? It's not like a majority of Christians hate homosexuals. But it seems apparent from a biblical perspective that practicing homosexuality is a sin. You can say that Paul is saying that it's a sin and not God himself but again, I feel that every word in the Bible has been divinely inspired and if God in all His greatness did not feel that way about it, I think His position would have been clearly made known elsewhere ( This is where you look up passages to make me look like a fool ).

I'll say it again, there's no doubt that having homosexual feelings is hard and I won't doubt that homsexuals may find happiness in those relationships. But when you compare that happiness to the joy you find in obeying God and walking in an obedient relationship with him, I wouldn't think the two would compare. I guess my suggestion to someone would be that you get right with God, earnestly pray that He shows you the path and sincerely ask for wisdom and I believe you'll know what is right. If you feel that is what God wants you to do then go for it. It's not between you and anyone else anyway but between you and God.

Romans 12:1-2:
1Therefore, I urge you, brothers, in view of God's mercy, to offer your bodies as living sacrifices, holy and pleasing to God—this is your spiritual act of worship. 2Do not conform any longer to the pattern of this world, but be transformed by the renewing of your mind. Then you will be able to test and approve what God's will is—his good, pleasing and perfect will.

I think this is my last post on this thread...it was fun and hopefully I didn't offend anyone.

 

[nutshell]

It's nice to see the evangelicals equally distribute their hate.

 

[sojourner]

I find it interesting that you believe this is a cultural issue. If you look at the historical context surrounding the Biblical passages that say homosexuality is sin, you'll find that the culture at those times were very open in practicing homosexuality, and it was widely accepted. For example, in 1 Corinthians. 6:9 homosexuality is said to be wrong. If you study the history and culture of Corinth at this time in history, you'll see that it more the "norm" then than it is now. It was widely practiced publicly and openly. If this is a cultural issue and not a moral one, then why would the Bible say it is sin?

I Cor. 6:9: "Do you not know that wrongdoers will not inherit the kingdom of God? Do not be deceived! Fornicators, idolaters, adulterers, male prostitutes, sodomites..."
I don't read anything about homosexuality here. "Sodomy" does not infer homosexuality. Most of the sodomy that takes place in pedophilia is perpetrated by heterosexuals. Most of the prison rape is perpetrated by heterosexuals. Most of the "battlefield rape" that took place in the ancient Near East was perpetrated by heterosexuals. sodomy is an act of violence, not an act of sexual desire.

Remember, Paul was a Jew -- a Pharisee, in fact. He would have been subject to the same cultural norms as any other ancient Jew. In that culture, honor and shame were imbedded in sexual identity. Men embodied honor, women embodied shame. For a man to "take it like a woman" was for a man (who was supposed to embody honor) to embody shame. it's a cultural taboo, not a moral judgment.

 

[slabbey06]

Your question is entirely irrelevant and noted as nothing more than a tired tactic taken by people who wish to avoid the question I have already raised.

I'm sorry if you took my questions as tired tactics and irrelevant. When I read your post they were legitimate questions that came to my mind, and I was honestly curious to know what you thought. I respectfully disagree with your views on homosexuality and appreciate your willingness to debate.

My final thought on this subject is to say that I believe with my whole heart that when it comes down to it, homosexuality isn't the real issue. The real issue is that sin, whether it's a white lie, cheating on taxes, or whatever, separates us from God who is holy. The real issue is that we are dead in our sins and unable to do anything about it(Rom. 3:23), which is why Jesus Christ came. He is the way, the truth, and the life (John 14:6) and no one can become right with God and escape the punishment of Hell we deserve apart from faith in His death, burial, and resurrection.

Salvation is found in no one else, for there is no other name under heaven given to men by which we must be saved." Acts 4:12

I understand that most who read this will disagree. That's fine. I'm not trying to convince you that I'm right. That's not my job. But in the spirit of debate and thinking critically, I ask that if you haven't really thought about this and the implications it has for eternity, that you take the time to look into if it is true or simply man made fiction.

 

[sojourner]

Then why aren't people born that way in every circumstance of birth?

Because the world is full of sin and death. Sin results in more sin, it poisons us. People are born ways that God never intended, but this is only so becuase we are in so much darkness, so much wrong. But one day, if only we can have the faith, one day God will make all wrong, right, and no one will have to suffer anymore.

so...people who are born with a penis on the outside, but with female parts inside are made sinful???? God made those people to embody sin by very virtue of their physicality???? Geez, what about those born with mental abberations? Are they inherently sinful, too????

Your theology is trash.

 

[kmkemp]

Everyone is made sinful. I don't know what beliefs you have, but almost everything I read from you is directly contradictory to what the Bible actually says.

 

[Sunstone]

Everyone is made sinful.

God makes everyone sinful?