Why is the AR-15 Legal?

[Nakosis]

Let me ask you a question.

Say we do ban all semi-autos.

How does this help reduce guns obtained through the black market?

Because a ban would just move the cheaper semi-automatic into the black market, and only the criminal type will purchase them.

What black market?

Most guns used in crimes are obtained illegally through an FFL.

frontline: hot guns: "How Criminals Get Guns" | PBS

So you find the illegal guns, pull them off the street but they are constantly replenished via FFLs. If they were banned, eventually the source would dry up.

All of these guns were legal at some point. Making their sale illegal would cut off the source. Then yes the problem would to round up all the illegal guns.

At least as they are found and removed they would no longer be replenished.

 

[idav]

Let me ask you a question.

Say we do ban all semi-autos.

How does this help reduce guns obtained through the black market?

Because a ban would just move the cheaper semi-automatic into the black market, and only the criminal type will purchase them.

That’s a non sequiter. If the law makes alcohol illegal then if forces people to use boot leg but has little to do with the reasons to make something illegal. So don’t make any laws cause then people will break them?

 

[Rough Beast Sloucher]

.
But .222 and .223 is in the .22 caliber category though just as .22LR is.

I am not sure what you mean by the '.22 caliber category'. The .223 WSSM packs more than 20 times the muzzle energy as the .22 Short. What puts them in the same category?

 

[Enoch07]

Civilians will use military calibers.
But not vice versa.

They have in the past and still do today.

The Tommy Gun I linked above was in civilian use for roughly 20 years before the military adopted it.

.300 AAC Blackout - Wikipedia this round was developed by civilians, and used by civilians since 2011. But special forces has started using it for their missions, due to it's versatility.

Under Military use:
"Although no cartridge has been accepted as such by any military, certain special force units have taken it into use."

 

[Enoch07]

Most guns used in crimes are obtained illegally through an FFL.

If it's bought using a legitimate FFL it is not illegally obtained though. So the rest of your argument and that article are irrelevant based on that.

Felons can't obtain FFL's. Federal Firearms License - Wikipedia as extensive background checks and other measure take place to insure this.

If someone using their FFL to buy a weapon legally then sold it privately the ownership of the weapon would fall back on the FFL holder. So anyone mass buying and selling guns to criminals would be caught and thrown in jail.

 

[Enoch07]

I am not sure what you mean by the '.22 caliber category'. The .223 WSSM packs more than 20 times the muzzle energy as the .22 Short. What puts them in the same category?

The caliber.

Caliber - Wikipedia

 

[Enoch07]

That’s a non sequiter. If the law makes alcohol illegal then if forces people to use boot leg but has little to do with the reasons to make something illegal. So don’t make any laws cause then people will break them?

Automatic rifles are already banned. Which hasn't reduced gun violence. Now they want semi-automatic banned as well. Which will not reduce gun violence. Because of the black market. Guns will still be available there because they were already selling illegal full autos anyways. Banning semi-autos only shifts the problem, it does not fix the problem.

 

[BSM1]

I am not sure why we are getting into those details. Gun terminology is something I am not familiar with. I just said I would ban all automatic weapons. Semi-auto is still auto. I do not know how to define my terms in gun lingo. The AK-15 should be banned, for example.

To have a viable argument you should know your subject. Semi-auto is definitely not auto.

 

[lostwanderingsoul]

Why are these kinds of guns legal? Because the gun companies pay millions to law makers so they will not ban them.

 

[Enoch07]

Why are these kinds of guns legal? Because the gun companies pay millions to law makers so they will not ban them.

The Constitution.

Second Amendment to the United States Constitution - Wikipedia

There have been attempts to ban on the state level. They are easily overturned as unconstitutional laws.

 

[Rough Beast Sloucher]

The civilian version AR-15 is not an assault rifle. It's a small caliber semi-automatic hunting/sport rifle with cosmetics designed to make it look like a military style rifle. However it is constantly being referred to as an assault rifle in the media.

View attachment 20401

Why does a hunting/sport rifle have ....

. A muzzle brake that helps to keeps the muzzle pointed the same way during rapid fire

. A short (20" or even 16") barrel that facilitates rapid re-pointing when fired from the hip

. A wraparound heat shield on the barrel that allows it to be grasped tightly and re-pointed quickly even when the barrel heats up during rapid fire

. The ability to take a very large capacity quick change magazine that facilitates extended rapid fire
The pictured magazine holds 30 rounds. Magazines for the AR-15 as large as 100 rounds can be bought

. A pistol grip that allows easy aiming when fired from the hip

. A collapsing stock that facilitates easy re-pointing when rapid firing from the hip


???

 

[Revoltingest]

Why does a hunting/sport rifle have ....

. A muzzle brake that helps to keeps the muzzle pointed the same way during rapid fire

. A short (20" or even 16") barrel that facilitates rapid re-pointing when fired from the hip

. A wraparound heat shield on the barrel that allows it to be grasped tightly and re-pointed quickly even when the barrel heats up during rapid fire

. The ability to take a very large capacity quick change magazine that facilitates extended rapid fire
The pictured magazine holds 30 rounds. Magazines for the AR-15 as large as 100 rounds can be bought

. A pistol grip that allows easy aiming when fired from the hip

. A collapsing stock that facilitates easy re-pointing when rapid firing from the hip


???

Talk about shooting from the hip....

 

[Rough Beast Sloucher]

Talk about shooting from the hip....

Care to answer the question?

I am not taking a position on whether weapons like this should be legal or illegal. But claiming it is just a hunting/sport rifle is disingenuous. The weapon is designed to allow quickly and efficiently killing a large number of people as soon as you see them.

 

[Revoltingest]

Care to answer the question?

I am not taking a position on whether weapons like this should be legal or illegal. But claiming it is just a hunting/sport rifle is disingenuous. The weapon is designed to allow quickly and efficiently killing a large number of people as soon as you see them.

I'm pointing out that your claiming "shooting from the hip" to be the purpose of those
features is uncromulent. The pistol grip, for example, allows for better hand position
for accuracy, whether shooting prone, sitting, kneeling, or offhand. This arrangement
is common on target rifles. Shooting from the hip isn't useful.

Btw, hunting is irrelevant to the 2nd Amendment.

 

[idav]

Automatic rifles are already banned. Which hasn't reduced gun violence. Now they want semi-automatic banned as well. Which will not reduce gun violence. Because of the black market. Guns will still be available there because they were already selling illegal full autos anyways. Banning semi-autos only shifts the problem, it does not fix the problem.

People simply want to make it more difficult which is plenty. Some types of weapons are not necessary hunting for food, so if they are not, what exactly are they meant for, invented for? Sure me weapons are simply for war style tactics. If a hijacker has a harder time assaulting mass amounts of people then potential victims have more of a fighting chance. Obviously killing doesn’t stop, that’s all non sequiter argumentation.

 

[Enoch07]

Some types of weapons are not necessary hunting for food, so if they are not, what exactly are they meant for, invented for?

Really? I'd like to see you prove that.

Before you do. Have you ever hunted in a area where moose, bears, wolves, mountain lion, bobcats, or any other large aggressive animal is present? If you have you would understand the need for a semi-automatic weapon. Because as far as these animals are concerned only having 1 round per action (lever, bolt, revolver, pump) is not going to save your life. Bears and moose specifically take several high power rounds to make them stop trying to kill you. Wolves, mountain lions, and bobcats move at high speed and agility making them hard to target in a panic so more than 1 round is helpful.

Also it is my Constitutional right to own these weapons, regardless of what I use them for. As long as I am not using them for crime.

 

[idav]

Really? I'd like to see you prove that.

Before you do. Have you ever hunted in a area where moose, bears, wolves, mountain lion, bobcats, or any other large aggressive animal is present? If you have you would understand the need for a semi-automatic weapon. Because as far as these animals are concerned only having 1 round per action (lever, bolt, revolver, pump) is not going to save your life. Bears and moose specifically take several high power rounds to make them stop trying to kill you. Wolves, mountain lions, and bobcats move at high speed and agility making them hard to target in a panic so more than 1 round is helpful.

Also it is my Constitutional right to own these weapons, regardless of what I use them for. As long as I am not using them for crime.

Do you hunt bears and wolfs and bobcats for food? Making it tougher doesn’t mean taking guns away, touchy touchy. Trump making it easier for mentals to get guns is definitely a step in the wrong direction.

 

[BSM1]

Do you hunt bears and wolfs and bobcats for food? Making it tougher doesn’t mean taking guns away, touchy touchy. Trump making it easier for mentals to get guns is definitely a step in the wrong direction.

Sometimes these predators have to be hunted because they are killing livestock that may be feeding many families. Or in the case of bears especially they may have lost their fear of humans and have become a real threat to men, women, and children.

BTW, what do you think Trump did to allow "mentals" to be able to get guns?

 

[Revoltingest]

Sometimes these predators have to be hunted because they are killing livestock that may be feeding many families. Or in the case of bears especially they may have lost their fear of humans and have become a real threat to men, women, and children.

BTW, what do you think Trump did to allow "mentals" to be able to get guns?

The hunting argument is a straw man.
This gal clearly explains how the 2nd Amendment is not about duck hunting.....

 

[Enoch07]

Do you hunt bears and wolfs and bobcats for food? Making it tougher doesn’t mean taking guns away, touchy touchy. Trump making it easier for mentals to get guns is definitely a step in the wrong direction.

No, but hunters do hunt deer and other game. Which are in the woods. Where bears and wolves live. Who also hunt deer and other game. So there is always the possibility of human coming into contact with these large aggressive creatures, that would otherwise kill them, without the help of a gun.

I am not touchy. I don't appreciate the allegation. This discussion has been very calm on all sides up to this point.

I am however, all for talking about gun control laws, what is and is not possible. But an outright ban is not acceptable or even up for discussion.

As far As Trump's lift on gun restrictions for SS recipients. There is more to the story there. If someone has been diagnosed with certain mental illnesses they do not have the right to firearms. Regardless of if they are on SS or not. So the law was redundant.

Here is a fairly standard form that has to be filled out for gun purchases, before background check can be performed. 1 incorrect answer and I am not allowed to sell you a firearm. I have processed hundreds of these, I worked at a retailer once. Look at the questions A-L.