Why is Islam so dangerous?

[TransmutingSoul]

This is interesting, that you think your opinion
cannot possibly be wrong.

Our own opinion can be wrong. If what is offered is a teaching from Gods Messenger, then that teaching in itself is error free.

Example is Christs teacings about His connection with God. If we read what Christ said, that in itself is error free. If we take those teachings and make a doctrine, a meaning not given or explained, then that is prone to error.

Regards Tony

 

[TransmutingSoul]

That is nothing but a rather silly attempt at a strawman.

But since you mention it-

No doubt that was the long term goal of the boys
of 911, following mohammeds example. Peace and
harmony once they get what they want. Same with
mohammed

Using your chosen word, it is "crazy" to think that your
opinion, or anyone else's is infallible.

It is just a freakin' opinion!!!

Abdul'baha when talking to a person that said war would bring peace, gave advice in a very simple way.

'Lets try peace for a while, if it does not work we can always go back to war'

Terror acts are not Part of the Message of Muhammad given in the Quran, plain and simple.

To keep using that, is an act against peace.

Regards Tony

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Anything good done the wrong way, or with the wrong people, or done at the wrong time, or in the wrong place, or the wrong way, or in the wrong amount, becomes evil.

Take socialism. In moderate amounts, it tempers the excesses of capitalism. In excess it becomes the tyranny of communism.

Islam at its core teaches good and righteous behavior -- jihad being the personal struggle to become a better, more Godly person. But do this the wrong way, warping Jihad into a physical war with infidels, and you have evil.

 

[Notanumber]

We need more open unrestricted and calm discussions like this.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Well the admins on this forum keep censoring my posts regarding Islam

No wonder.

Regards Tony

 

[Raymann]

I'm not interested in crazy rants that have nothing to do with reality.

Fine I was just interested in knowing how did you get to the following conclusion:
"For a person who lives in such a huge, multicultural center of the world, you seem awfully sheltered and wildly prejudiced"

Uh actually most terrorism in America is caused by white racist groups like the skin heads and KKK against Jews and Muslims, your wrong. They all claim to be Christian too.

Ok, so what's your point?
That we shouldn't condemn Islamic violence because according to some information that you didn't provide to us, some other groups also commit violence acts?
I condemn violence from any group.
By the way the KKK is an ANTI-CATHOLIC group, and Catholics are the most popular denomination of Christians in the world so I don't know how can you call them a Christian organization.
From Wikipedia:
"The Klan has existed in three distinct eras at different points in time during the history of the United States. Each has advocated extremist reactionary positions such as white nationalism, anti-immigration and—especially in later iterations—Nordicism[9][10]and anti-Catholicism."
None of their principles are very christians

Tommy Robinson video

We need more open unrestricted and calm discussions like this.

He proves every time he opens his mouth that people interpret thing the way they want to and not the way they are.
He is automatically labeled and Islamophobe just by talking about Islam.
Some of us instead fail to understand how can he possibly be labeled an Islamophobe? On what grounds?

Islam at its core teaches good and righteous behavior -- jihad being the personal struggle to become a better, more Godly person. But do this the wrong way, warping Jihad into a physical war with infidels, and you have evil.

You said it yourself.
"Warping Jihad into a physical war with infidels, and you have evil"
That's exactly what the violent minority of Muslims are doing.

 

[Audie]

We need more open unrestricted and calm discussions like this.

Call it calming, i call it lulling

 

[Audie]

Anything good done the wrong way, or with the wrong people, or done at the wrong time, or in the wrong place, or the wrong way, or in the wrong amount, becomes evil.

Take socialism. In moderate amounts, it tempers the excesses of capitalism. In excess it becomes the tyranny of communism.

Islam at its core teaches good and righteous behavior -- jihad being the personal struggle to become a better, more Godly person. But do this the wrong way, warping Jihad into a physical war with infidels, and you have evil.

Good includes targeting any civilians who may
be an economic component of an "enemy" group?

 

[Notanumber]

Call it calming, i call it lulling

She seemed to be fairly open-minded and people around her seemed to be paying attention to what was being said instead of going off on one.

 

[Audie]

She seemed to be fairly open-minded and people around her seemed to be paying attention to what was being said instead of going off on one.

It is good to pay attention.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Good includes targeting any civilians who may
be an economic component of an "enemy" group?

Good includes targeting the right people for the right reasons. Civilians would be the wrong people to target even if for the right reasons. It is a warp of the good.

 

[Audie]

Good includes targeting the right people for the right reasons. Civilians would be the wrong people to target even if for the right reasons. It is a warp of the good.

Mohammed did not seem to think so.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Mohammed did not seem to think so.

It bothers me ethically that Islam spread at the point of the sword, civilians or no civilians. Muhammad was certainly not a prophet of God, despite the fact that many wonderful, spiritual, benevolent Muslims think so.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

It bothers me ethically that Islam spread at the point of the sword, civilians or no civilians. Muhammad was certainly not a prophet of God, despite the fact that many wonderful, spiritual, benevolent Muslims think so.

Since when is Yahweh a pacifist? Yahweh himself said he is a "man of war" (Exodus 15:3). He ordered his people into war time and time again in the Jewish Bible, including ordering genocide. Seems a bit odd for a Jew to use that as an excuse to deny that Muhammad was chosen by Abraham's deity. He has a lot more in common with the Jewish patriarchs than Jesus does.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Since when is Yahweh a pacifist? Yahweh himself said he is a "man of war" (Exodus 15:3). He ordered his people into war time and time again in the Jewish Bible, including ordering genocide. Seems a bit odd for a Jew to use that as an excuse to deny that Muhammad was chosen by Abraham's deity. He has a lot more in common with the Jewish patriarchs than Jesus does.

Muhammad was not God. God is God. What Muhammad decides to do on his own must operate within the confines of morality. God does to, but with certain obvious exceptions. God is the author of life and death. Every death by sickness, accident, even crime, happens because God allows it, even ordains it. If a serial killer butchers someone, he doesn't get off the hook for doing evil of their own free will, but the person who died still died because it was their ordained time. Thus, if God orders someone killed directly, that is his right as the author of life and death. His RIGHT. All life belongs to him. Life doesn't belong to Muhammad, are you serious??? You simply can't compare Muhammad to God.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

Muhammad was not God. God is God. What Muhammad decides to do on his own must operate within the confines of morality. God does to, but with certain obvious exceptions. God is the author of life and death. Every death by sickness, accident, even crime, happens because God allows it, even ordains it. If a serial killer butchers someone, he doesn't get off the hook for doing evil of their own free will, but the person who died still died because it was their ordained time. Thus, if God orders someone killed directly, that is his right as the author of life and death. His RIGHT. All life belongs to him. Life doesn't belong to Muhammad, are you serious??? You simply can't compare Muhammad to God.

I wasn't comparing Muhammad to Yahweh. Obviously Muslims believe that Muhammad was Yahweh's servant and acting in his direction. To me, it's no different than the war heroes of the Jewish Bible. I don't get why you have a problem with Muhammad being a warrior and going to war when the heroes of your religion did the same.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

I wasn't comparing Muhammad to Yahweh. Obviously Muslims believe that Muhammad was Yahweh's servant and acting in his direction. To me, it's no different than the war heroes of the Jewish Bible. I don't get why you have a problem with Muhammad being a warrior and going to war when the heroes of your religion did the same.

1. The only wars I know of that were morally questionable were i.e. the conquest wars at the beginning where every man, woman, and child were killed by the Israelites. (Archaeolgical evidence disputes whether this actually happened.) The directions for this were reputedly given directly by God himself to Moses. They were not thought up by Moses.
2. Muhammad never spoke directly to God. He is reputed to have spoken to an Angel.
3. This Angel is reputed to have relayed to Muhammad the words of the Quran. There are no instructions in the Quran telling Muslims to go spread Islam at the point of the sword. None. I have read it. None.
4. Therefore the decision to go to war was entirely Muhammad's and the moral responsibility lays entirely on his shoulders, along with all the moral restrictions men are under.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

1. The only wars I know of that were morally questionable were i.e. the conquest wars at the beginning where every man, woman, and child were killed by the Israelites. (Archaeolgical evidence disputes whether this actually happened.) The directions for this were reputedly given directly by God himself to Moses. They were not thought up by Moses.
2. Muhammad never spoke directly to God. He is reputed to have spoken to an Angel.
3. This Angel is reputed to have relayed to Muhammad the words of the Quran. There are no instructions in the Quran telling Muslims to go spread Islam at the point of the sword. None. I have read it. None.
4. Therefore the decision to go to war was entirely Muhammad's and the moral responsibility lays entirely on his shoulders, along with all the moral restrictions men are under.

Okay, your reasoning seems fair here. Can't think of a response to it. I was honestly wondering how it was different.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Okay, your reasoning seems fair here. Can't think of a response to it. I was honestly wondering how it was different.

And your own question is not out of the blue. Don't think I've never wrestled with the killing of innocents by early Israelis.

 

[Ancient Soul]

I don't care much about religion.
I'm not against any religion, don't get me wrong.
I even believe religious people (Christians mainly because I grew up among them) are good people. They seem to be genuinely loving people.
I cannot speak much about other religions on a personal level because I don't make many friends that are not Christians or Atheists. Not my choice, it just happens that way.
Like many people, I have spent many hours researching on Islam after 9/11 happened.
I live in New York City so that was very close to me.
My research findings tell me Islam is a very dangerous religion.
The closer Islam gets to you the more dangerous it gets.
That seems to be a fact.
I know that Muslims are going to ask me to prove it from the scriptures and that is a ridiculous request.
There are 52 or 53 Muslim countries in the world and I can assure you that any of them has some sort of religious tension, wars or religious related violence in them.
I can quickly come up with links to prove it.
Most of the world is still Christian majority and today you rarely will find religion related violence in them.
The question is why?
Is there any hope that this pattern is going to change?
Is there some kind of Islamic reform possible?
Is war against Islam inevitable?

And here we go again!

I am quite familiar with the happenings of 9/11 and so will always stay convinced that it was an "inside" job. But regardless, even if someone else was responsible who just happened to be Muslim, those people are long gone. Dead. WAY in the past. And the people who were claimed to have done it, did it in retaliation to the U.S. invading their country and NOT anything to do with their religious beliefs. But it seems that many people refuse to stick to the facts and LOVE to wallow in bigotry and hatred, so fill themselves with hatred for ALL Muslims everywhere. Geez... Yet every time we turn around some white guy is gunning down innocent people, yet the race/religious bigots are mum about all of THAT. Whereas I don't recall any of them being Muslim. Funny yet sad how that works out in their bigoted minds.

And given the horrific blood soaked Christian history, I find it appalling when someone ignores all of that or how they are STILL doing horrific things in backwater places around the world to force their beliefs upon others, and falsely claims they are all saints.

And let's not forget what Christianity teaches:

Exodus 22:20
"Whoever sacrifices to any god other than the LORD must be destroyed.

Deuteronomy 13:6-10
6 If your very own brother, or your son or daughter, or the wife you love, or your closest friend secretly entices you, saying, “Let us go and worship other gods” (gods that neither you nor your ancestors have known,
7 gods of the peoples around you, whether near or far, from one end of the land to the other),
8 do not yield to them or listen to them. Show them no pity. Do not spare them or shield them.
9 You must certainly put them to death. Your hand must be the first in putting them to death, and then the hands of all the people.
10 Stone them to death, because they tried to turn you away from the LORD your God, who brought you out of Egypt, out of the land of slavery.

Deuteronomy 13:12-16

12If thou shalt hear say in one of thy cities, which the LORD thy God hath given thee to dwell there, saying,

13Certain men, the children of Belial, are gone out from among you, and have withdrawn the inhabitants of their city, saying, Let us go and serve other gods, which ye have not known;

14Then shalt thou enquire, and make search, and ask diligently; and, behold, if it be truth, and the thing certain, that such abomination is wrought among you;

15Thou shalt surely smite the inhabitants of that city with the edge of the sword, destroying it utterly, and all that is therein, and the cattle thereof, with the edge of the sword.

16And thou shalt gather all the spoil of it into the midst of the street thereof, and shalt burn with fire the city, and all the spoil thereof every whit, for the LORD thy God: and it shall be an heap for ever; it shall not be built again.

Deuteronomy 17:2-5

2"(A)If there is found in your midst, in any of your towns, which the LORD your God is giving you, a man or a woman who does what is evil in the sight of the LORD your God, by transgressing His covenant,

3and has gone and (B)served other gods and worshiped them, (C)or the sun or the moon or any of the heavenly host, (D)which I have not commanded,

4and if it is told you and you have heard of it, then you shall inquire thoroughly. Behold, if it is true and the thing certain that this detestable thing has been done in Israel,

5then you shall bring out that man or that woman who has done this evil deed to your gates, that is, the man or the woman, and (E)you shall stone them to death.

Deuteronomy 17:12-13
12 The person who acts arrogantly, refusing to listen either to the priest who stands there serving the LORD your God or to the judge, must die. You must purge the evil from Israel. 13 Then all the people will hear [about it], be afraid, and no longer behave arrogantly.

Deuteronomy 18:20-22
20 But a prophet who presumes to speak in my name anything I have not commanded, or a prophet who speaks in the name of other gods, is to be put to death.”