Why is pornography bad?

[ZooGirl02]

A lot of conservative Christians seem to believe that pornography is bad but the fact is that the Bible doesn't even mention pornography or even masturbation! The Bible does mention sexual purity in various places but it does not mention pornography or masturbation.

 

[Pegg]

A lot of conservative Christians seem to believe that pornography is bad but the fact is that the Bible doesn't even mention pornography or even masturbation! The Bible does mention sexual purity in various places but it does not mention pornography or masturbation.

the word pornography comes from the greek word pornia which Paul mentions several times in his writings...its always with regard to fornication and immoral sexual behavior.

 

[Skwim]

the word pornography comes from the greek word pornia which Paul mentions several times in his writings...its always with regard to fornication and immoral sexual behavior.

Although Paul mentions pornia, he doesn't mention pornography (the subject of ZooGirl02's post) which is merely the portrayal of explicit sexual subject matter. Furthermore, pornography often consists of simulated sex: staged stuff.

 

[ninerbuff]

sure....

but porn is specifically designed to promote lust and certain sexual reactions
because again otherwise it would be art....

the line between art and porn is very thin... art is designed specifically to cause reactions, contraversy, it is an expression of consciousness.... in its sexual extremes we have graphic images of a sexual nature and actual people having or performing sexual acts as a part of art.... for example one artist I know of actually employed blind folds and cardboard cut outs with holes...for anonymous intercourse performance art pieces during the 80's.... or "glory holes" ...now this is pushing thwe envelope..and watching it bend...and extreme....

but it is designed to ellicit far more responses than merely sexual lust or similar expressions that porn does... porn is geared toward certain responses...again or it wouldn't be porn...it would be art. Porn is porn....

whether you find it good or bad is wholly subjective...
the original post asks why it should be demonized, there is our answer...
because it IS porn, because it implies and promotes certain reactions...

PORN is PORN

whehter it is RIGHT or WRONG to demonize porn is a wholly other topic....

the reason to demonize porn is because it is porn.........not art

the lines are of course blurry, one can cite what I did above or many films....
but I would venture to say a person would have a tough time defending a film from a website about "Milfs" as a piece of art.......

Perception of Art is very subjective. Where some may find a dot on a piece of paper art, others find just a dot. If porn was just porn, then why not just do sex scenes with no backgrounds (you need an art director for that usually) at all. Many porns have comedy, weak drama and yes even love stories to them. Of course if you're not willing to watch the whole film for a plot and just want to fast forward to the porn scenes, then maybe the porn is all you see. However you can't tell people porn is just porn because that's your point of view and disregard what they may see as art.

 

[ninerbuff]

the word pornography comes from the greek word pornia which Paul mentions several times in his writings...its always with regard to fornication and immoral sexual behavior.

Not according to the dictionary.
Origin:
1840–50; < Gk pornográph ( os ) writing about harlots ( porno-, comb. form of pórn&#275; harlot + -graphos -graph) + -y3
Pornography | Define Pornography at Dictionary.com

Mostly to depict prostitutes. And didn't jesus even say that prostitutes would make it to heaven? And he didn't even say they had to stop prostituting.

 

[Storm]

Assuming that those who participate in porn do so willingly, why should porn be demonized or at least condemned?

I'm deeply ambivalent about porn.

I'm all for sexual freedom, provided it's healthy on ALL fronts. I'm just not sure porn as it is today is capable of meeting that requirement.

In the interest of full disclosure, my personal demons are definitely at play here. I was sexually abused as a minor, leaving me with PTSD, among other diagnoses. I know what it's like to be so damaged that you think nothing of selling yourself. Furthermore, I CAN'T conceive of any other reason to do so, with the sole exception of economic exploitation.

Anyway, I see live action porn, and all I can think is that some poor soul is being further victimized. By what logic is this remotely acceptable?

At the same time, I'm fully aware that I'm far from objective on the subject. For this reason alone, I try to keep my kneejerk reactions in check and refrain from judgment.

If you claim that it provokes lust please explain why lust is necessarily bad, AND THEN be prepared to back up your contention that porn actually provokes lust with facts.

I was about to make some flippant remark on the joys of lust, when I remembered something from a previous debate.

To some people, the word "lust" automatically precludes any emotional connection, even respect. By (their) definition, it's talking about objectification at best. That's not how I understand the word, but I can agree that their understanding is a bad thing.

 

[Skwim]

Anyway, I see live action porn, and all I can think is that some poor soul is being further victimized.

Well, that's your perception; however, the premised issue is based on "assuming that those who participate in porn do so willingly," and not one involving victimization.

By what logic is this remotely acceptable?

I don't know, but as pointed out, coerced porn isn't the topic here.

 

[Storm]

Well, that's your perception; however, the premised issue is based on "assuming that those who participate in porn do so willingly," and not one involving victimization.


I don't know, but as pointed out, coerced porn isn't the topic here.

I think you're missing a bit of nuance. I'm not talking about outside coersion, but unwitting exploitation of past trauma.

I don't know how the creators could compensate for that.

 

[Skwim]

I think you're missing a bit of nuance. I'm not talking about outside coersion, but unwitting exploitation of past trauma.

So is it your opinion that a significant number of those who willingly participate in porn are exploiting some past trauma in their life? If so, it would be interesting to know how you came about this opinion. And why is the exploitation of one's past trauma necessarily bad? If I've been traumatized in the past and can use that traumatization for financial gain, where is the harm?

 

[Storm]

So is it your opinion that a significant number of those who willingly participate in porn are exploiting some past trauma in their life? If so, it would be interesting to know how you came about this opinion.

It's my kneejerk reaction. What I've read tends to back it up (I can recall a single exception).

And why is the exploitation of one's past trauma necessarily bad? If I've been traumatized in the past and can use that traumatization for financial gain, where is the harm?

:thud: Are you serious? The harm is the continuation and reenforcement of the trauma, the aggravation of the scars. Do you really think a few bucks justifies furthering a woman's dissociation from her own body? That's only the first example to spring to mind.

Benefit of the doubt time: do you know anything about PTSD?

 

[Skwim]

:thud: Are you serious? The harm is the continuation and reenforcement of the trauma, the aggravation of the scars. Do you really think a few bucks justifies furthering a woman's dissociation from her own body? That's only the first example to spring to mind.

So any exploitation of one's past trauma always results in a reinforcement of that trauma. Interesting notion. And of course, just as one can choose to exploit a past trauma, they have the option to not do so. I would think that, as in any decision, one weighs the pros and cons, and then comes to conclusion that favors the pros. And naturally this goes for any significant past experience, traumatic or otherwise. What has shaped our lives also helps in shaping our decisions.

Benefit of the doubt time: do you know anything about PTSD?

A little; however, we aren't talking about a necessary disorder, but merely your postulated "past trauma." So let's not overstate the situation here. The issue is, does a person have the right to do what they want, even participate in recorded sex acts, which assumes they aren't masochists who do things to harm themselves---which in itself has a degree of reasonableness to it.

IMO your view that a person who participates in porn is "some poor soul [who] is being further victimized" is a rather odd one, but so be it. I don't see it.

 

[Storm]

The issue is, does a person have the right to do what they want, even participate in recorded sex acts

That's not the issue presented in the op. You originally asked if and why porn is "bad." If you had asked the above question, my answer would be an unqualified "yes."

I also believe smoking, most recreational drug use, and hate speech should be legal. Just because something is unhealthy, doesn't mean I support a ban.

ETA: Now, do you wish to discuss the original question?

 

[Skwim]

That's not the issue presented in the op. You originally asked if and why porn is "bad." If you had asked the above question, my answer would be an unqualified "yes."

Okay.

ETA: Now, do you wish to discuss the original question?

Sure. So let's go to the rest of my comment.

:thud: Are you serious? The harm is the continuation and reenforcement of the trauma, the aggravation of the scars. Do you really think a few bucks justifies furthering a woman's dissociation from her own body? That's only the first example to spring to mind.

"So any exploitation of one's past trauma always results in a reinforcement of that trauma. Interesting notion. And of course, just as one can choose to exploit a past trauma, they have the option to not do so. I would think that, as in any decision, one weighs the pros and cons, and then comes to conclusion that favors the pros. And naturally this goes for any significant past experience, traumatic or otherwise. What has shaped our lives also helps in shaping our decisions.
​

Benefit of the doubt time: do you know anything about PTSD?

A little; however, we aren't talking about a necessary disorder, but merely your postulated "past trauma." So let's not overstate the situation here.

IMO your view that a person who participates in porn is "some poor soul [who] is being further victimized" is a rather odd one, but so be it. I don't see it. "
​

 

[Storm]

Okay.


Sure. So let's go to the rest of my comment.

No problem. I didn't mean to ignore you, just didn't want to waste the effort if you didn't care. Thanks for reposting it, saves me the hassle of multi-quoting!

So any exploitation of one's past trauma always results in a reinforcement of that trauma. Interesting notion.

I wouldn't say it in absolutes, as there are always exceptions. But as a general rule, yeah. That's how it works.

And of course, just as one can choose to exploit a past trauma, they have the option to not do so. I would think that, as in any decision, one weighs the pros and cons, and then comes to conclusion that favors the pros. And naturally this goes for any significant past experience, traumatic or otherwise. What has shaped our lives also helps in shaping our decisions.

OK, I really mean no offense, but you obviously have no idea what it's like to live with serious psychological scarring. (That's a good thing.)

People living at the mercy of past trauma simply aren't this rational. Hell, a lot of people who are perfectly healthy aren't this rational.

One of the main features of PTSD is internalizing the message that you deserve what happened to you. Because of this, the victim seeks out confirmation by engaging in risky behavior that frequently leads to further trauma.

A little; however, we aren't talking about a necessary disorder, but merely your postulated "past trauma." So let's not overstate the situation here.

I'm sorry for not stating it outright, but I thought it was pretty clearly implied that I wasn't discussing healthy people. I'm not overstating anything.

IMO your view that a person who participates in porn is "some poor soul [who] is being further victimized" is a rather odd one, but so be it. I don't see it.

Well, I freely admitted that my personal issues color my judgment.

You're welcome to help me be more objective, though. Why do you think a sexually healthy, economically secure person would choose to engage in prostitution? Becuase (let's face it) porn is just another form of prostitution.

 

[Skwim]

No problem. I didn't mean to ignore you, just didn't want to waste the effort if you didn't care. Thanks for reposting it, saves me the hassle of multi-quoting!

And thank you for your understanding.

OK, I really mean no offense, but you obviously have no idea what it's like to live with serious psychological scarring. (That's a good thing.)

I have somewhat of an idea, but no experience.

I'm sorry for not stating it outright, but I thought it was pretty clearly implied that I wasn't discussing healthy people. I'm not overstating anything.

It is if you believe that people with past trauma necessarily cannot be healthy. I was not addressing those whose past trauma manifests as a present disorder. You took the issue from a past trauma experience to post traumatic stress disorder, which is quite another animal.

You're welcome to help me be more objective, though. Why do you think a sexually healthy, economically secure person would choose to engage in prostitution? Becuase (let's face it) porn is just another form of prostitution.

I assume those who are economically secure do it for the kicks. For all others I take it it's to put bread on the table, just like other folk. The fact is, some people don't invest having sex for money with the contempt that others do. In fact, from what I've read, some truly enjoy it and recommend it to others. And, as with others, I think very few people are pulled kicking and screaming into the occupations they choose. They may not particularly like what they do but they do it anyway.

A recent Harris Interactive survey* uncovered the following statistics on American job satisfaction:

&#8211; Across America, 45 percent of workers say they are either satisfied or extremely satisfied with their jobs
&#8211; Only 20 percent feel very passionate about their jobs
&#8211; 33 percent believe they have reached a dead end in their career
&#8211; 21 percent are eager to change careers
source (pdf)
​

So where does this leave the porn worker? I don't know, but I do know that if they don't like their work they're not alone. If they do, then great.

 

[Storm]

And thank you for your understanding.

Back atcha. I love respectful debate!

It is if you believe that people with past trauma necessarily cannot be healthy, which is all I was addressing; not those whose past trauma manifests as a present disorder. You took the issue from a past trauma experience to post traumatic stress disorder, which is quite another animal.

Ah, no. I'm not saying that all people with past trauma have PTSD. I was saying I rather doubt anyone without PTSD or some other vulnerability (economic, for instance) would end up in sex work.

I assume those who are economically secure do it for the kicks. For all others I take it it's to put bread on the table, just like other folk. The fact is, some people don't invest having sex for money with the contempt that others do. In fact, from what I've read, some truly enjoy it and recommend it to others. And, as with others, I think very few people are pulled kicking and screaming into the occupations they choose. They may not particularly like what they do but they do it anyway.

So where does this leave the porn worker? I don't know, but I do know that if they don't like their work they're not alone. If they do, then great.

I don't have contempt for them. If anything, I'm a little too sympathetic.

There's a big difference between being a wage slave in a boring job, and selling your body.

 

[thedope]

Poor reproduction quality.

 

[Skwim]

Ah, no. I'm not saying that all people with past trauma have PTSD. I was saying I rather doubt anyone without PTSD or some other vulnerability (economic, for instance) would end up in sex work.

As would I.

There's a big difference between being a wage slave in a boring job, and selling your body.

What if that boring job involves "selling your body"?

We all sell parts of ourselves to earn money, and I feel that to denigrate one body part or elevate another is without merit. You may feel a vagina holds some kind of higher status than the left hand, but that's your choice, and one I assume you would not try to press on others. My position is that everyone has the right to use any part of their body as they see fit, and without judgment. So my question is, why is selling some parts of ones body, sex organs and such, intrinsically worse than selling other parts; forearms, back, legs? One that brings people to denigrate it by calling it "selling your body"

As a woman I might have a natural musical ability and "sell" my mouth as a clarinetist in an orchestra, or I might have natural ravishing looks which allows me to make money "selling" my mouth in porn. I see absolutely no moral or ethical difference between one person's use of their breasts to help sell swim suits (modeling) and another's use of their breasts to sell porn (naked objects of desire). To me, sex is no less a legitimate area of interest than is beach wear.

 

[Storm]

As would I.

Then what are you arguing?

What if that boring job involves "selling your body"?

We all sell parts of ourselves to earn money, and I feel that to denigrate one body part or elevate another is without merit. You may feel a vagina holds some kind of higher status than the left hand, but that's your choice, and one I assume you would not try to press on others. My position is that everyone has the right to use any part of their body as they see fit, and without judgment. So my question is, why is selling some parts of ones body, sex organs and such, intrinsically worse than selling other parts; forearms, back, legs? One that brings people to denigrate it by calling it "selling your body"

As a woman I might have a natural musical ability and "sell" my mouth as a clarinetist in an orchestra, or I might have natural ravishing looks which allows me to make money "selling" my mouth in porn. I see absolutely no moral or ethical difference between one person's use of their breasts to help sell swim suits (modeling) and another's use of their breasts to sell porn (naked objects of desire). To me, sex is no less a legitimate area of interest than is beach wear.

I do not for a second believe that you can't see the difference between prostitution and modeling.

If you really can't, I really can't help you.

 

[linwood]

You're welcome to help me be more objective, though. Why do you think a sexually healthy, economically secure person would choose to engage in prostitution? Becuase (let's face it) porn is just another form of prostitution.

Why do you think a sexually healthy economically secure person would flip burgers at Micky d`s?

You`re seriously stacking the deck in this discussion by adding that economically secure.

It`s disingenuous and very transparent.

Nobody who was economically secure would need to do anything they found disagreeable.
Millions of people do things they find disagreeable every day in order to gain economic security.

Try again.