Why Jews don't believe in Jesus

[Eliana]

I've seen this discussed here a bit and there is a lot of misinformation so here are some of the key (but not all) reasons Jews do not believe in Jesus.

The Messiah must be from David's line and from the tribe of Judah, Jesus was not.
The Messiah must rebuild the temple, the temple still stood when Jesus lived.
The Messiah must reunite the Jews, the Jews were not even scattered when Jesus lived.
The Messiah must be Jewish... duh.
The Messiah will establish world peace and rule justly, Jesus did not do this.
The Messiah will rule when the Torah is written in everyone's heart and all people acknowledge Hashem as G-d, Jesus did not do this.

In addition Jews do not accept the notion of a trinity or original sin. We do not believe G-d will assume a human form. Nowhere in Messianic prophecy is the Messiah G-d in human form or otherwise. Jews also do not believe anyone can assume responsibility for the sins of another. G-d also calls human sacrifice an abomination and condemns it in the strongest possible terms. There is nothing in Messianic prophecy about the Messiah dying and coming back at a later date, it says he will finish the job.

There's more, but that's a primer for anyone interested.

 

[InChrist]

I've seen this discussed here a bit and there is a lot of misinformation so here are some of the key (but not all) reasons Jews do not believe in Jesus.

The Messiah must be from David's line and from the tribe of Judah, Jesus was not.
The Messiah must rebuild the temple, the temple still stood when Jesus lived.
The Messiah must reunite the Jews, the Jews were not even scattered when Jesus lived.
The Messiah must be Jewish... duh.
The Messiah will establish world peace and rule justly, Jesus did not do this.
The Messiah will rule when the Torah is written in everyone's heart and all people acknowledge Hashem as G-d, Jesus did not do this.

In addition Jews do not accept the notion of a trinity or original sin. We do not believe G-d will assume a human form. Nowhere in Messianic prophecy is the Messiah G-d in human form or otherwise. Jews also do not believe anyone can assume responsibility for the sins of another. G-d also calls human sacrifice an abomination and condemns it in the strongest possible terms. There is nothing in Messianic prophecy about the Messiah dying and coming back at a later date, it says he will finish the job.

There's more, but that's a primer for anyone interested.

Why do you say Jesus did not come from David’s line or the tribe of Judah?

 

[Eliana]

Why do you say Jesus did not come from David’s line or the tribe of Judah?

Because his own lineage as stated in the bible says so.

 

[InChrist]

Because his own lineage as stated in the bible says so.

Where?

 

[InChrist]

Because his own lineage as stated in the bible says so.

I just read…

The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham…
Matthew 1:1

 

[Eliana]

I just read…

The book of the genealogy of Jesus Christ, the Son of David, the Son of Abraham…
Matthew 1:1

Jesus was adopted by Joseph and therefore is not from his line. A child can only inherent such from thier birth father. But even if I were to wave that legality away and assume line purely means genetic, there are still all the other issues listed.

 

[1213]

The Messiah must be from David's line and from the tribe of Judah, Jesus was not.

By what the Bible tells, Jesus was born to the house of David. But, obviously you can say that it not true. It remains a matter of belief.

The Messiah must rebuild the temple,

Please give the scripture that tells so.

The Messiah must reunite the Jews,

Please give the scripture supporting this.

The Messiah must be Jewish... duh.

Jesus is.

The Messiah will establish world peace and rule justly, Jesus did not do this.

Please give the scripture that says so.

And also, I think Jesus established peace, just not the way many think it.

Peace I leave with you. My peace I give to you; not as the world gives, give I to you. Don't let your heart be troubled, neither let it be fearful.
John 14:27

Jesus established God's kingdom on earth, and there is nothing on earth that could destroy it or end its peace.

The Messiah will rule when the Torah is written in everyone's heart and all people acknowledge Hashem as G-d, Jesus did not do this.

Could it be that it is not entirely fulfilled yet?

In addition Jews do not accept the notion of a trinity or original sin.

Luckily Trinity is not what Jesus taught.

And about original sin, doesn't the Genesis tell how Adam and Eve rejected God? That can be called the original sin, the first sin.

We do not believe G-d will assume a human form. Nowhere in Messianic prophecy is the Messiah G-d in human form or otherwise. Jews also do not believe anyone can assume responsibility for the sins of another. G-d also calls human sacrifice an abomination and condemns it in the strongest possible terms.

Why do you think Jesus was a human sacrifice in that sense that people killed him as an offering to God? I think it is not Biblical idea.

There is nothing in Messianic prophecy about the Messiah dying and coming back at a later date, it says he will finish the job.

Does that mean it can't happen?

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

And about original sin, doesn't the Genesis tell how Adam and Eve rejected God? That can be called the original sin, the first sin.

Sometimes etymology proves its ability to render a position entirely impotent -- see etymology fallacy.

I am far from an expert on Christian theology, but the following is worth emphasizing:

Original sin may be taken to mean: (1) the sin that Adam committed; (2) a consequence of this first sin, the hereditary stain with which we are born on account of our origin or descent from Adam.​

​

From the earliest times the latter sense of the word was more common, as may be seen by St. Augustine's statement: "the deliberate sin of the first man is the cause of original sin" (De nupt. et concup., II, xxvi, 43). It is the hereditary stain that is dealt with here. [source; emphasis added - JS]​

Your "well, it was a sin and it was original so of course there's original sin" is more cute than compelling.

By the way:

• As is too often the case, the woman is nowhere to be found in the above excerpt.
• I found The Original View of Original Sin interesting.

 

[dybmh]

there are still all the other issues listed.

Christians have long ago worked around the issues you mentioned. You're nibbling around the edges of a much larger issue.

Jesus was adopted by Joseph

This is a good example of what I would describe as "talking past each other".

You're argument is: "If Jesus is the literal son of God, then, he cannot be the branch of Jesse, from the tribe of Judah." That doesn't address the real issue, because the vast majority of Christians don't view "Son of God" literally in the way you are describing such that "Son of God" and "Son of Joseph" are mutually exclusive. The tribal affiliation, they will say, is fleshy. Son-of-God is spirit, they will say.

All of the other issues you brought can be rationalized the same way to some degree. Then, depending on the Christian and the tenor of the conversation, they'll chuckle to themselves: "Jews... they're blind to the spirit." Or something like that.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

All of the other issues you brought can be rationalized the same way to some degree.

Obviously, otherwise, there would be no Christianity.

All of the other issues you brought can be rationalized the same way to some degree. Then, depending on the Christian and the tenor of the conversation, they'll chuckle to themselves: "Jews... they're blind to the spirit." Or something like that.

This is just silly. It's as if you've adopted @Eliana as some newfound punching bag. Why?

 

[I Am Hugh]

I've seen this discussed here a bit and there is a lot of misinformation so here are some of the key (but not all) reasons Jews do not believe in Jesus.

The Messiah must be from David's line and from the tribe of Judah, Jesus was not.

Jesus was actually the Son of God and the natural heir to the Kingdom by miraculous birth through the virgin girl Mary, of David's line, and Jesus was also the legal heir in the male line of descent from David and Solomon through his adoptive father Joseph. (Luke 1:32, 35 / Romans 1:1-4) (See here)

The Messiah must rebuild the temple, the temple still stood when Jesus lived.

I need some elaboration on that. Why was the Messiah supposed to have rebuilt the temple and when?

The Messiah must reunite the Jews, the Jews were not even scattered when Jesus lived.

Again, elaboration is needed.

The Messiah must be Jewish... duh.

He was.

The Messiah will establish world peace and rule justly, Jesus did not do this.

Elaboration. Especially regarding when.

The Messiah will rule when the Torah is written in everyone's heart and all people acknowledge Hashem as G-d, Jesus did not do this.

Where you are getting this is obviously from Jewish traditional interpretation, so you need to elaborate on all of these points so that it can be seen where it is coming from. Scriptural support rather than traditional interpretation, or at least the support for that interpretation. Otherwise it's just we say they say.

In addition Jews do not accept the notion of a trinity or original sin. We do not believe G-d will assume a human form.

The trinity and human form is apostate Christian theology, not biblically supported. I could argue the original sin point but as far as I can tell it isn't contextually relevant to the Messiah.

Nowhere in Messianic prophecy is the Messiah G-d in human form or otherwise.

I agree.

Jews also do not believe anyone can assume responsibility for the sins of another.

Assume responsibility? What about the blood of bulls? Do you think there is no atonement for sins or just that descendants of Abraham can't sin. What exactly do your tradition think of sin?

G-d also calls human sacrifice an abomination and condemns it in the strongest possible terms.

Correct. Although I can't imagine why you would write G-d instead of God, Jehovah.

There is nothing in Messianic prophecy about the Messiah dying and coming back at a later date, it says he will finish the job.

What does it say? Are Jews still waiting for the Messiah?

 

[dybmh]

This is just silly. It's as if you've adopted @Eliana as some newfound punching bag. Why?

I have not. ~eye-rolls~ Eliana is a blunt, very-Jewish woman. You cannot relate, because you don't understand Judaism and you do not practice Judaism.

 

[dybmh]

Why?

Jay, Judaism is many things for many people. One thing it is not and never will be is: Divide and conquer. That, sir, is the mistake you and people like you are making with the Torah. And, that is the mistake of ignoring and neglecting "spirit" when discussing theology and scripture with Christians.

As an atheist ( who is occasionally agnostic), who does not practice Judaism, you will never be able to have an intelligent conversation about the Torah or the Christian bible. All you will be able to do is criticize and mock other people.

That is "why". You are welcome.

 

[metis]

The Messiah must be from David's line and from the tribe of Judah, Jesus was not.

Frankly, it is impossible to establish Jesus' lineage since the tribal lines got blurred during and after the Babylonian Exile with the exception of the Koehnen and one other line if my memory is correct.

 

[dybmh]

Frankly, it is impossible to establish Jesus' lineage since the tribal lines got blurred during and after the Babylonian Exile with the exception of the Koehnen and one other line if my memory is correct.

It's not impossible. My family traces back to the levites on my mother's side. It's better described as somewhat rare to be able to trace our lineage back, because the tribes which split away from Judah ( dividing and conquering ) were favoring syncretism and assimilation. That is why the archaeology of the religious sites in the northern kingdom are ... messy with idols. Naturally, these syncretists lost their tribal identity because they simply didn't care about it. They wanted to link up with the others. They preferred to be pagan. The same thing is happening today.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I have not. ~eye-rolls~ Eliana is a blunt, very-Jewish woman. You cannot relate, because you don't understand Judaism and you do not practice Judaism.

<~eye-rolls>

Please don't report me to my Rabbis. ​

</~eye-rolls>

 

[Eliana]

Jesus was actually the Son of God and the natural heir to the Kingdom by miraculous birth through the virgin girl Mary, of David's line, and Jesus was also the legal heir in the male line of descent from David and Solomon through his adoptive father Joseph. (Luke 1:32, 35 / Romans 1:1-4) (See here)



I need some elaboration on that. Why was the Messiah supposed to have rebuilt the temple and when?



Again, elaboration is needed.



He was.



Elaboration. Especially regarding when.



Where you are getting this is obviously from Jewish traditional interpretation, so you need to elaborate on all of these points so that it can be seen where it is coming from. Scriptural support rather than traditional interpretation, or at least the support for that interpretation. Otherwise it's just we say they say.



The trinity and human form is apostate Christian theology, not biblically supported. I could argue the original sin point but as far as I can tell it isn't contextually relevant to the Messiah.



I agree.



Assume responsibility? What about the blood of bulls? Do you think there is no atonement for sins or just that descendants of Abraham can't sin. What exactly do your tradition think of sin?



Correct. Although I can't imagine why you would write G-d instead of God, Jehovah.



What does it say? Are Jews still waiting for the Messiah?

Being a non-trinitarian doesn't make much difference to me, nor does quoting the Christian bible to me since I don't believe in it. If you are not familiar with messianic prophecy I suggest looking it up, as I don't have the hours of time needed to look up references and explain them.

If you really care here is a reference: Mashiach: The Messiah - Judaism 101 (JewFAQ)

 

[metis]

It's not impossible. My family traces back to the levites on my mother's side.

Exactly.

Naturally, these syncretists lost their tribal identity because they simply didn't care about it. They wanted to link up with the others. They preferred to be pagan. The same thing is happening today.

I do believe using the word "they" is an overreach. Yes, the north was more liberal and more open to outside influences, no doubt, but it's a stretch being all or likely even most. Either way, there's no way we can tell for sure what percentage was one or the other.

 

[Spice]

Frankly, it is impossible to establish Jesus' lineage since the tribal lines got blurred during and after the Babylonian Exile with the exception of the Koehnen and one other line if my memory is correct.

Also, @Eliana
And isn't the Babylonian Exile the largest disporia that has never been rectified? So that would make the "Lost Tribes" a part of Jesus's era. The Epistle of James was written to the "Lost."

 

[dybmh]

I do believe using the word "they" is an overreach

You're probably right.

Thank you, Metis