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Why is Jesus so famous? (Challenge to atheists)

Vouthon

Dominus Deus tuus ignis consumens est
Premium Member
Have you ever asked yourself, why Is Jesus so famous?

Jesus and Muhammad are often considered to be the most influential individuals in history, so yes, I certainly do ponder their "status" and the probable reasons why both men managed to cultivate such powerful legacies (and indeed, entirely new civilizations) posthumously.

The rise to global hegemony of early Christianity and Islam has been the subject of numerous academic studies and popular books.

Early Christianity, in the first three centuries, was largely an urban religion - successfully spreading to and diffused throughout cities, such as the capital Rome itself; Corinth; Galatia; Alexandria; Carthage; Phrygia and so on.

According to historical sociologists, there were roughly 6 million Christians in the Empire of some 60 million subjects in the year 300 C.E. (pre-Constantian shift), or about 10% of the total population of the Roman state, which is hardly negligible. Moreover, by the second century convert Christians or Christian 'sympathisers' had already wormed their way into the ruling hierarchy.

So, on this Jesus side of the equation (although this could quite plausibly be argued for Muhammad as well, given the honorific way he is esteemed in the later hadith traditions of the Sunnah), I've read an interesting theory from a group of social psychologists who argue that his portrayal in the gospels, New Testament letters and early Christian patristic tradition represents an especially strong incidence of what they call a "prestige hierarchy" and that this could help explain why his hagiographic figure appealed so well to people living in the Roman Empire (and beyond) in the first centuries of the common era.

Here are some excerpts from their study, published in Frontiers of Psychology journal (2019):


By Reverence, Not Fear: Prestige, Religion, and Autonomic Regulation in the Evolution of Cooperation



Recent evolutionary theories of religions emphasize their function as mechanisms for increasing prosociality...

Here, we argue that this mammalian physiology supports an alternative hierarchical system unique to humans: prestige. In contrast to dominance, which involves aversion, fear and shame, prestige hierarchies are characterized by physical proximity and eye-contact, as well as emotions like admiration and respect for leaders.

Prestige also directs the flow of cultural information between individuals and has been argued to have evolved in order to help individuals acquire high quality information. Here, we argue that not only does the mammalian autonomic pathway support prestige hierarchies, but that coupled with prestige biased social learning, it opens up a means for prestigious figures, including deities, to support the spread of prosocial behaviors...

Prestige psychology itself may rely on the evolved structure of the mammalian autonomic nervous system (ANS)...

The Christians saw Jesus as the restoration of the world order and believed that by having faith in him and a commitment to his values they would receive the same ability to escape death, that is, the promise of eternal life.

A cultural evolutionary reading of the Biblical texts portrays Jesus receiving deference from his followers in exchange for his fitness-relevant expertise in the domain of social norms (e.g., the behaviors required to live a moral life, how to navigate life’s challenges); the added expertise on how to overcome morbidity and obtain eternal life likely made him even more sought after.

Thus, the role of religious figures as knowledge-bringers (a key part of prestige systems) seems widespread. However, another part of our hypothesis is that prestigious, religious figures specifically advance prosocial behaviors in their flock.

While all of the world’s major religions and their leaders explicitly teach about almsgiving, charity, and generosity, we focus on here on early Christianity as an example of prosocial behavior emerging from a prestige hierarchy. In the New Testament, Jesus is portrayed as having a group of dedicated followers (i.e., the disciples) who follow him closely and receive direct teachings from him.

In artwork depicting Jesus delivering the Sermon on the Mount – a moralistic message and guide for living, including the commandment to love one’s neighbors and enemies as well as give to the needy – he is portrayed as sitting or standing only slightly above his disciples and the crowd, with an open body posture of both arms extended to his sides or one had gently raised. These gestures fit with description of prestige displays, which are less expansive than dominance displays (Henrich, 2016).

New Testament texts describing the dynamics between Jesus and the disciples also map onto ethnographic and psychological descriptions of prestige dynamics, including the leader-follower dynamics of “Big Men” societies (Henrich et al., 2015), where highly skilled individuals command respect and exert influence over a group of followers.

Like many other leaders, the character of Jesus portrayed in the New Testament appears to be a charismatic and highly skilled orator who had the purported power to perform miracles (i.e., heal the sick, feed the masses), which were received as acts of generosity.

A closer look at the rapid rise of Christianity in its first five centuries reveals how Jesus himself as well as the disciples who went on to preach his gospel (i.e., Paul) were successful not only in accumulating followers on his behalf and advocating for prosociality, but also in promoting prosocial behaviors amongst believers, which in turn further drove the growth of the fledgling religion.

In a 260-year period, Christianity rapidly expanded from an obscure Messianic cult movement in the far edge of the Eastern Roman empire to an estimated size of 5–7.5 million members (Stark, 1996)...

By the end of the second plague, the Plague of Cyprian from 251 to 266, classical society was severely “disrupted and demoralized” (Stark, 1996, p. 74). During this time, Pagan leaders and government officials offered no assistance or care for the sick, while Christianity – still a minor but increasingly growing movement – did...

These beliefs and behaviors are nested within a religious prestige hierarchy where followers are also motivated to attend to a central figures’ (i.e., Jesus’) expertise on how to obtain eternal life. The positive feedback loop effect of prestige, where an increase in the number of followers increases the prestige of the prestigious person, which in turn increases the figures’ sphere of influence, seems to have been a major part of Christianity’s success.

This, combined with the CREDS of Jesus himself like healing disease and providing food to the masses, as well as the crucifixion (which was interpreted as an extreme sacrifice, i.e., dying for the sins of humankind), would have increased prosociality within early Christianity.
 
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Starlight

Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
And if Christianity hadn't taken off do you think he still would be popular in Islam and Baha'i?
The best question is:

Why do three different religions believe in Jesus?
Is that a sign from God?
I believe so

And even some buddists and hindues believe Jesus was a holy soul\avatar of God
 

Justanatheist

Well-Known Member
Have you ever asked yourself, why Is Jesus so famous?

He was just a random carpenter in some distant town in the middle of palestine, he was not wealthy, he had no political power, he didn’t make any contributions to science or art, he didn’t travel much, etc.

So why is Jesus so famous? How did a random carpenter/ (or fisherman) became the most important and influential person in the whole world.

For Christians that question is very easy to answer, “He resurrected” (+some other miracles) if a random guy from Palestine resurrects tomorrow he would become famous.

But from the point of view of an unbeliever, (someone who rejects the claim that Jesus resurrected) what alternative explanation do you offer? How could someone like Jesus become so famous and influential?
Jesus was so popular that there is not one single mention of him during his lifetime, Christianity is almost entirely the result of Paul and therefor his interpretation of a man he never met.
 

ImmortalFlame

Woke gremlin
We was a powerful political leader, he was an influential guy.
So was Jesus. Neither were born influential, but became so over time, and their influence survived through history.

For every name remembered, a million are lost in time. Why do we remember some and not others? Most likely just luck. Jesus was a particularly lucky religious leader at a time and place when religious leaders would pop up on every street corner.

His fame need not be any more significant than that. It is certainly no indicator that his father was a literal god.
 

ChristineM

"Be strong", I whispered to my coffee.
Premium Member
The best question is:

Why do three different religions believe in Jesus?
Is that a sign from God?
I believe so

I don't, have believe early Christianity usurped Mithraism in the roman army and spread throughout the empire. Sometime later Islam picked it up, modified the story to suit there book. Then some 1400 years later the stories were copied again by the baha'i faith.
 

Marcion

gopa of humanity's controversial Taraka Brahma
Jesus was so popular that there is not one single mention of him during his lifetime, Christianity is almost entirely the result of Paul and therefor his interpretation of a man he never met.
There also is not one single mention of Paul nor his "letters" during his life time.
The belief in Paul is based almost entirely on the story in Acts and on those pseudo-graphical letters which were not heard of before they first appeared in the Bible of Marcion.
 

Justanatheist

Well-Known Member
Christianity, islam, baha'i

And even some buddists and hindues believe Jesus was a holy soul from God
Do you not find it odd that Judaism the religion of Jesus doe's him as a prophet from god?
Considering the amount of discussion god had with the Jews do you not see that as a sign from god?
 

Starlight

Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
I don't, have believe early Christianity usurped Mithraism in the roman army and spread throughout the empire. Sometime later Islam picked it up, modified the story to suit there book. Then some 1400 years later the stories were copied again by the baha'i faith.
Then the question become:

Why did islam and baha'i pick up the story of Jesus?

It is because prophet Muhammad and Baha'u'llah liked Jesus. They liked his story, his character, his kindness. They believed Jesus is a holy soul from God
 

Starlight

Spiritual but not religious, new age and omnist
Do you not find it odd that Judaism the religion of Jesus doe's him as a prophet from god?
Considering the amount of discussion god had with the Jews do you not see that as a sign from god?
The first Christians was Jews.
 

Justanatheist

Well-Known Member
There also is not one single mention of Paul nor his "letters" during his life time.
The belief in Paul is based almost entirely on the story in Acts and on those pseudo-graphical letters which were not heard of before they first appeared in the Bible of Marcion.
Paul is the only one who claims to be an eyewitness to a risen Jesus and that was only a vision of him.
 
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