Why is it *necessary* to believe (as a Christian) that the Bible has no errors?

[Desert Snake]

My position is x, therefore I like the color blue.

the y position does not like the color blue

therefore, anyone that I disagree with

holds the y position, and does not like the color blue

 

[Deidre]

I did not intend to make you feel demeaned in any way by the information I was presenting about what the Bible says.

I am genuinely interested in what kind of experience you had, and how that changes things for you. I embrace the things of the Holy Spirit to a very high degree. I am not one of those Christians who believes that experiencing and actively communing with the Holy Spirit is irrelevant and that the only thing that matters is passively reading the bible.
I've had my own personal experiences that led me to embrace God's truth. I can also relate to your reluctance to accept the scripture as entirely true. I knew in my heart that what a preacher was saying about Jesus was true, but it took a long time of personal study before I could trust that the Bible was reliable enough in it's transmission to be an accurate recording of the words and acts of Jesus.

However, you did ask why believing in the authority of the bible as God's word is necessary, which is why I went into explaining why it is potentially dangerous to not have that anchor of truth as a guidance to our own experience. Which is not to make assumptions about where you are at, but simply to illustrate the point I was making.

A positive example of how the bible helps us stand on truth despite our experience: Todd White prayed for over a thousand people to get healed on the street before he saw anyone healed in the name of Jesus. Now he sees it everywhere he goes, everyday. His experience was telling him that God didn't heal anymore today, but the Bible told him that God did. He chose to believe what the Bible told him was true regardless of what his circumstances were. That's faith in what is true even when it is unseen.

On the other hand, there is an extreme example that illustrates the negative consequences of disregarding God's written word and truth to us: A particular minister (who was a newer believer, not mature in the Lord) was mislead into believing that the Holy Spirit told him to divorce his wife, marry someone else, leave his children and go off to do ministry. A check against God's written word would show that God would never tell them to do such a thing as it violates the moral standard Jesus already laid out for us. He ignored friends who told him that God would not tell him to do that. He later realized he was wrong, but the damage was done.

I've personally seen people led into bad situations by following what they thought was the Holy Spirit, or causing harm to people by claiming to prophesy in God's name when it was really coming out of their own heart.
But I've seen far more of the Holy Spirit leading people to make good decisions, and speaking through them to bring words of life to others.
That is why I would say I have a heartfelt concern for any follower of Jesus who doesn't see value in God's written word to us, because I've seen some of them get off the rails and cause harm to themselves or others because they had not learned to discern the genuine leading of the Holy Spirit.

I don't want to make assumptions about what you believe or where you stand, which is why I also asked questions about your experience and how you believe that lines up with what is written in the Bible.

This is nice of you to say, and offer. I will come back later and share with you, 'what happened.'

 

[Logikal]

My position is x, therefore I like the color blue.

the y position does not like the color blue

therefore, anyone that I disagree with

holds the y position, and does not like the color blue

This is a horrible attempt at classical logic. You break so many rules . . .
You are supposed to use categorical forms correctly and you fail basic rules.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I think people take verses like 2 Timothy 3:16 -

"All Scripture is God-breathed and is useful for teaching, rebuking, correcting and training in righteousness,"

aka

"All scripture is given by inspiration of God, and is profitable for doctrine, for reproof, for correction, for instruction in righteousness:"

and switch God-breathed/inspired as well useful/profitable for other things so it becomes an authoritative deity-like thing on it's own. In other words the finger pointing at the moon becomes Divine, perfect, flawless...they argue about the wrinkles, length of nail, etc. and never glimpse the Moon.

I think there is such a thing as great Christians who hardly know any of the Bible. Some of the ones I've known who are more saintly, Christ-like, vibrant, oozing compassion and good energy than most. Doesn't mean as much coming from a Heathen but still

Oops

 

[Deidre]

I did not intend to make you feel demeaned in any way by the information I was presenting about what the Bible says.

I am genuinely interested in what kind of experience you had, and how that changes things for you. I embrace the things of the Holy Spirit to a very high degree. I am not one of those Christians who believes that experiencing and actively communing with the Holy Spirit is irrelevant and that the only thing that matters is passively reading the bible.
I've had my own personal experiences that led me to embrace God's truth. I can also relate to your reluctance to accept the scripture as entirely true. I knew in my heart that what a preacher was saying about Jesus was true, but it took a long time of personal study before I could trust that the Bible was reliable enough in it's transmission to be an accurate recording of the words and acts of Jesus.

However, you did ask why believing in the authority of the bible as God's word is necessary, which is why I went into explaining why it is potentially dangerous to not have that anchor of truth as a guidance to our own experience. Which is not to make assumptions about where you are at, but simply to illustrate the point I was making.

A positive example of how the bible helps us stand on truth despite our experience: Todd White prayed for over a thousand people to get healed on the street before he saw anyone healed in the name of Jesus. Now he sees it everywhere he goes, everyday. His experience was telling him that God didn't heal anymore today, but the Bible told him that God did. He chose to believe what the Bible told him was true regardless of what his circumstances were. That's faith in what is true even when it is unseen.

On the other hand, there is an extreme example that illustrates the negative consequences of disregarding God's written word and truth to us: A particular minister (who was a newer believer, not mature in the Lord) was mislead into believing that the Holy Spirit told him to divorce his wife, marry someone else, leave his children and go off to do ministry. A check against God's written word would show that God would never tell them to do such a thing as it violates the moral standard Jesus already laid out for us. He ignored friends who told him that God would not tell him to do that. He later realized he was wrong, but the damage was done.

I've personally seen people led into bad situations by following what they thought was the Holy Spirit, or causing harm to people by claiming to prophesy in God's name when it was really coming out of their own heart.
But I've seen far more of the Holy Spirit leading people to make good decisions, and speaking through them to bring words of life to others.
That is why I would say I have a heartfelt concern for any follower of Jesus who doesn't see value in God's written word to us, because I've seen some of them get off the rails and cause harm to themselves or others because they had not learned to discern the genuine leading of the Holy Spirit.

I don't want to make assumptions about what you believe or where you stand, which is why I also asked questions about your experience and how you believe that lines up with what is written in the Bible.

Okay. So let me back up first. I left Christianity 4 years ago, and I won't get into all the reasons why, as it might bore you. lol But I just felt like I was going through the motions. The Bible was illogical, and the path eventually led to an atheistic stance. But, I was never a hardcore atheist, perhaps agnostic. Always felt hope for something more, but not entirely believing anymore. Jesus was definitely out of the picture, I mean, I hadn't prayed to Him, or felt anything at all about Him. I just felt indifferent after a while, and you know how it is...you go through life, and things happen, and it causes you to wonder if something else exists. I looked at Buddhism, which is pretty awesome actually. Then, Islam. Then, Deism. Went back to atheism. And decided to just remain there. Wondering, but not believing.

Then, about three weeks ago, this tremendous heat...like a rush of heat went through me out of the blue. And it hurt my hands almost. I know this sounds insane. I was sober. lol I'm not a believer in these types of things, but this happened. This feeling, I felt it. And then this rush of peace and inexplicable joy came over me. And I said Jesus' name, like out of nowhere. And then for the rest of the day, i prayed, and felt like He was right there. And NOTHING has been the same ever since. I know, this sounds insane. I think about it and laugh, because I had let go of the whole Jesus story. To think of Him in a different light, now is remarkable. I no longer just read about Him, or pray to Him...I actually have experienced Him. His love. That is the only explanation for this peace. And He came to bring us this new life...new way of viewing life. And I'm not all caught up in the afterlife etc...but, I do believe in heaven, and I never did when I was a Christian the first time around.

I see people in a different light. People I dislike, but I see them with spiritual eyes now. I sound like one of 'those' people lol But, I'm not insane...this happened. Something happened outside of me, and changed my life...and now, I wish to read the Bible again, and when I do...it's with new eyes. Still much of it is a bit out there lol But, I've read stories of people online, who have had similar experiences as me, and they say the nearly identical things...that this world is sort of meh, after something like that happens. I mean, I love those in my life, and am grateful for my work, and friendships and health, etc. But, all of that is not enough...it pales in comparison to this experience.

Thank you for letting me share this with you.

 

[Deidre]

@Rise - one more thing. I never said I don't think the 'written word' has no value. The title of the thread is...why is it necessary to believe that the Bible has no errors? Meaning, that maybe somewhere along the way, the message was tainted a little. Not necessarily on purpose, but just because we are human. u know?

Do you believe in God?

 

[Logikal]

way too many assumptions.....

I have few doubts.

and the body having five senses is designed for learning.
we ARE here to learn all that we can before we die.

there is no mystery to life and living.

and it is funny.....people nodding their heads without verification.
just cause some preacher thumped a book in their faces and demanded an...amen

You just might as well say you are biased in favor of SCIENCE. That if you can't sense verify something then you will not believe. You will likely have exceptions at your own will of course. This is what makes emotional thinking the dominant factor in thinking. This is primarily what a PRACTICAL THINKER does.

If you are the band Europe, you sing "The Final Countdown". Its what you do! If you have 15 minutes you can buy insurance from Geico. Hey its practical though! Is that all you care about? The result and what it means to YOU?
There is more to life than that. I think you have been cheated.

 

[Deidre]

5-12/13

And Allah had already taken a covenant from the Children of Israel, and We delegated from among them twelve leaders. And Allah said, "I am with you. If you establish prayer and give zakah and believe in My messengers and support them and loan Allah a goodly loan, I will surely remove from you your misdeeds and admit you to gardens beneath which rivers flow. But whoever of you disbelieves after that has certainly strayed from the soundness of the way."

So for their breaking of the covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard. They distort words from their [proper] usages and have forgotten a portion of that of which they were reminded. And you will still observe deceit among them, except a few of them. But pardon them and overlook [their misdeeds]. Indeed, Allah loves the doers of good.

How interesting is this, Godobeyer! Wow.

 

[Thief]

You just might as well say you are biased in favor of SCIENCE. That if you can't sense verify something then you will not believe. You will likely have exceptions at your own will of course. This is what makes emotional thinking the dominant factor in thinking. This is primarily what a PRACTICAL THINKER does.

If you are the band Europe, you sing "The Final Countdown". Its what you do! If you have 15 minutes you can buy insurance from Geico. Hey its practical though! Is that all you care about? The result and what it means to YOU?
There is more to life than that. I think you have been cheated.

I do believe in God because of science.
that main line of thought.....cause and effect.....
the universe is the effect....and God is the Cause.

cheated?...I think not

 

[Thief]

5-12/13

And Allah had already taken a covenant from the Children of Israel, and We delegated from among them twelve leaders. And Allah said, "I am with you. If you establish prayer and give zakah and believe in My messengers and support them and loan Allah a goodly loan, I will surely remove from you your misdeeds and admit you to gardens beneath which rivers flow. But whoever of you disbelieves after that has certainly strayed from the soundness of the way."

So for their breaking of the covenant We cursed them and made their hearts hard. They distort words from their [proper] usages and have forgotten a portion of that of which they were reminded. And you will still observe deceit among them, except a few of them. But pardon them and overlook [their misdeeds]. Indeed, Allah loves the doers of good.

it bears a vague resemblance to the Prodigal Son parable...
but I can see it

 

[Desert Snake]

This is a horrible attempt at classical logic. You break so many rules . . .
You are supposed to use categorical forms correctly and you fail basic rules.

Great.

 

[Logikal]

I do believe in God because of science.
that main line of thought.....cause and effect.....
the universe is the effect....and God is the Cause.

cheated?...I think not

If science is required where does FAITH come in? What religion do you belong to? Christianity REQUIRES FAITH for instance. Islam requires FAITH as well. Faith is defined specifically in Christianity a certain way and NOT in your local DICTIONARY --people who need crutches-- run to. Something is off if you need science to believe in God. How good is this SCIENCE you claim to have? Is it good enough to a professional scientist like Laurence Krauss who is atheist? Will your science work on him?

 

[Deidre]

why am i not receiving notifications for this thread? *sob* first world problem, but still.

 

[Deidre]

If science is required where does FAITH come in? What religion do you belong to? Christianity REQUIRES FAITH for instance. Islam requires FAITH as well. Faith is defined specifically in Christianity a certain way and NOT in your local DICTIONARY --people who need crutches-- run to. Something is off if you need science to believe in God. How good is this SCIENCE you claim to have? Is it good enough to a professional scientist like Laurence Krauss who is atheist? Will your science work on him?

maybe he means not due to science, he believes in God, but because of the enormity of science, that he believes. because of science, because of what science reveals, he believes. maybe?
not entirely sure, but that's my take.

 

[Logikal]

maybe he means not due to science, he believes in God, but because of the enormity of science, that he believes. because of science, because of what science reveals, he believes. maybe?
not entirely sure, but that's my take.

Absolutely NOT! It is clear to any Christian or Muslim that FAITH and SCIENCE do not co-exist. For if you have Science then you WILL wait until you are AWARE of something to be true as opposed to God telling you x is true. He believes "All unicorns are White animals" is a false claim because he can't sense verify it. So how will he believe God if God says homosexuality is a CHOICE and not genetic. Even if being gay was genetic, God could turn a gay person straight by HIS power if he had FAITH what is Thief to do? How would he verify that? Faith by definition requires belief and confirmation of what you are told without proof (your senses verifying anything). Faith is you believe what you can't verify right here right now as far as the Kingdom of God ONLY --not applicable to fields outside of that.

 

[Deidre]

Absolutely NOT! It is clear to any Christian or Muslim that FAITH and SCIENCE do not co-exist. For if you have Science then you WILL wait until you are AWARE of something to be true as opposed to God telling you x is true. He believes "All unicorns are White animals" is a false claim because he can't sense verify it. So how will he believe God if God says homosexuality is a CHOICE and not genetic. Even if being gay was genetic, God could turn a gay person straight by HIS power if he had FAITH what is Thief to do? How would he verify that? Faith by definition requires belief and confirmation of what you are told without proof (your senses verifying anything). Faith is you believe what you can't verify right here right now as far as the Kingdom of God ONLY --not applicable to fields outside of that.

I'm not entirely sure he's stating that, though. You are assuming he CHOOSES science over faith, and that science is proving God, to him. He might not be saying that at all, you know?

 

[Logikal]

I'm not entirely sure he's stating that, though. You are assuming he CHOOSES science over faith, and that science is proving God, to him. He might not be saying that at all, you know?

That maybe what he meant to say. I get that. But what he did say is an error and a no-no for a main religion. I am not talking about HIM per se but the idea he mistakenly made is HUGE. He said he believes God exists because of science. This is a no-no. Faith is I accept whatever God says . . . .
Science says SHOW, PROVE, DEMONSTRATE, etc. I will not believe without . . .
Doubtful Thomas was rebuked for his thinking. Jesus made it very clear he was not pleased with that thinking. All claims are true or false objectively. Thomas doubted the claim "Jesus has Risen" and demanded sense verification. He eventually got what he asked for but was reprimanded at the same time. Not a cool thing at all.

If he says it was a typo no big deal to me. The idea that you can use science and faith are problematic: you cannot serve two masters.

 

[Deidre]

I hear you but science is the explanation of God's creation, not a man made replacement for it. Science isn't the creator, it's revealing what has been created so in some ways, it can be plausible to be a faithful "scientist." lol

I was totally lost and left the faith so it took an experience (not mere faith) to draw me back. I wouldn't have returned otherwise. Think we need to be careful to not become authoritative as to how others come to God.

That maybe what he meant to say. I get that. But what he did say is an error and a no-no for a main religion. I am not talking about HIM per se but the idea he mistakenly made is HUGE. He said he believes God exists because of science. This is a no-no. Faith is I accept whatever God says . . . .
Science says SHOW, PROVE, DEMONSTRATE, etc. I will not believe without . . .
Doubtful Thomas was rebuked for his thinking. Jesus made it very clear he was not pleased with that thinking. All claims are true or false objectively. Thomas doubted the claim "Jesus has Risen" and demanded sense verification. He eventually got what he asked for but was reprimanded at the same time. Not a cool thing at all.

If he says it was a typo no big deal to me. The idea that you can use science and faith are problematic: you cannot serve two masters.

 

[Rise]

Okay. So let me back up first. I left Christianity 4 years ago, and I won't get into all the reasons why, as it might bore you. lol But I just felt like I was going through the motions. The Bible was illogical, and the path eventually led to an atheistic stance. But, I was never a hardcore atheist, perhaps agnostic. Always felt hope for something more, but not entirely believing anymore. Jesus was definitely out of the picture, I mean, I hadn't prayed to Him, or felt anything at all about Him. I just felt indifferent after a while, and you know how it is...you go through life, and things happen, and it causes you to wonder if something else exists. I looked at Buddhism, which is pretty awesome actually. Then, Islam. Then, Deism. Went back to atheism. And decided to just remain there. Wondering, but not believing.

Then, about three weeks ago, this tremendous heat...like a rush of heat went through me out of the blue. And it hurt my hands almost. I know this sounds insane. I was sober. lol I'm not a believer in these types of things, but this happened. This feeling, I felt it. And then this rush of peace and inexplicable joy came over me. And I said Jesus' name, like out of nowhere. And then for the rest of the day, i prayed, and felt like He was right there. And NOTHING has been the same ever since. I know, this sounds insane. I think about it and laugh, because I had let go of the whole Jesus story. To think of Him in a different light, now is remarkable. I no longer just read about Him, or pray to Him...I actually have experienced Him. His love. That is the only explanation for this peace. And He came to bring us this new life...new way of viewing life. And I'm not all caught up in the afterlife etc...but, I do believe in heaven, and I never did when I was a Christian the first time around.

I see people in a different light. People I dislike, but I see them with spiritual eyes now. I sound like one of 'those' people lol But, I'm not insane...this happened. Something happened outside of me, and changed my life...and now, I wish to read the Bible again, and when I do...it's with new eyes. Still much of it is a bit out there lol But, I've read stories of people online, who have had similar experiences as me, and they say the nearly identical things...that this world is sort of meh, after something like that happens. I mean, I love those in my life, and am grateful for my work, and friendships and health, etc. But, all of that is not enough...it pales in comparison to this experience.

Thank you for letting me share this with you.

Thank you for sharing that. I went from athiest to searching out many forms of new age thought and judaism before trusting in Jesus and surrendering to him.

I've experienced many similar things with heat/electric/pressure sensations, peace, love, joy, and a tangible feeling of being enveloped in his presence. My wife and many others I go know in the church have had their own experiences. I've actually experienced a lot more of that in the years after conversion, to much higher degrees, as I've pursued deeper relationship with God.

Many people in ministry have also had powerful encounters which God that changed their outlook on life. An example would be Heidi Baker, a missionary in Africa who went to the "Toronto blessing" revival in Canada and came back overwhelmed with God's love. From that point her ministry effectiveness exploded in Africa as she was moving in relationship with the Holy Spirit rather than by her own efforts.

One of the things that happened to me after I decided to surrender to Jesus and trust him was that I had an even greater desire to read the Bible and learn; and things in the bible just started making sense. The Holy Spirit was connecting dots in my mind that had previously confused me just a week before. I grew more in a month in my understanding of the Bible than I had grown in the six months prior when I was an unsure seeker of truth. I always thought it was interesting that it was from that place of putting faith in Jesus and trusting him that I started to see more of those questions answered.
I've also heard it said that one of the genuine marks of a true conversion is someone having a desire to read on God's written word, because as Jesus said his words are life to us that we need to consume as one would consume food to live.

 

[Deidre]

Thank you for sharing that. I went from athiest to searching out many forms of new age thought and judaism before trusting in Jesus and surrendering to him.

I've experienced many similar things with heat/electric/pressure sensations, peace, love, joy, and a tangible feeling of being enveloped in his presence. My wife and many others I go know in the church have had their own experiences. I've actually experienced a lot more of that in the years after conversion, to much higher degrees, as I've pursued deeper relationship with God.

Many people in ministry have also had powerful encounters which God that changed their outlook on life. An example would be Heidi Baker, a mission in Africa who went to the "Toronto blessing" revival in Canada and came back overwhelmed with God's love. From that point her ministry effectiveness exploded in Africa as she was moving in relationship with the Holy Spirit rather than by her own efforts.

One of the things that happened to me after I decided to surrender to Jesus and trust him was that I had an even greater desire to read the Bible and learn; and things in the bible just started making sense. The Holy Spirit was connecting dots in my mind that had previously confused me just a week before. I grew more in a month in my understanding of the Bible than I had grown in the six months prior when I was an unsure seeker of truth. I always thought it was interesting that it was from that place of putting faith in Jesus and trusting him that I started to see more of those questions answered.
I've also heard it said that one of the genuine marks of a true conversion is someone having a desire to read on God's written word, because as Jesus said his words are life to us that we need to consume as one would consume food to live.

This post deserves many more likes than just one.

Thank you for sharing this.