Why Jews don't believe in Jesus

[dybmh]

Please don't report me to my Rabbis.

Reform Rabbis? They wouldn't know what I'm talking about either.

 

[dybmh]

my Rabbis

In Hebrew: תינוק שנשבה

Heresy in Judaism - Wikipedia

en.m.wikipedia.org

 

[I Am Hugh]

Being a non-trinitarian doesn't make much difference to me, nor does quoting the Christian bible to me since I don't believe in it. If you are not familiar with messianic prophecy I suggest looking it up, as I don't have the hours of time needed to look up references and explain them.

If you really care here is a reference: Mashiach: The Messiah - Judaism 101 (JewFAQ)

Genesis And Ruth - Adam, Seth, Enosh, Kenan, Mahalalel, Jered, Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech, Noah, Shem, Arpachshad, Shelah, Eber, Peleg, Reu, Serug, Nahor, Terah, Abram (Abraham), Isaac, Jacob (Israel), Judan (and Tamar), Perez, Hezron, Ram, Amminadab, Nahshon, Salmon, Boaz (and Ruth), Obed, Jesse, David.

1 Chronicles chapters 1, 2, 3. - Adam, Seth, Enosh, Kenan, Mahalalel, Jared, Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech, Noah, Shem, Arpachshad, Shelah, Eber, Peleg, Reu, Serug, Nahor, Terah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah, Perez, Hezron, Ram, Amminadab, Nahshon, Salmon (Salma, 1 Chronicles 2:11), Boaz, Obed, Jesse, David, Solomon, Rehoboam, Abijah, Asa, Jehoshaphat, Jehoram, Ahaziah, Jehoash, Amaziah, Azariah (Uzziah), Jotham, Ahaz, Hezekiah, Amon, Josiah, Jehoiakim, Jeconiah (Jehoiachin), Shealtiel (Pedaiah) (See Footnote # 1), Zerubbabel (see Footnote # 2).

Footnote # 1. Zerubbabel evidently was the natural son of Pedaiah and the legal son of Shealtiel by brother-in-law marriage; or he was brought up by Shealtiel after his father Pedaiahs death and became legally recognized as the son of Shealtiel (1 Chronicles 3:17-19 / Ezra 3:2 / Luke 3:27).

Footnote # 2. The lines meet in Shealtiel and Zerubbabel, afterward diverging. This divergence could have been through two different descendants of Zerubbabel, or Rhesa or Abiud could have been a son-in-law.

 

[Eliana]

Genesis And Ruth - Adam, Seth, Enosh, Kenan, Mahalalel, Jered, Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech, Noah, Shem, Arpachshad, Shelah, Eber, Peleg, Reu, Serug, Nahor, Terah, Abram (Abraham), Isaac, Jacob (Israel), Judan (and Tamar), Perez, Hezron, Ram, Amminadab, Nahshon, Salmon, Boaz (and Ruth), Obed, Jesse, David.

1 Chronicles chapters 1, 2, 3. - Adam, Seth, Enosh, Kenan, Mahalalel, Jared, Enoch, Methuselah, Lamech, Noah, Shem, Arpachshad, Shelah, Eber, Peleg, Reu, Serug, Nahor, Terah, Abraham, Isaac, Jacob, Judah, Perez, Hezron, Ram, Amminadab, Nahshon, Salmon (Salma, 1 Chronicles 2:11), Boaz, Obed, Jesse, David, Solomon, Rehoboam, Abijah, Asa, Jehoshaphat, Jehoram, Ahaziah, Jehoash, Amaziah, Azariah (Uzziah), Jotham, Ahaz, Hezekiah, Amon, Josiah, Jehoiakim, Jeconiah (Jehoiachin), Shealtiel (Pedaiah) (See Footnote # 1), Zerubbabel (see Footnote # 2).

Footnote # 1. Zerubbabel evidently was the natural son of Pedaiah and the legal son of Shealtiel by brother-in-law marriage; or he was brought up by Shealtiel after his father Pedaiahs death and became legally recognized as the son of Shealtiel (1 Chronicles 3:17-19 / Ezra 3:2 / Luke 3:27).

Footnote # 2. The lines meet in Shealtiel and Zerubbabel, afterward diverging. This divergence could have been through two different descendants of Zerubbabel, or Rhesa or Abiud could have been a son-in-law.

Dude I already said that even if I grant his lineage there are still all the other issues.

 

[Eliana]

Also, @Eliana
And isn't the Babylonian Exile the largest disporia that has never been rectified? So that would make the "Lost Tribes" a part of Jesus's era. The Epistle of James was written to the "Lost."

Judah was exiled... so what? It was 500 year before Jesus and he didn't do anything about it. How is this confirmation of anything other then his lack of qualifications?

 

[firedragon]

I just read…

The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham…
Matthew 1:1

But Jesus according to your theology has no human father. So this is inconsistent.

How in the stars could an eternally existing being have a so called genealogy going back to any human being be it David?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

And isn't the Babylonian Exile the largest disporia that has never been rectified?

1. Wikipedia: Resettlement policy of the Neo-Assyrian Empire
2. TheTorah_com: Assyrian Deportation and Resettlement: The Story of Samaria

The Wikipedia entry notes:

In the three centuries starting with the reign of Ashur-dan II[1] (934–912 BCE), the Neo-Assyrian Empire practiced a policy of resettlement (also called "deportation" or "mass deportation") of population groups in its territories. The majority of the resettlements were done with careful planning by the government in order to strengthen the empire. ...​

​

... One instance, the relocation of the Israelites in the late eighth century BCE was described in Biblical passages and came to be known as the Assyrian captivity.​

Note that the Assyrian relocation and the Babylonian exile were not the same thing. As for Babylonian captivity ...

The Babylonian captivity or Babylonian exile was the period in Jewish history during which a large number of Judeans from the ancient Kingdom of Judah were forcibly relocated to Babylonia by the Neo-Babylonian Empire.[1] The deportations occurred in multiple waves: After the siege of Jerusalem in 597 BCE, around 7,000 individuals were deported to Mesopotamia. Further deportations followed the destruction of Jerusalem and Solomon's Temple in 587 BCE.[1]​

​

[ ... ]​

​

Archaeological studies have revealed that, although the city of Jerusalem was utterly destroyed, other parts of Judah continued to be inhabited during the period of the exile. Historical records from Mesopotamia and Jewish sources indicate that a significant portion of the Jewish population chose to remain in Mesopotamia. This decision led to the establishment of a sizable Jewish community in Mesopotamia known as the golah (dispersal), which persisted until modern times.[1] The Iraqi Jewish, Persian Jewish, Georgian Jewish, Bukharan Jewish, and the Mountain Jewish communities are believed to derive their ancestry in large part from these exiles; these communities have now largely immigrated to Israel.[7][8]​

 

[Spice]

Judah was exiled... so what? It was 500 year before Jesus and he didn't do anything about it. How is this confirmation of anything other then his lack of qualifications?

Whoa, easy. I'm not questioning the Messiah status, just the disporia timeline.

 

[Spice]

1. Wikipedia: Resettlement policy of the Neo-Assyrian Empire
2. TheTorah_com: Assyrian Deportation and Resettlement: The Story of Samaria

The Wikipedia entry notes:

In the three centuries starting with the reign of Ashur-dan II[1] (934–912 BCE), the Neo-Assyrian Empire practiced a policy of resettlement (also called "deportation" or "mass deportation") of population groups in its territories. The majority of the resettlements were done with careful planning by the government in order to strengthen the empire. ...​

​

... One instance, the relocation of the Israelites in the late eighth century BCE was described in Biblical passages and came to be known as the Assyrian captivity.​

Note that the Assyrian relocation and the Babylonian exile were not the same thing. As for Babylonian captivity ...

The Babylonian captivity or Babylonian exile was the period in Jewish history during which a large number of Judeans from the ancient Kingdom of Judah were forcibly relocated to Babylonia by the Neo-Babylonian Empire.[1] The deportations occurred in multiple waves: After the siege of Jerusalem in 597 BCE, around 7,000 individuals were deported to Mesopotamia. Further deportations followed the destruction of Jerusalem and Solomon's Temple in 587 BCE.[1]​

​

​

[ ... ]​

​

​

Archaeological studies have revealed that, although the city of Jerusalem was utterly destroyed, other parts of Judah continued to be inhabited during the period of the exile. Historical records from Mesopotamia and Jewish sources indicate that a significant portion of the Jewish population chose to remain in Mesopotamia. This decision led to the establishment of a sizable Jewish community in Mesopotamia known as the golah (dispersal), which persisted until modern times.[1] The Iraqi Jewish, Persian Jewish, Georgian Jewish, Bukharan Jewish, and the Mountain Jewish communities are believed to derive their ancestry in large part from these exiles; these communities have now largely immigrated to Israel.[7][8]​

Okay, got it. Maybe not the largest, but still, at the beginning of the Modern Era, a.k.a., the first century C.E., the descendants of Israel were still somewhat scattered.

 

[I Am Hugh]

Dude I already said that even if I grant his lineage there are still all the other issues.

None of which you've addressed or even presented a reasonable argument for. Why did you bring it up anyway? Slap on the back?

 

[Colt]

I've seen this discussed here a bit and there is a lot of misinformation so here are some of the key (but not all) reasons Jews do not believe in Jesus.

The Messiah must be from David's line and from the tribe of Judah, Jesus was not.
The Messiah must rebuild the temple, the temple still stood when Jesus lived.
The Messiah must reunite the Jews, the Jews were not even scattered when Jesus lived.
The Messiah must be Jewish... duh.
The Messiah will establish world peace and rule justly, Jesus did not do this.
The Messiah will rule when the Torah is written in everyone's heart and all people acknowledge Hashem as G-d, Jesus did not do this.

In addition Jews do not accept the notion of a trinity or original sin. We do not believe G-d will assume a human form. Nowhere in Messianic prophecy is the Messiah G-d in human form or otherwise. Jews also do not believe anyone can assume responsibility for the sins of another. G-d also calls human sacrifice an abomination and condemns it in the strongest possible terms. There is nothing in Messianic prophecy about the Messiah dying and coming back at a later date, it says he will finish the job.

There's more, but that's a primer for anyone interested.

Jesus is the Son of God not the Jewish Messiah.
The Jewish Messiah is MIA.

 

[dybmh]

Jesus is the Son of God

Who isn't? ( Who isn't a child of God? )

 

[Jimmy]

Who isn't? ( Who isn't a child of God? )

All of us except Jesus.

 

[dybmh]

All of us except Jesus.

God is not the creator of all? If that's Jesus' teachings, that's a pretty good reason for Jews not to believe in Jesus.

 

[Jimmy]

God is not the creator of all?

Sure but Jesus is different. One example is his gift to raise the deceased, but let’s not derail this thread.

 

[dybmh]

All of us except Jesus.

Here's what I'm reading right now:

"The Fatherhood of God in the Old Testament" - PDF link. It's only 12 pages. I have no idea what's in it. Might be interesting to read it and share/ compare our impressions of it?

Sure but Jesus is different.

I never said he wasn't different.

One example is him raising the deceased.

I never said any one can raise the dead, much less Jesus. Unless you have a good reason, I think that's completely irrelevant to the title "Son of God".

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

Sure but Jesus is different. One example is him raising the deceased.

No. Jesus is promoted as different. One example is apologists, who never met Jesus and were proselytizing decades after the 30s CE, wrote stories about him raising the deceased.

 

[InChrist]

But Jesus according to your theology has no human father. So this is inconsistent.

How in the stars could an eternally existing being have a so called genealogy going back to any human being be it David?

The genealogy in the book of Matthew shows Jesus as legally descended from David through His adoptive father Joseph. The genealogy in Luke shows that Jesus is descended from David physically through His biological mother Mary.

 

[Jimmy]

No. Jesus is promoted as different. One example is apologists, who never met Jesus and were proselytizing decades after the 30s CE, wrote stories about him raising the deceased.

None of that matters today, but let’s not derail the thread.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

The genealogy in the book of Matthew shows Jesus as legally descended from David through His adoptive father Joseph. The genealogy in Luke shows that Jesus is descended from David physically through His biological mother Mary.

Convenient, and from the unknown author who gave us the virgin birth.