Why it's easier to be a creationist than an atheist

[Spiderman]

No, it didn't come from nothing. The big bang was a massive expansion from an infinitely dense point of matter, not "nothing".


False.


False.


Depending you definitions, false.

And where did the energy that created the bang come from?

 

[Spiderman]

Fairly fundamental physics and chemistry. There’s nothing special about those elements, we only value them because they happen to be rare and reflect light in interesting ways. The same forces created plutonium, arsenic and mercury too which can easily kill us (despite also looking pretty).

The Big Bang has nothing to do with evolution of living creatures.

What other shape would it be? A sphere is really the default due to there being no forces pushing in any particular direction. It’s the same basic reason bubbles are spherical too.

You have the cause and effect backwards. Life developed on Earth because it happened to be in roughly the right place. Most of the other planets in our solar system aren’t in the right place, along with countless billions of planets orbiting other stars.

Again, the Big Bang has nothing to do with the development of life. That said, there are lots of plants which are of limited use to us and a whole load which are actively dangerous or poisonous to us.

The vast majority of water on the surface of the Earth is salt water and the majority of fresh water on the surface of Earth is frozen.

Oil is nothing special. It’s one of the materials on the planet we’ve learned to make use of (though not always to the benefit of the species) but it’s in no way a necessity for our exstance. Again, there are loads of things on this planet which are dangerous to us too.

They weren’t created for your enjoyment. Species only survive if they procreate and perceiving members of the opposite sex as attractive is part of that. We find them attractive because we exist, not the other way around.

If the universe had been made by an intelligent creator specifically to serve our needs, I’d have a long snagging list for them to address.

I'm not saying I like the Creator, I think he's a jerk.

he has his favorites that he gives lots of grace to, while more than 90% of the people rot in confusion and agony.

But I'm pretty sure he told me that he has a great reward for them in the next life for their suffering and crucifixion on this Earth.

and yes, the Big Bang did give us all of those things that I mentioned... there is no carbon or resources without the Big Bang, therefore silver, gold, diamonds, and those beautiful lovely ladies are the result of the Big Bang. the Big Bang has been creative!

 

[ImmortalFlame]

yes

there is no issue

I'm saying the Big Bang has been generous to us, because there would be no carbon, no gold, no silver,no diamonds, no animals, no fruit, no vegetables, no oil, no water, no sun, no pretty girls, no evolutionary process , without the Big Bang...

Why do you think that's being kind to us? What makes you think that all of those things came into existence with us in mind?

essentially, it all came out of nothing, with no real purpose.... I'm just saying, that's a lot more difficult to believe, then to believe that there was an intelligent creative force behind it.

Why?

 

[ImmortalFlame]

And where did the energy that created the bang come from?

We don't know yet.

 

[Spiderman]

Why do you think that's being kind to us? What makes you think that all of those things came into existence with us in mind?


Why?

Because I'm not able to believe that it could all come into existence and evolve without a creator.... it's just not something I'm able to believe...

I'll respect, that you are not able to believe what I believe.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

Because I'm not able to believe that it could all come into existence and evolve without a creator.... it's just not something I'm able to believe...

Why not? That's not an answer to my question. Why do you have to put "us" at the centre of everything and believe that all things exist for "our" benefit?

Does cancer exist for our benefit? What about tapeworms? Fungal infections? Poison? Famine? The vast, empty, vacuum of space? Do these things make it necessary to believe god doesn't exist?

 

[Spiderman]

Why not? That's not an answer to my question. Why do you have to put "us" at the centre of everything and believe that all things exist for "our" benefit?

Does cancer exist for our benefit? What about tapeworms? Fungal infections? Poison? Famine? The vast, empty, vacuum of space? Do these things make it necessary to believe god doesn't exist?

No!

It just means God wants us to suffer

Our life is a brief journey in this life. This world is not our home

 

[Spiderman]

We don't know yet.

Precisely! Neither do you know that this happened

There is no evidence that chimps evolve into human beings

if that were the case, we would see chimps that are far closer to being human

 

[exchemist]

I can't speak for everyone.
If you are unable to be a theist, that's fine, I'm not able to be an atheist... it's virtually impossible for me to do that, because it goes against my ability to reason and use logic.

Why does gold, silver, and diamonds exist? How does a big bang create these treasures? That big bang was creative? Silver, gold, diamonds, and treasures came into existence out of nothing for no reason, at random? Or, it was created?

The big bang created these pretty birds out of nothing, gave them wings and hollow bones so they can fly

chimp-like creatures that evolved from single cell organisms, that came into existence on a round planet, that came into existence out of.... not a damn thing.

None of this is possible without the Big Bang giving us the Sun... and in the right place of course...

The Big Bang has been good to us!

Thoughts?

This is an appeal to God as "first cause", also known as the cosmological argument for the existence of God: Cosmological argument - Wikipedia

It is a very ancient argument which has had many supporters down the ages.

It is of course an untestable, metaphysical, proposition rather than a scientific one. So it seems to me that acceptance or rejection is as much a matter of personal aesthetics as anything else.

 

[Spiderman]

We should be able to see this unfolding, and we don't

 

[ImmortalFlame]

No!

It just means God wants us to suffer

Our life is a brief journey in this life. This world is not our home

Or it could mean that there's no God and the Universe is entirely indifferent to our suffering or wellbeing, which makes a heck of a lot more sense than a God who wants us to suffer - and yet coincidentally, as you said, makes a lot of things for our benefit.

 

[ImmortalFlame]

There is no evidence that chimps evolve into human beings

Humans didn't evolve from chimps. We both share a common ancestor.

if that were the case, we would see chimps that are far closer to being human

That's not how evolution works.

 

[exchemist]

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We should be able to see this unfolding, and we don't
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We do actually. That is to say, we see evidence supporting the idea, both in fossils and bones in the ground and in DNA resemblances.

God as first cause is a respectable metaphysical position to hold. Denial of evolution is like denial of quantum theory: a pretty silly thing to do until you have learnt enough about how it is said to work to make an informed judgement.

 

[Spiderman]

Or it could mean that there's no God and the Universe is entirely indifferent to our suffering or wellbeing, which makes a heck of a lot more sense than a God who wants us to suffer - and yet coincidentally, as you said, makes a lot of things for our benefit.

To me, I'm unable to believe that things can just materialize out of nothing, and that energy can come out of nowhere that creates a big bang, that leads to organisms that evolve in to many different creatures including you and me.... I'm just not capable of believing that that could happen without a creator.

And that Creator wants us to suffer and die. this Earth is not our home

 

[Spiderman]

We do actually. That is to say, we see evidence supporting the idea, both in fossils and bones in the ground and in DNA resemblances.

God as first cause is a respectable metaphysical position to hold. Denial of evolution is like denial of quantum theory: a pretty silly thing to do until you have learnt enough about how it is said to work to make an informed judgement.

I'm not denying evolution.

I'm saying the material world doesn't just materialized out of nothing , for no apparent reason, as a result of some big bang, and the energy to create that big bang just comes out of nothing...

If God wanted at some point in history to turn chimps into humans, perhaps God chose to do that

 

[Valjean]

Yes, the Big Bang gave us all of those things I mentioned, because everything came out of nothing.

The Big Bang has been generous and creative. It brought about the existence of matter and eventually everything in the OP... it all came forth from nothing, at random, for no apparent reason

The Big Bang is not the direct cause of any of those things. You might as well attribute your choice of a burrito over a Big Mac for lunch to the Big Bang.

 

[Valjean]

And where did carbon come from?

It had to come from nothing.

Therefore it is the result of the Big Bang

What!!!???
How do you not know the origin of the heavy elements?
No, it didn't magically appear from nothing.

 

[HonestJoe]

I'm not saying I like the Creator, I think he's a jerk.

No, you can’t have it both ways. You can’t present all the positive things as evidence of a creator making them for our benefit but then counter all the examples of negative things on the basis of the same creator “being a jerk”. If you want to establish specific characteristics of a creator, you’d need to present direct evidence for that.

But I'm pretty sure he told me that he has a great reward for them in the next life for their suffering and crucifixion on this Earth.

That’s an entirely different argument. Presenting evidence that there was some kind of intelligent creative force is a world away from asserting that there is a deity who communicates specific messages to people.

and yes, the Big Bang did give us all of those things that I mentioned...

If it happened, the Big Bang would have merely brought about the environment in which such things could occur. The same starting point could have easily led to an entirely different universe, containing none of the things you listed.

 

[Woberts]

And where did the energy that created the bang come from?

Quantumland.

 

[Cacotopia]

If you have read the big bang theory there is not a single mention of the word nothing. So this proves that you have not even read it, but are foolishly making assertions based on information you do not have in your possession.