Why Jesus must be the Messiah

[paarsurrey]

Jesus was not the Messiah and we know that from the undisputed experts on the Messiah - the Jews of the OT. Jewish eschatology did not even have a Messiah concept until some 200 years before Jesus became just another Messiah wannabe - who were legion in the 1st century middle east. But what they do tell us about the attributes of the Messiah is notable by what they do not include:

A virgin birth
A crucifixion
A resurrection
A birth in Bethlehem
Any divine attributes - the Messiah is to be fully man, fully human

These facts have been known for millennia now. And yet the lies of the gospel authors in inventing their own pseudo-Messiah are ignored by the adherents to this now multi trillion dollar scam.

The Messiah - Key beliefs in Judaism - GCSE Religious Studies Revision - AQA - BBC Bitesize

Learn about and revise key Jewish beliefs with BBC Bitesize Religious Studies - AQA.

www.bbc.co.uk

Thanks for the article :

The Messiah - Key beliefs in Judaism - GCSE Religious Studies Revision - AQA - BBC Bitesize

Learn about and revise key Jewish beliefs with BBC Bitesize Religious Studies - AQA.

www.bbc.co.uk

What are the Jewish people doing with the wailing wall, do they pray fervently for the coming of the the Israelite Messiah (not the Jewish Messiah- a lesser worldly one), please, right???

Regards

 

[Firenze]

Thanks for the article :

The Messiah - Key beliefs in Judaism - GCSE Religious Studies Revision - AQA - BBC Bitesize

Learn about and revise key Jewish beliefs with BBC Bitesize Religious Studies - AQA.

www.bbc.co.uk

What are the Jewish people doing with the wailing wall, do they pray fervently for the coming of the the Israelite Messiah (not the Jewish Messiah- a lesser worldly one), please, right???

Regards

Doesn't really matter. The Messiah they pray for was not Jesus.

 

[rosends]

paarsurrey said:
"And I can't see any reason at all why any mainstream Jew in Galilee or Judea should or would recognize Jesus as the Messiah, since he was neither a civil leader, a military leader, or a religious leader of the Jews."

My view is a little different.

The Jews have/had two choices, either :

1. they would have accepted him as a truthful prophet as they had accepted Moses (right?), and or
2. as it was incumbent on them to kill a false prophet (right), to kill Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah, if he was a false prophet in terms of Deuteronomy.

They failed to kill him as per (2)above, right?
So, the only alternative for them, as I understand, is to revert to becoming a true Israelite instead of remaining a Jew as per (1) above, right?

One must say it is not not a good plea, was it not the religious duty of every Jew in term of the Deuteronomy, please, right?

Regards

Jewish jurisprudence and the legal structure is based on more than a verse or three in the written text. You have some weird and imaginary idea about what you think Judaism is and can't figure out why actual Jews didn't do things according to what you think Judaism is supposed to be.

 

[rosends]

Thanks for the article :

The Messiah - Key beliefs in Judaism - GCSE Religious Studies Revision - AQA - BBC Bitesize

Learn about and revise key Jewish beliefs with BBC Bitesize Religious Studies - AQA.

www.bbc.co.uk

What are the Jewish people doing with the wailing wall, do they pray fervently for the coming of the the Israelite Messiah (not the Jewish Messiah- a lesser worldly one), please, right???

Regards

1. Informed Jews don't generally use the term "wailing wall"
2. Jews pray there (the western wall) for many reasons and about many things
3. Jews pray everywhere for the arrival of the promised messiah
4. there is no separate concept of an "Israelite Messiah" vs. a "Jewish Messiah" in Judaism.

If you want to be at all respectful of Judaism, you should try to understand that it isn't what you think it is. Can you do that? Not jump to bizarre conclusions, or use language which reflects a lack of knowledge and respect?

 

[paarsurrey]

IndigoChild5559 said:
vide post #15
The messiah is the man who will actually do the things the Messiah is prophecied to do. Jesus just doesn't cut the mustard. Let me give you three examples.
The messiah will usher in an era of worldwide peace between the nations. Jesus did not do this.\
The messiah will bring all the Jews back to the promised land. Jesus did not do this.
The messiah will rule from Jerusalem. Jesus did not do this.

paarsurrey said:
#16
Kindly provide the references (for the above) from Moses, please, right?

The five books of the Torah never mention the messiah. The concept of the messiah, a King that would rule during the idylic age at the end of the world, could not exist until Israel had made the decision to have a King, which comes after the events in the Torah. If you want to know anything about the messiah, you have to read the Prophets.

paarsurrey: do you not accept the Prophets? Forgive me if I have pegged you wrong, but I thought you were Christian.

friend @RabbiO
paarsurrey:
One could not provide any references from Moses as requested, please, right?

Regards

 

[IndigoChild5559]

IndigoChild5559 said:
vide post #15
The messiah is the man who will actually do the things the Messiah is prophecied to do. Jesus just doesn't cut the mustard. Let me give you three examples.
The messiah will usher in an era of worldwide peace between the nations. Jesus did not do this.\
The messiah will bring all the Jews back to the promised land. Jesus did not do this.
The messiah will rule from Jerusalem. Jesus did not do this.

paarsurrey said:
#16
Kindly provide the references (for the above) from Moses, please, right?


friend @RabbiO
paarsurrey:
One could not provide any references from Moses as requested, please, right?

Regards

I'm not sure why you are having difficulty with this. I specifically told you that the Torah (what you are calling Moses) never mentions the messiah. You have to go to the prophets for any verses about the messiah. I cannot give you what is not there.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

rosends said:
at the time of Jesus, the Jewish legal system was not enacting a death penalty so they couldn't kill him


" attempt to kill him (Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah) was based on a (Jewish)religious imperative ) "

A very good point by friend @Ebionite post #76 .
I appreciate.

Regards

Ebionite said nothing to change what Rosends said. smh

 

[rosends]

Ebionite said nothing to change what Rosends said. smh

That's true because what he said was wrong. How and why would that change what I said?
He admits that he is talking about assumptions steeped in Christian texts. Why would that change Judaism?

If you prefer your evidence from the faulty gospel texts that have fun with that. None of that will change the truth of Jewish law.

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey said:
#16
Kindly provide the references (for the above) from Moses, please, right?
paarsurrey wrote:

• #21

One could not provide any references from Moses as requested, please, right?

The five books of the Torah never mention the messiah. The concept of the messiah, a King that would rule during the idylic age at the end of the world, could not exist until Israel had made the decision to have a King, which comes after the events in the Torah. If you want to know anything about the messiah, you have to read the Prophets.

paarsurrey: do you not accept the Prophets? Forgive me if I have pegged you wrong, but I thought you were Christian.

paarsurrey said:
#16
Kindly provide the references (for the above) from Moses, please, right?
paarsurrey wrote:

• #21

One could not provide any references from Moses as requested, please, right?


Which of the truthful prophets I have not accepted, please?
I just wanted to know as to how the Israelites (or the Jews) did know a truthful prophet.
How did they reckon that Moses was a truthful prophet, right?
If there is no criteria for a truthful prophet with them from Moses, doesn't it show that the scribes had concealed reporting it, right??

Regards

" If there is no criteria for a truthful prophet with them from Moses, doesn't it show that the scribes had concealed reporting it, right?? "

Nobody told the Criteria for a truthful prophet from Moses, did I miss something, please, right?

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey said: #25

Kindly provide the references from Moses, please, right?

How did the Israelites reckon that Moses was a truthful prophet of G-d, please?

Does one mean that before they crossed the river ( as one has quoted Exodus 14:30-31) none of the Israelites accepted that Moses was a truthful prophet of G-d and till then they all considered him as a false prophet, please, right??

I don't know -- the text doesn't say they didn't believe him before -- clearly they must have, to some degree, because they followed him. But you asked for textual proof that they did believe in him so I gave it to you.

" clearly they must have, to some degree, because they followed him. "

The (worldly) Hebrews (?) did not and kept on grumbling against Moses:

"Moses goes down the mountain bearing the two tablets, and becomes enraged and shatters the tablets. He burns the calf, grinds it to powder, strews it upon the water, and makes the Israelites drink it. All the Levites, at Moses’ instruction, kills 3,000 people."
EXODUS 32

Portal:Bible/Featured chapter/Exodus 32 - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Wasn't it a curse/condemnation from Moses to these people, please, right?

Regards

 

[IndigoChild5559]

paarsurrey said:
#16
Kindly provide the references (for the above) from Moses, please, right?
paarsurrey wrote:

• #21

One could not provide any references from Moses as requested, please, right?





" If there is no criteria for a truthful prophet with them from Moses, doesn't it show that the scribes had concealed reporting it, right?? "

Nobody told the Criteria for a truthful prophet from Moses, did I miss something, please, right?

Regards

ROFL No, that conclusion is utterly unwarrented.

I asked you, do you or don't you accept the prophets?

 

[paarsurrey]

paarsurrey said: #25

Kindly provide the references from Moses, please, right?

How did the Israelites reckon that Moses was a truthful prophet of G-d, please?


Does one mean that before they crossed the river ( as one has quoted Exodus 14:30-31) none of the Israelites accepted that Moses was a truthful prophet of G-d and till then they all considered him as a false prophet, please, right??

Regards
__________
This is significant as Jesus/Yeshua- the Israelite Messiah's truthfulness is to be reckoned on the same lines as of the Moses.

The (Worldly) Hebrews (?) having no Criteria of a Truthful Prophet from Moses with them, kept on doing odd things even against Moses, so no surprise if they tried/attempted to kill the Prophets/Messengers of G-d like they did (yet failed) with Yeshua s/o Mary - the truthful Israelite Messiah, didn't they, please?
Right?

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

aChristian said:
Among the Jews, the family tree is very important, which can be seen just from the fact that the OT contains many family trees. For Jews family trees are identification, they show who a person is, to whom he belongs. Family trees are also proof for heirs, because in order to inherit something from an ancestor, the descendant must prove that he is the rightful heir and this is proven by a family tree. And that is the point, for we know that the Messiah is the rightful heir of King David and thus ascends the throne of David. Now the fact is that all the genealogical records of the Jews were destroyed by the Romans during the destruction of the temple. Only one family tree survived, the family tree of Jesus in the NT which goes from David to him. With this family tree one can prove that Jesus is a descendant of David and therefore has the right to the kingship of David. He is the only one who can do this, all other Jews living today have no family tree that leads up to David. If a Jew shows up and claims to be the Messiah but is not Jesus, he cannot prove that he is the descendant of David because he has no family tree.

Ask yourself, why did God destroy all the genealogies of the Jews except that of Jesus. He did it so that the world would know that there can be no other Messiah except Jesus.

" Among the Jews, the family tree is very important "

Did Moses mention any family tree of his own please?
If yes, then kindly quote from Moses with references, please.
If not, then it should not be of much importance for the Israelites, right?

Regards

Anybody, please.

Regards

 

[paarsurrey]

Why Jesus must be the Messiah

But the Israelite Messiah was never named as "Jesus" , his name was definitely in Aramaic/Hebrew/Arabic sister languages, please, I understand":

"Jesus (/ˈdʒiːzəs/) is a masculine given name derived from Iēsous (Ἰησοῦς; Iesus in Classical Latin) the Ancient Greek form of the Hebrew and Aramaic name Yeshua or Y'shua (Hebrew: ישוע).[1][2] As its roots lie in the name Yeshua/Y'shua, it is etymologically related to another biblical name, Joshua.[3]"

"

Language	Name/variant
Afrikaans	Jesus[25]
Albanian	Jezu[25]
Arabic	ʿIsà عيسى (Islamic or classical Arabic) / Yasūʿ يسوع (Christian or latter Arabic)[26]"

Jesus (name) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Right?

Like they (the Greeks) found it convenient for their use to change the name Isa to Jesus, similarly when he travelled and reached in Kashmir they named him in their language as Yuz Asaf an Israelite Prophet/Messenger of G-d, please, right?

Regards

 

[IndigoChild5559]

The (Worldly) Hebrews (?) having no Criteria of a Truthful Prophet from Moses with them, kept on doing odd things even against Moses, so no surprise if they tried/attempted to kill the Prophets/Messengers of G-d like they did (yet failed) with Yeshua s/o Mary - the truthful Israelite Messiah, didn't they, please?
Right?

Regards

You are pretty desperate for attention if you are now replying to your own posts.

 

[paarsurrey]

Why Jesus must be the Messiah

But the Israelite Messiah was never named as "Jesus" , his name was definitely in Aramaic/Hebrew/Arabic sister languages, please, I understand":

"Jesus (/ˈdʒiːzəs/) is a masculine given name derived from Iēsous (Ἰησοῦς; Iesus in Classical Latin) the Ancient Greek form of the Hebrew and Aramaic name Yeshua or Y'shua (Hebrew: ישוע).[1][2] As its roots lie in the name Yeshua/Y'shua, it is etymologically related to another biblical name, Joshua.[3]"

"

Language	Name/variant
Afrikaans	Jesus[25]
Albanian	Jezu[25]
Arabic	ʿIsà عيسى (Islamic or classical Arabic) / Yasūʿ يسوع (Christian or latter Arabic)[26]"

Jesus (name) - Wikipedia

en.wikipedia.org

Right?

Like they (the Greeks) found it convenient for their use to change the name Isa to Jesus, similarly when he travelled and reached in Kashmir they named him in their language as Yuz Asaf an Israelite Prophet/Messenger of G-d, please, right?

Regards

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Like they (the Greeks) found it convenient for their use to change the name Isa to Jesus, similarly when he travelled and reached in Kashmir they named him in their language as Yuz Asaf an Israelite Prophet/Messenger of G-d, please, right?

Regards

paar, given that Jesus' native tongue was Aramaic, not Arabic, his actual name would have been Yeshua, not Isa.

 

[paarsurrey]

Among the Jews, the family tree is very important, which can be seen just from the fact that the OT contains many family trees. For Jews family trees are identification, they show who a person is, to whom he belongs. Family trees are also proof for heirs, because in order to inherit something from an ancestor, the descendant must prove that he is the rightful heir and this is proven by a family tree. And that is the point, for we know that the Messiah is the rightful heir of King David and thus ascends the throne of David. Now the fact is that all the genealogical records of the Jews were destroyed by the Romans during the destruction of the temple. Only one family tree survived, the family tree of Jesus in the NT which goes from David to him. With this family tree one can prove that Jesus is a descendant of David and therefore has the right to the kingship of David. He is the only one who can do this, all other Jews living today have no family tree that leads up to David. If a Jew shows up and claims to be the Messiah but is not Jesus, he cannot prove that he is the descendant of David because he has no family tree.

Ask yourself, why did God destroy all the genealogies of the Jews except that of Jesus. He did it so that the world would know that there can be no other Messiah except Jesus.

" except that of Jesus "

Did Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah mention his genealogy himself , please?
If yes, then kindly quote from Jesus, please, right?
If not, then it cannot be except an uncalled for tall claim "in the name of Jesus", please, right?

Regards

 

[IndigoChild5559]

" except that of Jesus "

Did Jesus/Yeshua- the truthful Israelite Messiah mention his genealogy himself , please?
If yes, they kindly quote from Jesus, please, right?

Regards

Jesus didn't leave any writings at all.

 

[Ebionite]

I disagree. The language in any conversation is the one that is most meaningful and precise. When people discuss the gospels, they often use Greek. Why avoid Hebrew?

I don't have a problem with using the Hebrew language to support an argument, my position is that the argument should be made in English, that's all.