Why is Islam so dangerous?

[LuisDantas]

It does if I am being attacked and particularly if I am in danger, IMO.

At a very simple level, it probably does.

However, once the ability to perceive actions and consequences is developed, it also and more importantly means that you have the moral duty to avoid and prevent such situations.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

At a very simple level, it probably does.

However, once the ability to perceive actions and consequences is developed, it also and more importantly means that you have the moral duty to avoid and prevent such situations.

Right, we should indeed do all that we can to avoid and prevent war, but when it comes to our door despite everything, then we have that right.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

That means if they feel they are being attacked they have the permission from Allah to attack back.

If we are clearly being attacked, that is true, but we should do what we can to seek peace first.

Terrorists would claim the invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq as totally good reasons to attack back as Allah instructed them. That's what Jihad is all about.

The invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq indeed justify fighting back, but only against combatants.

The northern countries and many others in Europe have been an example of prosperity, peace and well being.

And that is to their credit.

Muslims are being provided with housing, money and jobs but that's not enough

So you are against Muslims even being given jobs where they fully deserve them (having gone through the usual application process)?

they want to change the culture of the place

A minority do. But most of us just want to be left alone to go about our lives like everyone else.

Western women now have to cover up or they risk to be raped.

Where do you see this happening?

Jews can hardly get out of their houses and if they are recognized they are attacked.

Evidence please.

 

[Raymann]

If a Muslim should attack me it would be just like if a non muslim should attack me, i dont difference in what religion they follow. But i would not hit back, or kill for that matter. And if he just punch me i can forgive him for that.

There is no offering the other cheek in Islam, it is more like an eye for an eye mentality.
So you wouldn't even noticed that on the new year's rapes in Cologne, Germany, all the rapes were committed by Muslims and the reason is based on Islamic culture and dress standards.
All those women were dressing like "whores" according to Islamic tradition and the bad Muslims would not have it and had to penalized the infractors.

A lot tension comes from America toward the islamic countries this day, just look at Trump wanting to attack Iran, and so far Iran has not done anything outside of their own country, So if America actually do attack, then it is not a war started by a Islamic country.

How can you trust a crazy dictator trying to build nuclear weapons?
Aren't you afraid they would use them if they had them?
All Trump wants is to stop the nuclear weapons factory.

The jews have been moving back to Israel for a long time, not sure it is just because they do not like Muslims

Flight to the Holy Land: Europe's Jewish Exodus (Part 1)
There is only one real reason for the Exodus, "Muslims".

I have muslims as my neighbours where i live, and they are good people, so no i do not fear muslims living here.

I'm fine here too, (I'm in New York City) but it's not just about me and you, don't you think?

 

[Spirit of Light]

There is no offering the other cheek in Islam, it is more like an eye for an eye mentality.
So you wouldn't even noticed that on the new year's rapes in Cologne, Germany, all the rapes were committed by Muslims and the reason is based on Islamic culture and dress standards.
All those women were dressing like "whores" according to Islamic tradition and the bad Muslims would not have it and had to penalized the infractors.

How can you trust a crazy dictator trying to build nuclear weapons?
Aren't you afraid they would use them if they had them?
All Trump wants is to stop the nuclear weapons factory.

Flight to the Holy Land: Europe's Jewish Exodus (Part 1)
There is only one real reason for the Exodus, "Muslims".
I'm fine here too, (I'm in New York City) but it's not just about me and you, don't you think?

I have no reason to hate anyone, no matter what cultur or religion they have, if someone hurt me does not mean i must hurt them back.

I do not defend anyone who do ill will but i dont look at if they are muslims or other religion, i see the person who do it.

You asked : How can you trust a crazy dictator trying to build nuclear weapons?

Iran has signed a contract of not use nuclear weapon, but America withdraw from it. Of Iran and USA who has been in most wars since 1945? AS far as my history lesson goes, that is USA. But not every Americans are evil because of that.
And if you look at the numbers of who has the most nuclear weapon in the world, USA is almost on the top of that list. Iran is not.

I have no enemies personally so i can be friends with anyone

 

[Raymann]

If we are clearly being attacked, that is true, but we should do what we can to seek peace first.

You know the story of the Byzantines killing the messenger, don't you?
They could have asked the Byzantines to punish the killers and find a peaceful outcome but no, none of that followed.
War was never declared, and the Byzantines never attacked the Muslims. The Muslims attacked first and the order was to kill them all unless they converted to Islam.

I'm out of time, I'll answer all your other disagreements later.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

You know the story of the Byzantines killing the messenger, don't you?
They could have asked the Byzantines to punish the killers and find a peaceful outcome but no, none of that followed.
War was never declared, and the Byzantines never attacked the Muslims. The Muslims attacked first and the order was to kill them all unless they converted to Islam.

We've already been through that one - Muhammad (pbuh) sent a messenger as an act of peace and in good faith and that messenger was ruthlessly killed, a declaration of war in those times.

 

[Shad]

It begins in Exodus 19, when God begins to instruction the Israelites how to prepare for his visitation to them, because he tells Moses in verse 9 that the people would see and hear him themselves, not just through Moses.


9 And the LORD said unto Moses: 'Lo, I come unto thee in a thick cloud, that the people may hear when I speak with thee, and may also believe thee for ever.' And Moses told the words of the people unto the LORD.

So God gives various instructions, all designed to create an aura of sanctity and critical significance. For three days the people prepare and purify themselves. Then they gather at the lower part of the mountain.

In Exodus 20 it says,

"1 And God spoke all these words, saying..."

Notice is does NOT say, "And the LORD spoke unto Moses saying, Speak unto the Children of Israel," the way it does all those other times. Why is THIS time different???? Because this time he is speaking to all the people at the bottom of the mountain who have gathered. The giving of the ten commandments was heard by ALL. I know everyone has this "Charlton Heston" idea in their minds, but that's not what in the text.

Exdous 19:25 resolves the error you made.

And of course all of Israel consents to the covenant, in Chapter 24 v 7:

7 'All that God has spoken, we will do and we will hear.'

24:6, 24:5, 24:7, etc. You didn't read the chapter.


Just Moses playing Chinese whispers.

 

[LuisDantas]

Right, we should indeed do all that we can to avoid and prevent war, but when it comes to our door despite everything, then we have that right.

Perhaps. And quite possibly we do not.

In any case, I don't think that a respectable argument can be made that "God" has given anyone, ever, such a right.

 

[sooda]

So you have studied Islam on the internet?

NO in Saudis Arabia, Libya, Kuwait and Lebanon.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Exdous 19:25 resolves the error you made.



24:6, 24:5, 24:7, etc. You didn't read the chapter.


Just Moses playing Chinese whispers.

I don't see how. Please quote the verses and point out exactly where.

 

[Raymann]

Muhammad (pbuh) sent a messenger as an act of peace and in good faith and that messenger was ruthlessly killed, a declaration of war in those times.

I don't see any evidence supporting your claim that killing a messenger is an automatic declaration of war.
As already explained, even a declaration of war is not an attack and the Byzantines didn't attack the Muslims. The whole idea of "attack only when being attacked" crumbles here, right in the heart of the most sacred scriptures (the Quran).

The invasions of Afghanistan and Iraq indeed justify fighting back, but only against combatants.

It is true that they didn't kill women and children but they took them as slaves.
Isn't that an aggression against NON COMBATANTS?
They would then give the fighters a share of the newly acquired slaves and rape them. All this was very legal under Islam. It is not rape if it is your slave.

So you are against Muslims even being given jobs where they fully deserve them (having gone through the usual application process)?

I didn't say that. I said that countries like Sweden, Norway, Germany, etc give the Muslim refugees, housing, money and other benefits (including jobs) and in return the crime rates skyrocket (rapes and sexual assaults of all kinds). That seems to be an obvious consequence of massive Muslim immigration.

Violence increase in Sweden

Migrants bringing crime to Sweden?

Testing Tolerance: Swedes are saying ‘enough’, to immigrants, no-go zones, sharia law & gang rapes

A minority do. (Try to change the local culture). But most of us just want to be left alone to go about our lives like everyone else.

I understand it is always a minority but the violent minority is always the one leading the way and the most visible one.

Raymann said↑
"Western women now have to cover up or they risk to be raped".

Where do you see this happening?

So many rapes, so few police: Swedish authorities 'can't cope' with growth in rape cases

Immigrant rape statistics in Sweden

1 in 4 Swedish women will be raped - The Political Cesspool

Antisemitism by Muslim immigrants

Evidence please.

Antisemitism incidents fuel migrant debate in Germany

And there are many more incidents to prove it.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

I don't see any evidence supporting your claim that killing a messenger is an automatic declaration of war.

I think it was widely considered so back in those times.

even a declaration of war is not an attack and the Byzantines didn't attack the Muslims.

Except a declaration of war is just that - a declaration of war. Which invites a response in kind.

It is true that they didn't kill women and children but they took them as slaves.
Isn't that an aggression against NON COMBATANTS?

I wasn't justifying the actions of those Muslims in those countries who did/do this, I was simply saying that an invasion of those countries means that a military response (against the combatant invaders) is justifiable.

I said that countries like Sweden, Norway, Germany, etc give the Muslim refugees, housing, money and other benefits (including jobs)

Right, and that is on those countries. I'm not a fan of this kind of welfare support generally myself (but then I'm a right-libertarian).

and in return the crime rates skyrocket (rapes and sexual assaults of all kinds).

I don't think this is a simple case of cause and effect.

That seems to be an obvious consequence of massive Muslim immigration.

No it doesn't. I don't think it's quite as simple as you make it out to be. Crime is the result of many different factors.

"Western women now have to cover up or they risk to be raped".

So there have been some rapes by Muslim migrants. Amongst such a large influx of Muslim migrants, there were always going to be some criminals.

Where is the evidence that Western women now have to cover up (to reduce the risk of being raped)?

Antisemitism by Muslim immigrants

There is a problem with antisemitism amongst Muslims. But I don't think this is the reason why most of the French Jews who have been leaving France have been leaving France.

 

[Raymann]

Except a declaration of war is just that - a declaration of war. Which invites a response in kind.

A response "in Kind" would be accepting the declaration of war and declaring war back at them, period.
Initiating the attack with the aim at killing all of them unless they convert to Islam seems a bit disproportioned.

Raymann said: ↑
and in return the crime rates skyrocket (rapes and sexual assaults of all kinds).

I don't think this is a simple case of cause and effect.

Think again, it is pretty obvious that it is a case of cause and effect.
You are right that the cause doesn't have a simple reason but no matter how complex the reason is, the result is the same.
Massive Muslim immigration = increase in rapes and sexual assaults.
There are now a number of countries with the same exact problem. We can't keep ignoring the problem.
Think about this for a moment:
Young Muslims cannot have sex outside of marriage.
I guess that includes the use of prostitutes, am I right?.
Masturbation is haram in Islam, for the most part.
Basically these young men have to endure one of the most powerful natural urges human beings can have and do nothing about it.
Western men don't have any of these problems.
Could that be part of the problem?
These guys go to a crowded place and turn into animals and in a weird way I understand them.
It is a religion/cultural problem unique to Muslims in general.

I don't think this is the reason (Muslim antisemitism) why most of the French Jews who have been leaving France have been leaving France.

Well, you're wrong, that is the MAIN reason.
In case you didn't notice, the man interviewed said, "people are looking at us lately". he meant Muslims, new immigrants.
I don't know why exactly but Muslims today seem to be the more anti semitic group of people I know.
As always it is a minority of the whole Muslim population but still a very significant number of them.
I understand that Christians used to be very anti semitic also but for the most part that is not the case nowadays.

 

[Shad]

I don't see how. Please quote the verses and point out exactly where.

Did you read those verses? All are of Moses talking to God and God talking to Mose. Moses then tells the people not God. Ergo the verses refuted your claims.

 

[sooda]

I don't see any evidence supporting your claim that killing a messenger is an automatic declaration of war.
As already explained, even a declaration of war is not an attack and the Byzantines didn't attack the Muslims. The whole idea of "attack only when being attacked" crumbles here, right in the heart of the most sacred scriptures (the Quran).

It is true that they didn't kill women and children but they took them as slaves.
Isn't that an aggression against NON COMBATANTS?
They would then give the fighters a share of the newly acquired slaves and rape them. All this was very legal under Islam. It is not rape if it is your slave.
I didn't say that. I said that countries like Sweden, Norway, Germany, etc give the Muslim refugees, housing, money and other benefits (including jobs) and in return the crime rates skyrocket (rapes and sexual assaults of all kinds). That seems to be an obvious consequence of massive Muslim immigration.

Violence increase in Sweden

Migrants bringing crime to Sweden?

Testing Tolerance: Swedes are saying ‘enough’, to immigrants, no-go zones, sharia law & gang rapes


I understand it is always a minority but the violent minority is always the one leading the way and the most visible one.

Raymann said↑
"Western women now have to cover up or they risk to be raped".


So many rapes, so few police: Swedish authorities 'can't cope' with growth in rape cases

Immigrant rape statistics in Sweden

1 in 4 Swedish women will be raped - The Political Cesspool

Antisemitism by Muslim immigrants


Antisemitism incidents fuel migrant debate in Germany

And there are many more incidents to prove it.

What other possible would you send a messenger for?????

 

[sooda]

A response "in Kind" would be accepting the declaration of war and declaring war back at them, period.
Initiating the attack with the aim at killing all of them unless they convert to Islam seems a bit disproportioned.

Raymann said: ↑
and in return the crime rates skyrocket (rapes and sexual assaults of all kinds).

Think again, it is pretty obvious that it is a case of cause and effect.
You are right that the cause doesn't have a simple reason but no matter how complex the reason is, the result is the same.
Massive Muslim immigration = increase in rapes and sexual assaults.
There are now a number of countries with the same exact problem. We can't keep ignoring the problem.
Think about this for a moment:
Young Muslims cannot have sex outside of marriage.
I guess that includes the use of prostitutes, am I right?.
Masturbation is haram in Islam, for the most part.
Basically these young men have to endure one of the most powerful natural urges human beings can have and do nothing about it.
Western men don't have any of these problems.
Could that be part of the problem?
These guys go to a crowded place and turn into animals and in a weird way I understand them.
It is a religion/cultural problem unique to Muslims in general.
Well, you're wrong, that is the MAIN reason.
In case you didn't notice, the man interviewed said, "people are looking at us lately". he meant Muslims, new immigrants.
I don't know why exactly but Muslims today seem to be the more anti semitic group of people I know.
As always it is a minority of the whole Muslim population but still a very significant number of them.
I understand that Christians used to be very anti semitic also but for the most part that is not the case nowadays.

Israel has been on the dole for 70 years while we have fought Iraq, Libya,and Afghanistan... and they too are semites.

 

[Raymann]

What other possible would you send a messenger for?????

I'm not sure what you're asking here.
The Muslim messenger purpose was to promote Islam and suggest to the Byzantines they should convert to Islam.
The Byzantines said no thanks and killed him.
You can say it was barbaric or inappropriate but that was in tune with the times and it was not a declaration of war just a "keep your religion to yourself" message.

Israel has been on the dole for 70 years while we have fought Iraq, Libya,and Afghanistan... and they too are semites.

I don't know if that has anything to do with something I said.

 

[The_Fisher_King]

A response "in Kind" would be accepting the declaration of war and declaring war back at them, period.

I'd say a declaration of war - and one that involves killing your messenger - invited more than a simple 'We declare war on you back' back in those times.

Young Muslims cannot have sex outside of marriage.

Officially, yes, but that doesn't stop everyone! Moreover, Islam isn't the only religion which prohibits sex outside of marriage.

Masturbation is haram in Islam, for the most part.

Again, not specific to Islam. And again I'd suggest that despite the official position, some at least will masturbate.

These guys go to a crowded place and turn into animals and in a weird way I understand them.

A small number of guys, criminals who can't control themselves.

It is a religion/cultural problem unique to Muslims in general.

Given that these sexual norms are not the sole preserve of Islam, I don't think we can say that.

Well, you're wrong, that is the MAIN reason.
In case you didn't notice, the man interviewed said, "people are looking at us lately". he meant Muslims, new immigrants.

French Jews have been leaving France for Israel for decades. The Israeli government actively encourages it - and not just from France - and has been doing so for a while. Besides, some return to France, perhaps because of difficulties adapting to life in Israel or because they feel more French than Israeli.

 

[sooda]

A response "in Kind" would be accepting the declaration of war and declaring war back at them, period.
Initiating the attack with the aim at killing all of them unless they convert to Islam seems a bit disproportioned.

Raymann said: ↑
and in return the crime rates skyrocket (rapes and sexual assaults of all kinds).

Think again, it is pretty obvious that it is a case of cause and effect.
You are right that the cause doesn't have a simple reason but no matter how complex the reason is, the result is the same.
Massive Muslim immigration = increase in rapes and sexual assaults.
There are now a number of countries with the same exact problem. We can't keep ignoring the problem.
Think about this for a moment:
Young Muslims cannot have sex outside of marriage.
I guess that includes the use of prostitutes, am I right?.
Masturbation is haram in Islam, for the most part.
Basically these young men have to endure one of the most powerful natural urges human beings can have and do nothing about it.
Western men don't have any of these problems.
Could that be part of the problem?
These guys go to a crowded place and turn into animals and in a weird way I understand them.
It is a religion/cultural problem unique to Muslims in general.
Well, you're wrong, that is the MAIN reason.
In case you didn't notice, the man interviewed said, "people are looking at us lately". he meant Muslims, new immigrants.
I don't know why exactly but Muslims today seem to be the more anti semitic group of people I know.
As always it is a minority of the whole Muslim population but still a very significant number of them.
I understand that Christians used to be very anti semitic also but for the most part that is not the case nowadays.

Don't you remember how Ariel Sharon ticked off the French Jews.. He insisted they were in danger and needed to move themselves and their money to Israel.