Why is the AR-15 Legal?

[YmirGF]

Do you know if any of the systems involved in background check have access to an individual's medical records? If so, does access require submitting request, paperwork, etc, etc.

I ask as Canada has a national healthcare system (Fed). Gun ownership is handled by the RCMP (Fed). This makes it easier for the RCMP to access an individuals medical records. We also have psychiatric checks.

Section 2. Registration Firearms-Control Legislation and Policy: Canada | Law Library of Congress
Safety Course http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/safe_sur/cour-eng.htm


Criminal and Psychiatric Checks

According to section 5(1) of the Firearms Act, “[a] person is not eligible to hold a licence if it is desirable, in the interests of the safety of that or any other person, that the person not possess a firearm.”38] Therefore, “[a]n applicant for a firearm licence in Canada must pass background checks which consider criminal, mental, addiction and domestic violence records.”39] Besides criminal checks, in order to determine eligibility under the Act, authorities must consider whether within the previous five years the applicant has been treated for a mental illness, whether in a hospital, mental institute, psychiatric clinic or otherwise and whether or not the person was confined to such a hospital, institute or clinic, that was associated with violence or threatened or attempted violence on the part of the person against any person; or has a history of behavior that includes violence or threatened or attempted violence on the part of the person against any person.40] In addition to background checks, “third party character references for each gun licence applicant are required.”41]

Applicants are screened using a two-tiered process. According to a 2010 evaluation report on Canada’s Firearms Program, “[t]his process entails submitting an application requesting that the applicant provide detailed personal information; when this application is assessed by the CFP, special attention is given to those applying for a Prohibited and Restricted Firearm License.”42] Moreover, all applicants are also “screened on an on-going basis through the provisions of ‘continuous eligibility’, a monitoring function that has a licensee ‘flagged’ for a review of their license should a matter of public safety arise after they have obtained their license.”43]

Do you think a similar system could be implemented in the US?

Do we Canadians rock or what, eh?

 

[Enoch07]

Depends on the caliber. 5.56 is a military weapon if that's the caliber of the weapon.

I think what makes it an assault or not is semi-automatic versus bolt action and the size of the magazines. Also there is bump stocks and such.

Of course you know the media is going to play into it as assault weapons. Their whole purpose is hype and sensationalism.

Almost every caliber of gun is a military caliber. 5.56 = .223 caliber. The smallest caliber (commonly used today) is the .17 Hornet - Wikipedia even then it is rare. Everything bigger than a .22, including the .223 (5.56 Nato) is military caliber. It's more of a case of all military guns are civilian caliber than vice versa.

Bump stocks are 3rd party hardware not produced by the gun manufacturer. I am not a fan of bump stocks personally.

 

[Revoltingest]

Do you know if any of the systems involved in background check have access to an individual's medical records? If so, does access require submitting request, paperwork, etc, etc.

No medical record access.
No physical required.

I ask as Canada has a national healthcare system (Fed). Gun ownership is handled by the RCMP (Fed). This makes it easier for the RCMP to access an individuals medical records. We also have psychiatric checks.

Section 2. Registration Firearms-Control Legislation and Policy: Canada | Law Library of Congress
Safety Course http://www.rcmp-grc.gc.ca/cfp-pcaf/safe_sur/cour-eng.htm

Government free access to my medical records.....there's a comforting thought!

Criminal and Psychiatric Checks

According to section 5(1) of the Firearms Act, “[a] person is not eligible to hold a licence if it is desirable, in the interests of the safety of that or any other person, that the person not possess a firearm.”38] Therefore, “[a]n applicant for a firearm licence in Canada must pass background checks which consider criminal, mental, addiction and domestic violence records.”39] Besides criminal checks, in order to determine eligibility under the Act, authorities must consider whether within the previous five years the applicant has been treated for a mental illness, whether in a hospital, mental institute, psychiatric clinic or otherwise and whether or not the person was confined to such a hospital, institute or clinic, that was associated with violence or threatened or attempted violence on the part of the person against any person; or has a history of behavior that includes violence or threatened or attempted violence on the part of the person against any person.40] In addition to background checks, “third party character references for each gun licence applicant are required.”41]

Applicants are screened using a two-tiered process. According to a 2010 evaluation report on Canada’s Firearms Program, “[t]his process entails submitting an application requesting that the applicant provide detailed personal information; when this application is assessed by the CFP, special attention is given to those applying for a Prohibited and Restricted Firearm License.”42] Moreover, all applicants are also “screened on an on-going basis through the provisions of ‘continuous eligibility’, a monitoring function that has a licensee ‘flagged’ for a review of their license should a matter of public safety arise after they have obtained their license.”43]

Do you think a similar system could be implemented in the US?

It would be very difficult to implement here.

 

[Revoltingest]

Almost every caliber of gun is a military caliber.

Huh?
Not even close.

 

[Enoch07]

Huh?
Not even close.

Name a commonly used caliber that is not?

.17 super hornet is the only one I can think of the top of my head.

.22 Cal ✓

.30 Cal ✓

.40 Cal ✓

.50 Cal ✓

Both citizens and military use all of the commonly used calibers. Sure there is oddball stuff out there that is not mass produced or used. But I am talking about stuff that is readily available to almost everyone.

 

[Shad]

Government free access to my medical records.....there's a comforting thought!

Obviously it is a double-edged sword so to speak.

It would be very difficult to implement here.

Is that due to privacy laws, requiring warrants, etc?

 

[Revoltingest]

Name a commonly used caliber that is not?

.17 super hornet is the only one I can think of the top of my head.

.22 Cal ✓

.30 Cal ✓

.40 Cal ✓

.50 Cal ✓

Both citizens and military use all of the commonly used calibers. Sure there is oddball stuff out there that is not mass produced or used. But I am talking about stuff that is readily available to almost everyone.

Here's an incomplete list (there are many more).....
22 short
22 LR
22 WM
22 Hornet
220 Swift
.222 Remington
38 special
357 magnum
357 Sig
380 ACP
40 S&W
10 mm
44 special
44 magnum
458 Winchester

 

[Altfish]

If that were the case, you would expect that the killing of school children would be legal. It is not. So, I think you are mistaken about the reasoning.

Our country had one such incident in 1996, our government banned all cartridge ammunition handguns with the exception of .22 calibre single-shot weapons in England, Scotland and Wales. A later government then banned the .22 calibre too.

 

[Enoch07]

Here's an incomplete list (there are many more).....
22 short
22 LR
22 WM
22 Hornet
220 Swift
.222 Remington
38 special
357 magnum
357 Sig
380 ACP
40 S&W
10 mm
44 special
44 magnum
458 Winchester

Yes and all of those fit into caliber used by the military. They don't use those specific bullets, but the calibers fit into the same caliber categories I listed in #65.

.22 short
.22 LR
.22 WM
.22 swift
.222 Remington
.223 (5.56 Nato)

For instance, all fit in the .22 caliber category. And the rest fall into their respective caliber categories. The military does use "bigger" bullets than .50 cal on aircraft, ships, etc that are available to citizens following the proper procedures but is not common.

The difference is the class of weapon used, not the caliber. This will help explain. Title II weapons - Wikipedia class 2 or 3 weapons could be considered military grade, but available to citizens following the proper procedures.

"The ownership of Title II weapons is not illegal, but is heavily regulated at both the State and Federal level.[25] Numerous federal restrictions are imposed on the ownership of NFA firearms, including an extensive background check, a $200 tax on manufacture or transfer of an NFA firearm, and registration with the NFA registry."

 

[Shad]

Do we Canadians rock or what, eh?

With the mental health issue I think our system at least tries to address the issue. However Canada and the USA populations have different ideas regarding the role of a federal government. If you look at history the American system was design to counter flaws of the contemporary parliament system which is a foundation of Canada's government.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

Good luck.

You asked about should these guns be banned, not about can these guns be banned.

And I agree: as long as the people who value their precious guns more than their children’s lives are calling the shots, there will be no substantial change.

 

[Revoltingest]

Yes and all of those fit into caliber used by the military. They don't use those specific bullets, but the calibers fit into the same caliber categories I listed in #65.

.22 short
.22 LR
.22 WM
.22 swift
.222 Remington
.223 (5.56 Nato)

For instance, all fit in the .22 caliber category. And the rest fall into their respective caliber categories. The military does use "bigger" bullets than .50 cal on aircraft, ships, etc that are available to citizens following the proper procedures but is not common.

The difference is the class of weapon used, not the caliber. This will help explain. Title II weapons - Wikipedia class 2 or 3 weapons could be considered military grade, but available to citizens following the proper procedures.

"The ownership of Title II weapons is not illegal, but is heavily regulated at both the State and Federal level.[25] Numerous federal restrictions are imposed on the ownership of NFA firearms, including an extensive background check, a $200 tax on manufacture or transfer of an NFA firearm, and registration with the NFA registry."

Whose military uses 40 S&w, 357 Sig, etc, etc?

 

[George-ananda]

Details about Nikolas Cruz, the 19-year-old who was expelled from Marjory Stoneman Douglas High School in Parkland, Fla., emerged Wednesday after he returned with an AR-15 assault rifle and opened fire while stalking the halls.

Florida shooter with history of problems bought his AR-15 legally

The civilian version AR-15 is not an assault rifle. It's a small caliber semi-automatic hunting/sport rifle with cosmetics designed to make it look like a military style rifle. However it is constantly being referred to as an assault rifle in the media.

Is this media ignorance? Is it justified to support the cause? Is my information about it wrong?

I'm coming into this discussion late I see.

My position is we should ban all automatic weapons.

 

[Revoltingest]

I'm coming into this discussion late I see.

My position is we should ban all automatic weapons.

Done since the 30s.

 

[George-ananda]

Done since the 30s.

Obviously I'm coming into this discussion late and missed something.

It says he bought the AK-15 legally.

Or I am not understanding your post. I'm slow sometimes.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

I am upset at the loss of life needlessly.

Upset enough to actually do anything?

But I am not upset that a gun was used. The problem is in the what creates the monster that pulls the trigger. Not what the monster used. Chicago, Illinois is one of the most strict cities in the U.S as far as gun control laws. Gun laws in Illinois - Wikipedia

"Chicago has banned the possession of certain semi-automatic firearms that it defines as assault weapons. Chicago residents must "immediately" report a firearm that is stolen or lost, and must report the transfer of a firearm within 48 hours of such transfer. In a home where a person younger than 18 is present, all guns must be secured with a trigger lock, or stored in a locked container, or secured to the body of the legal owner."

And it has done nothing to reduce gun deaths in Chicago. As shown here https://www.economist.com/blogs/graphicdetail/2017/02/daily-chart-3. Banning guns does nothing to stop gun violence.

Because banning guns only in Chicago has a real impact on availability of guns in Chicago.

I remember seeing those news reports about when the walls went up between Chicago and its suburbs. Commuting through those checkpoints must be fun.

 

[Revoltingest]

Obviously I'm coming into this discussion late and missed something.

It says he bought the AK-15 legally.

Or I am not understanding your post. I'm slow sometimes.

The AR15 is semi-auto.
Even if he had an AK47, it would also have been a civilian version.
The special license for a full auto / select fire weapon is spendy & highly restricted.

 

[Nakosis]

I'm coming into this discussion late I see.

My position is we should ban all automatic weapons.

Ante's been upped to semi-automatic weapons, handguns and rifles.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

That will not work from a legal standpoint. Cigarettes were not advertised as unhealthy for the longest time. Which is why the lawsuit worked, and we now have warnings on cigarette boxes.

The only way a gun manufacturer is liable for a gun death is if the gun malfunctioned during normal operations, killing the gun's owner, or someone in the vicinity. The weapon has to be not modified, or under any unusual circumstances, such as shooting with barrel obstructed etc.

So the epidemic of gun death in your country is the intended outcome?

And you think this decreases the gun industry’s liability?

 

[George-ananda]

The AR15 is semi-auto.
Even if he had an AK47, it would also have been a civilian version.
The special license for a full auto / select fire weapon is spendy & highly restricted.

I am not sure why we are getting into those details. Gun terminology is something I am not familiar with. I just said I would ban all automatic weapons. Semi-auto is still auto. I do not know how to define my terms in gun lingo. The AK-15 should be banned, for example.