Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Huh?
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Why is it *necessary* to believe (as a Christian) that the Bible has no errors?
- Thread starter Deidre
- Start date
What do you mean HUH? What part of what I stated is confusing you? Did you not understand it : i.e., you did not comprehend what the English words meant or is it that you are expressing an emotional disagreement with the response "HUH"?
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I was not referring to written words nor was I referring to an authority. I am not sure what you are thinking about my claims. Basically all I said was that even if you are unaware of something a claim that is literally meaningful will still have a truth value.
I do not see pressing a written word there. Your claim sounds as if you are saying I am quoting authority or something.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
The claimed error would not be in God's message to man. But, rather, the necessary step of human interpretation involved in taking that word and writing it down.
leibowde84
Veteran Member
Can you provide the verse, if you don't mind?
Most Christians subscribe to a denomination/sect in which the bible is inspired, not infallible.
5-12/13
And Allah had already taken a covenant from the Children of Israel, and We delegated from among them twelve leaders. And Allah said, "I am with you. If you establish prayer and give zakah and believe in My messengers and support them and loan Allah a goodly loan, I will surely remove from you your misdeeds and admit you to gardens beneath which rivers flow. But whoever of you disbelieves after that has certainly strayed from the soundness of the way."
So for their breaking of the covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard. They distort words from their [proper] usages and have forgotten a portion of that of which they were reminded. And you will still observe deceit among them, except a few of them. But pardon them and overlook [their misdeeds]. Indeed, Allah loves the doers of good.
Desert Snake
Veteran Member
So you have no evidence, no argument. That's why I don't take your word for your comments, or find them credible.
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Thief
Rogue Theologian
so....you don't lean on previous works?
and your speech is unique and your own?
If you doubt that is YOU doing it. Truth values have nothing to do with YOU. If you were never born world events would not change. Asking for evidence is a form of sense verification. That is you must use one of your famous five senses to become aware. It is funny that most religions require faith which is not sense verification. You are at odds because you would rather be practical.
I am curious what you believe is a part of the Holy Spirit "experience". Is it just a feeling, or is there a purpose behind it? What is it suppose to do in you in terms of changing the way you relate to God and the world?
The Holy Spirit is actually referred to as the downpayment of the fullness of what God has for us, and not the end in itself. Ephesians 1:14, 2 Corinthians 1:22, 2 Corinthians 5:5
That statement is true, however, there's a lot more to our relationship with the Holy Spirit than just knowing He is there.
In the verse just before that he says, "If you love me, keep my commands".
And just a little further day he says: John 14:23-25
All throughout John 15 you see Jesus link the abiding of God, the Holy Spirit, in us with loving God. And loving God is defined as obedience to God.
I ask my original question out of concern; because we are to walk by faith and not by our natural senses. (2 Corinthians 5:7).
We can discern truth through our senses once they've been trained to do so ( Hebrews 5:14 ), It is a potentially dangerous thing to let yourself be led around by sensations alone without grounding in genuine spiritual truth which comes only from God, because God is not the only one capable of triggering emotions or feelings in your body.
That is why the Bible is important as the reliable recorded words of Jesus and his disciples. It is the standard by which we can judge truth while we are growing in our ability to discern it.
The danger of throwing out the Bible and just being led by what you feel internally is that you may find yourself not keeping the commands of Jesus, not hearing his voice and obeying his words, which puts one in danger of losing that place of abiding with him.
Some decieve themselves into believing that Jesus still abides with them because they feel certain things, even while they are in the midst of blatantly rebelling against the way God would have them live. Which is why Jesus warned: Matthew 7:21-23
God is essentially relational, and our relationship with him through the Holy Spirit is that of a relationship with a person.
It's not just a force. It's not just a feeling. It's our way of communing with God until the day we will see Jesus face to face. As with any relationship there is an exchange, and expectations, and not just a feeling we experience and leave it at that.
Our relationship with God is not directly comparable to any single earthly analogy - which is why the scripture refers to our relationship to God to that of a father, husband, king, friend, and master, in an effort to encompass the breadth and depth of who God is to us.
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leibowde84
Veteran Member
The point is that the men who wrote it down could have added "fault".
lol Thank you for your concern, but I'm not 6 years old.
Love how people feel there is a cookie cutter way for all to experience faith. Whatevah you say, Rise.
Thief
Rogue Theologian
way too many assumptions.....
I have few doubts.
and the body having five senses is designed for learning.
we ARE here to learn all that we can before we die.
there is no mystery to life and living.
and it is funny.....people nodding their heads without verification.
just cause some preacher thumped a book in their faces and demanded an...amen
Thief
Rogue Theologian
I see God as Almighty.....and He might not care....
and the Carpenter pronounced.....brother and fellow servant....
can't change that
lol Thank you for your concern, but I'm not 6 years old.
Love how people feel there is a cookie cutter way for all to experience faith. Whatevah you say, Rise.
I did not intend to make you feel demeaned in any way by the information I was presenting about what the Bible says.
I am genuinely interested in what kind of experience you had, and how that changes things for you. I embrace the things of the Holy Spirit to a very high degree. I am not one of those Christians who believes that experiencing and actively communing with the Holy Spirit is irrelevant and that the only thing that matters is passively reading the bible.
I've had my own personal experiences that led me to embrace God's truth. I can also relate to your reluctance to accept the scripture as entirely true. I knew in my heart that what a preacher was saying about Jesus was true, but it took a long time of personal study before I could trust that the Bible was reliable enough in it's transmission to be an accurate recording of the words and acts of Jesus.
However, you did ask why believing in the authority of the bible as God's word is necessary, which is why I went into explaining why it is potentially dangerous to not have that anchor of truth as a guidance to our own experience. Which is not to make assumptions about where you are at, but simply to illustrate the point I was making.
A positive example of how the bible helps us stand on truth despite our experience: Todd White prayed for over a thousand people to get healed on the street before he saw anyone healed in the name of Jesus. Now he sees it everywhere he goes, everyday. His experience was telling him that God didn't heal anymore today, but the Bible told him that God did. He chose to believe what the Bible told him was true regardless of what his circumstances were. That's faith in what is true even when it is unseen.
On the other hand, there is an extreme example that illustrates the negative consequences of disregarding God's written word and truth to us: A particular minister (who was a newer believer, not mature in the Lord) was mislead into believing that the Holy Spirit told him to divorce his wife, marry someone else, leave his children and go off to do ministry. A check against God's written word would show that God would never tell them to do such a thing as it violates the moral standard Jesus already laid out for us. He ignored friends who told him that God would not tell him to do that. He later realized he was wrong, but the damage was done.
I've personally seen people led into bad situations by following what they thought was the Holy Spirit, or causing harm to people by claiming to prophesy in God's name when it was really coming out of their own heart.
But I've seen far more of the Holy Spirit leading people to make good decisions, and speaking through them to bring words of life to others.
That is why I would say I have a heartfelt concern for any follower of Jesus who doesn't see value in God's written word to us, because I've seen some of them get off the rails and cause harm to themselves or others because they had not learned to discern the genuine leading of the Holy Spirit.
I don't want to make assumptions about what you believe or where you stand, which is why I also asked questions about your experience and how you believe that lines up with what is written in the Bible.
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Desert Snake
Veteran Member
Unless someone is claiming that they are ''just reading their Bible'', and not taking anything else into consideration, it's irrelevant
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