Why it's easier to be a creationist than an atheist

[John53]

of course nothing happened to the sun. It was a vision given to that crowd and promised in advance.

And different people had different visions? Kind of convenient isn't it? Also very convenient that only 3 children aged between 7 and 10 could see and hear the Virgin.

Have you got anything else more believable? Like I said I'm very curious.

 

[Spiderman]

And different people had different visions? Kind of convenient isn't it? Also very convenient that only 3 children aged between 7 and 10 could see and hear the Virgin.

Have you got anything else more believable? Like I said I'm very curious.

Infallible Catholic: Miraculous Image of Our Lady of Guadalupe

 

[John53]

Infallible Catholic: Miraculous Image of Our Lady of Guadalupe

I read the article and then googled "Our Lady of Guadalupe". Much of the article is contradicted by other online resources. I will research it some more but I'm not inclined to believe someone who call themselves The Infallible Catholic. Even a few minutes searching show the claims are not infallible.

 

[Spiderman]

I read the article and then googled "Our Lady of Guadalupe". Much of the article is contradicted by other online resources. I will research it some more but I'm not inclined to believe someone who call themselves The Infallible Catholic. Even a few minutes searching show the claims are not infallible.

I've seen documentaries on it, where scientist have examined it and say that it's at least not a painting... and there's no scientific explanation for why the cactus fibers never decomposed after this many centuries

 

[John53]

I've seen documentaries on it, where scientist have examined it and say that it's at least not a painting... and there's no scientific explanation for why the cactus fibers never decomposed after this many centuries

It hasn't been examined by the full range of resources available, which shoots down the "no scientific explanation" claim and an interview with José Sol Rosales, formerly director of the Center for the Conservation and Listing of Heritage Artifacts (Patrimonio Artístico Mueble) of the National Institute of Fine Arts (INBA) in México City about it from a 1982 examination has contrary findings. It claims brush strokes are visible and the material is a hemp/linen mixture.

Regardless of all that I wonder why any God would bother making a painting yet let thousands of children be molested in his house of worship by his earthly representatives?

 

[Spiderman]

It hasn't been examined by the full range of resources available, which shoots down the "no scientific explanation" claim and an interview with José Sol Rosales, formerly director of the Center for the Conservation and Listing of Heritage Artifacts (Patrimonio Artístico Mueble) of the National Institute of Fine Arts (INBA) in México City about it from a 1982 examination has contrary findings. It claims brush strokes are visible and the material is a hemp/linen mixture.

Regardless of all that I wonder why any God would bother making a painting yet let thousands of children be molested in his house of worship by his earthly representatives?

Child molestation happens but it's about 1% of priests that are actually guilty of it....

It's much more common among Public School teachers.

Why does God allow it? I have no clue. I have a lot of resentment against God...

He allowed and commanded all kinds of atrocities to be committed in the Old Testament.

He had his chosen people be enslaved for hundreds of years. Guaranteed, a lot of those slaves got raped and molested.

I personally find God to be rather cruel

 

[John53]

Child molestation happens but it's about 1% of priests that are actually guilty of it....

If it's more than 0% then to me it's very strong evidence that the Christian God doesn't exist.

It's much more common among Public School teachers.

I don't know but it seems likely as there are a lot more teachers but I'm not sure what relevance it has to the topic of the thread.

Why does God allow it? I have no clue.

Surely the most logical answer is that there is no God.

I have a lot of resentment against God...

He allowed and commanded all kinds of atrocities to be committed in the Old Testament.

He had his chosen people be enslaved for hundreds of years. Guaranteed, a lot of those slaves got raped and molested.

I personally find God to be rather cruel

Then why waste your time believing in such a cruel being? It doesn't make sense to me and makes being a creationist a lot harder than being an atheist..

Thank you for your honest responses.

 

[exchemist]

It's been long enough, that I have forgotten my own incredulity, when I first realized that the "ordinary" cause-and-effect simply doesn't work at the level of QM.

It was a longish article I'd read in Scientific American, I think. But it opens up a different way of looking at the universe.

QM also answers the ancient conundrum, does the universe require a First Cause? And the answer is "no".

Which is often why people subconsciously reject the idea that cause-and-effect does not exist at the quantum level.

I've since read several articles describing QM that seem to agree with this observation.

Can you refer me to a link? I'd like to understand how this is argued. As I say, it seems rather extreme to me as a chemist.

 

[Cacotopia]

It's easier because you don't have to go through the trouble of educating yourself about anything science related, there is absolutely no work involved. Until you talk to someone that doesn't share your point of view.

 

[Cacotopia]

@PopeADope: do you have any other sources other than witness accounts? Cause no self respecting skeptic would take that as evidence. If you don't have witness accounts, what else do you have?

 

[Polymath257]

Can you refer me to a link? I'd like to understand how this is argued. As I say, it seems rather extreme to me as a chemist.

How much of QM have you looked at? Anything relativistic like the Dirac equation and the resulting field theories? If you've mainly done the Schrodinger equation, there is a depth still to be plumbed.

In any case, you are certainly aware of the inherent probabilistic nature of QM and the issues with classical notions of particles and waves and also of causality. So, for example, the time of a nuclear decay cannot be predicted even though the probability of decay in a certain time can. In what sense it that decay caused? In some sense, the same issue happens with *all* quantum events: they are NOT determined, but are essentially random. So causality is brought into question.

Once you hit relativistic (special relativity, btw) quantum field theories, the particle numbers are no longer conserved; the particle number is just another observable on the wave equation describing the field.

What gets interesting is that the lowest energy state is no longer the state with no particles in it. That 'false vacuum' actually has more energy than a state with particles in it So, it has a probability of decaying into that lower energy state. In the context of gravitational influences, this decay can quickly expand, giving rise to the 'universe from nothing' characterization.

 

[Spiderman]

If it's more than 0% then to me it's very strong evidence that the Christian God doesn't exist.



I don't know but it seems likely as there are a lot more teachers but I'm not sure what relevance it has to the topic of the thread.



Surely the most logical answer is that there is no God.



Then why waste your time believing in such a cruel being? It doesn't make sense to me and makes being a creationist a lot harder than being an atheist..

Thank you for your honest responses.

The reason I pray to God, despite thinking he is cruel, is the hope that I can get God to change his mind.

Also, the practice of asceticism and prayer for me has been euphoric, blissful, peaceful, and made me more kind, charitable, meek, and humble.

I used to be a sociopath, a criminal, and a drug addict... I'm none of those things anymore, and have a very deep sense of compassion, and it came to me through prayer and meditation.

if I was an atheist, I would be thinking about suicide all the time.

I attempted suicide a year ago, breaking my back in two places, breaking my ribs, breaking my arm, breaking my pelvis, cracking my knee, tore my Meniscus in two knees, tore my ACL, and had a concussion...

The attempt was largely because I gave up on God and felt hopeless.

I believe that the reason I am not in a wheelchair for the rest of my life, is because of divine intervention.

I felt the presence of Supernatural Spirits in a very powerful way, while I was bedridden and rehabilitating.

But I'm aware, that it could all be delusional.

 

[Cacotopia]

The reason I pray to God, despite thinking he is cruel, is the hope that I can get God to change his mind.
.

Just wow.

 

[Cacotopia]

There are no medical treatments nor medicine that can "cure" sociopathy currently existing.

In fact therapy generally worsens the person''s case, because it just a game they can use to manipulate other people.

If you truly were a sociopath, how is it to be certain that you saying you aren't one and it not being another ploy to real your next plaything in?

 

[exchemist]

The reason I pray to God, despite thinking he is cruel, is the hope that I can get God to change his mind.

Also, the practice of asceticism and prayer for me has been euphoric, blissful, peaceful, and made me more kind, charitable, meek, and humble.

I used to be a sociopath, a criminal, and a drug addict... I'm none of those things anymore, and have a very deep sense of compassion, and it came to me through prayer and meditation.

if I was an atheist, I would be thinking about suicide all the time.

I attempted suicide a year ago, breaking my back in two places, breaking my ribs, breaking my arm, breaking my pelvis, cracking my knee, tore my Meniscus in two knees, tore my ACL, and had a concussion...

The attempt was largely because I gave up on God and felt hopeless.

I believe that the reason I am not in a wheelchair for the rest of my life, is because of divine intervention.

I felt the presence of Supernatural Spirits in a very powerful way, while I was bedridden and rehabilitating.

But I'm aware, that it could all be delusional.

I won't say I envy you (!), but you seem to have gained a lot from the practice. I admire that. I must say that, as someone with little remaining faith, I have nevertheless gained some insight into the value of getting into what you might call a spiritual "mood". One can get a sense of calm and solidarity with the faithful, present and over past centuries, which is very consoling at times of stress. It is good to step out of your life, even if it is only for an hour and a half every Sunday.

 

[Spiderman]

Just wow.

there's an instance in scripture, where God is about to destroy Israel for their sins, and Moses gets God to change his mind.

I really do not like scripture much, and it is not something I promote or believe is without error, but I think it is possible to get God to change his mind through intercession

 

[Spiderman]

There are no medical treatments nor medicine that can "cure" sociopathy currently existing.

In fact therapy generally worsens the person''s case, because it just a game they can use to manipulate other people.

If you truly were a sociopath, how is it to be certain that you saying you aren't one and it not being another ploy to real your next plaything in?

I used to be filled with hatred, want to kill people,, and I tortured and killed small animals as a child.

I was also getting arrested a lot and quite violent.

I don't display those behaviors anymore, feel a lot of compassion for other people, want people to be happy, and I don't want anyone to suffer...

A total transformation has taken place in my brain.

 

[Cacotopia]

You think scripture is possibly false or has a lot of misinformation in it, but say that in scripture Moses changed god's mind, are you aware of your double standard?

 

[Cacotopia]

I can't say that I could ever fully trust what you say, when you say that in your past of whom you used to be with violent offenses, and torturing animals. That's some psycho stuff dude. That's deeply disturbing behavior.

Deeply disturbing.

 

[Spiderman]

You think scripture is possibly false or has a lot of misinformation in it, but say that in scripture Moses changed god's mind, are you aware of your double standard?

I believe scripture has some truth to it. I believe all religions have some truth to them.

I agree with scripture when it says that we should love our enemies, forgive others, be meek and humble, feed the hungry and give to the needy.

I don't follow scripture when it says things that go against my conscience as being wrong or bigoted