Why learn about other faiths?

[Trailblazer]

You are not the victim. Some people like yourself do not see the insults they make. Then they push themselves as a victim saying its our fault.

I never said anything is anyone’s fault. There is no victim. We are just people on a public forum sharing beliefs. If people FEEL insulted by what other people believe and make themselves into victims that’s their problem. I will not be responsible for other peoples’ feelings. That is THEIR responsibility.

That is Just Like saying that if you beat me, it's my view and you are fine. Its alright.

Nobody beat anyone. That analogy is totally off.

Insults hurt and if you don't see as an insult and understand why, humanity will NEVER be at peace. It starts with you.

I am not going to lie just so people will not FEEL offended. That is against the teachings of the Baha’i Faith and it is morally wrong.

I cannot help it if Baha’u’llah is the Manifestation of God for this age. I do not have control over what God does.

I just share what Baha’u’llah revealed. If you don’t like it you can just ignore me. You have free will. This is a public forum and participation is voluntary.

I am not being rude or insulting or disrespectful towards anyone. I just share my beliefs.

Bahaullahs words Mean Nothing if you don't see yourself at fault and learn from mistakes that we are telling you of. If you dont make mistakes you must be god.

What mistakes, telling people what I believe? I make a lot of mistakes but that is not one of them.

Look into it what people tell you. That's assertiveness. No loving conversation cant continue without it.

You mean DO what people tell me to do. I have free will and I will do what I think God wants me to do, not what people tell me to do.

If the older religions were not outdated there would have not been a need for a “new religion. This is logic 101 stuff. The social teachings and laws of the older religions are outdated. The message of the older religions such as individual salvation is no longer the message that is needed in this new age. Jesus accomplished His Mission and He said His work was finished here. Now the world needs to focus on the message of Baha’u’llah, the oneness of mankind.

The spiritual verities of the older religions will never be outdated because they are eternal. This is the truth the Baha’i Faith teaches as I interpret it. I will not cherry coat it just so people will not be uncomfortable. That is dishonest. I will not LIE about what my religion teaches because lying is against what my religion teaches:

“Consider that the worst of qualities and most odious of attributes, which is the foundation of all evil, is lying. No worse or more blameworthy quality than this can be imagined to exist; it is the destroyer of all human perfections, and the cause of innumerable vices. There is no worse characteristic than this; it is the foundation of all evils.” Bahá’í World Faith, p. 321​

 

[Trailblazer]

So whether or not something is an insult is up to the person doing the insulting now? The victim has no say in it?

There is no victim and there is no perpetrator. I am not insulting anyone by stating what I believe. If you take it as an insult you are playing the victim role. I won’t be responsible for that.

It is sad how so many people here have no boundaries between themselves and others but I am not here to play psychologist.

Funny thing, Christians can say that Jesus is the Only Way and that Christianity is the only True Religion of God and nobody accuses them of being insulting.

The real joke is that the Baha’is are the ones who are being insulted on this forum left and right for what we believe and then we get accused of insulting others. What people are doing is called Psychological projection.

Psychological projection is a theory in psychology in which humans defend themselves against their own unconscious impulses or qualities (both positive and negative) by denying their existence in themselves while attributing them to others.[1] For example, a person who is habitually rude may constantly accuse other people of being rude. It incorporates blame shifting.
Psychological projection - Wikipedia

The Baha’is are not insulting anyone by stating what they believe. It is just about time someone pointed out who is actually doing the insulting because that is in keeping with fairness and justice.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I never said anything is anyone’s fault. There is no victim. We are just people on a public forum sharing beliefs. If people FEEL insulted by what other people believe and make themselves into victims that’s their problem. I will not be responsible for other peoples’ feelings. That is THEIR responsibility.

Nobody beat anyone. That analogy is totally off.

I am not going to lie just so people will not FEEL offended. That is against the teachings of the Baha’i Faith and it is morally wrong.

I cannot help it if Baha’u’llah is the Manifestation of God for this age. I do not have control over what God does.

I just share what Baha’u’llah revealed. If you don’t like it you can just ignore me. You have free will. This is a public forum and participation is voluntary.

I am not being rude or insulting or disrespectful towards anyone. I just share my beliefs.

What mistakes, telling people what I believe? I make a lot of mistakes but that is not one of them.

You mean DO what people tell me to do. I have free will and I will do what I think God wants me to do, not what people tell me to do.

If the older religions were not outdated there would have not been a need for a “new religion. This is logic 101 stuff. The social teachings and laws of the older religions are outdated. The message of the older religions such as individual salvation is no longer the message that is needed in this new age. Jesus accomplished His Mission and He said His work was finished here. Now the world needs to focus on the message of Baha’u’llah, the oneness of mankind.

The spiritual verities of the older religions will never be outdated because they are eternal. This is the truth the Baha’i Faith teaches as I interpret it. I will not cherry coat it just so people will not be uncomfortable. That is dishonest. I will not LIE about what my religion teaches because lying is against what my religion teaches:

“Consider that the worst of qualities and most odious of attributes, which is the foundation of all evil, is lying. No worse or more blameworthy quality than this can be imagined to exist; it is the destroyer of all human perfections, and the cause of innumerable vices. There is no worse characteristic than this; it is the foundation of all evils.” Bahá’í World Faith, p. 321​

Trailer, you are looking into words verbatum.

Being a victim means you put yourself in a position to where others are harming you (via your defense and caps) for your beliefs and opinions while (you) at the same time tell us it is on us that we take fault.

The beating comment is an analogy for my point rather than you saying anything verbatum. Im not a verbatum person; so, your reaction to my post is totally different than how Id perceive it.

Insulting has nothing to do with the person who insults (not the beater) but the person thats being insulted (the one taking the beating).

When you insult (beat up) somone and they tell you, hey you insulted us (beat us), it would make sense that either you look into why you affect people the way you do

if you want world peace

or you can ask for clarification, you can rephrase, our ignore it and say to yourself you are right. But you dont need to be defensive about it.

If you dont like people telling youh ow your words affect them, there will be NO world peace because you MUST learn to accept your comments, live by them, and dont tell us by context we are in the wrong because you dont want to ackowledge how you talk to us.

Beaters/insulters can either live up to their comments, be honestly ignorant to it, learn more about it (wisdom), or get defensive.

Its totaly up to you. Its not the end of the world.

You have insulted. It is what it is. If you want peace take another route, what youre doing isnt working.

 

[Trailblazer]

That's an insult. They are not. But your religion is an insult. Accept it.

No, saying what I did “The messages and the social teachings and laws of the older religions are outdated. The spiritual verities of the older religions will never be outdated because they are eternal” is not an insult in any manner shape or form.

If you FEEL insulted by the word outdated that is not my fault.

Its the last sentence in that paragraph. Sheesh

You are twisting what I said to suit your agenda. I NEVER said that anyone's beliefs are impure. I meant that the scriptures are no longer as pure as they were when they were originally revealed, and I posted a passage that explained why... I said: “Those of the other major religions have truth but it is no longer the pure truth that was revealed by God, for reasons that Baha'u'llah explained.” Note the part in bold.

“This is the Day when the loved ones of God should keep their eyes directed towards His Manifestation, and fasten them upon whatsoever that Manifestation may be pleased to reveal. Certain traditions of bygone ages rest on no foundations whatever, while the notions entertained by past generations, and which they have recorded in their books, have, for the most part, been influenced by the desires of a corrupt inclination. Thou dost witness how most of the commentaries and interpretations of the words of God, now current amongst men, are devoid of truth. Their falsity hath, in some cases, been exposed when the intervening veils were rent asunder. They themselves have acknowledged their failure in apprehending the meaning of any of the words of God.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 171-172​

you said in the same paragraph that both Consists and I commented that 1. Old religious are outdated and 2. They are impure (last word).

Basically I GOT religions are old, not useful, and impure on the light it's teaches no longer are valisv

That is not what I said. You are adding to what I said and creating a straw man.

Everyone makes mistakes. The wise take time to learn from them even if they are ignorant of the affect it has on others.

I make a lot of mistakes but one of those mistakes in not being HONEST about what I believe. If that hurts peoples’ feelings that is not my fault. They need to go to counseling and figure out why they cannot “separate” from what other people say. They need to ask the counselor why they blame other people for how they feel. They need to ask the counselor why they cannot “allow” other people to have their own religious beliefs without being offended by them.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No, saying what I did “The messages and the social teachings and laws of the older religions are outdated. The spiritual verities of the older religions will never be outdated because they are eternal” is not an insult in any manner shape or form.

If you FEEL insulted by the word outdated that is not my fault.

You are twisting what I said to suit your agenda. I NEVER said that anyone's beliefs are impure. I meant that the scriptures are no longer as pure as they were when they were originally revealed, and I posted a passage that explained why... I said: “Those of the other major religions have truth but it is no longer the pure truth that was revealed by God, for reasons that Baha'u'llah explained.” Note the part in bold.

“This is the Day when the loved ones of God should keep their eyes directed towards His Manifestation, and fasten them upon whatsoever that Manifestation may be pleased to reveal. Certain traditions of bygone ages rest on no foundations whatever, while the notions entertained by past generations, and which they have recorded in their books, have, for the most part, been influenced by the desires of a corrupt inclination. Thou dost witness how most of the commentaries and interpretations of the words of God, now current amongst men, are devoid of truth. Their falsity hath, in some cases, been exposed when the intervening veils were rent asunder. They themselves have acknowledged their failure in apprehending the meaning of any of the words of God.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 171-172​

That is not what I said. You are adding to what I said and creating a straw man.

I make a lot of mistakes but one of those mistakes in not being HONEST about what I believe. If that hurts peoples’ feelings that is not my fault. They need to go to counseling and figure out why they cannot “separate” from what other people say. They need to ask the counselor why they blame other people for how they feel. They need to ask the counselor why they cannot “allow” other people to have their own religious beliefs without being offended by them.

Trailer, its not just one thread. It is not just me. It is this whole entire thread (and others).

I am saying what you say is what you personally said. I can quote all your comments but the ones to me are just defensive opinions rather than constructive feedback.

I dont read to well with off and caps and heated words. I dont have good vision and my spiritual health cant quite make this out:

I TOLD you thAT Im not bEING defensiVE so dont TEL ME again, THAT i am.

No you did not say this.

Im just making a point. Tone it down. Read my point. And accept that you insulted, more than one of us called you on it,

you can either ignore it telling us its our choice to take what you say as an insult or two, be wise and learn from it.

ALSO

In MY OPINION, it isnt your beliefs thats an issue. I dont care for them but I dont believe in god, so they do nothing for me.

Its how you present your beliefs and talk to others and myself is what contradicts the nature of your beliefs (wanting peace). Im just calling you out on the style of your convo.

You dont need to defend your beliefs.

That, and the quoting doesnt help. I dont know what a god is. You cant explain the nature. So the quotes are irrelevant.

 

[Trailblazer]

You have insulted. It is what it is. If you want peace take another route, what youre doing isnt working.

I insulted nobody. All I did was state what I believe and supported it with what Baha'u'llah wrote.
Don't use the world peace stuff on me. That is a subtle form of manipulation.
We are done here. Please do not post to me again because I will not read it or answer it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I insulted nobody. All I did was state what I believe and supported it with what Baha'u'llah wrote.
Don't use the world peace stuff on me. That is a subtle form of manipulation.
We are done here. Please do not post to me again because I will not read it or answer it.

I know you dont care to hear you insulted someone. It isnt a pleasant thing to hear.

If you want world peace, you have to go about it another way.

In other words: would bahaullah do what you are doing or does he have a more peaceful approach to discussion?

 

[Unveiled Artist]

There are certain established on-line behaviours associated with the action of proselytizing. That's how it's determined. One is excessive quoting of scripture, with little or no personal comments. Tony, for one, has radically changed his behaviour in that regard since he first came on these forums. Another, of course, is just excessive mention of your own religion. In the end, on this forum, moderators fairly decide what is and what isn't.

Im still in between whether this is a bahai thing. In SGI (Buddhist) theres a lot of defensiveness too. Their parent-religion pry* too but theirs is direct; you are wrong and I am right-literally when you question the logic of their beliefs. SGI as a bit better depending on the location. I was told in Japan, where it originated, is pretty strict than here in the US (as so I was told).

Some of the SGI members still talk to me. Theyre just not happy I dont come to their events and conventions. I think of they came on here (or interact if they are), theyd probably get told they are prys* too. It really has to do if one wants to listen to the other. If not, how can one learn to correct their behaviors when they dont acknowledge there might be something up that they personally just dont see and learn from.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You can call it rhetoric or Monty Python. I’m not offended. I’m just explaining my religion but it’s applicable to all Abrahamic Faiths. The Baha’is see Bahá’u’lláh’s Message as a Revelation from God, just as the Muslims view Muhammad’s Quran as God’s Word, the Christians see the Gospels as God’s Word and the Jews the Torah. It’s the foundation of our beliefs.

Adrian, I think they got bored with christians and went to bahaiarians*. ride the wave

 

[Dawnofhope]

Adrian, I think they got bored with christians and went to bahaiarians*. ride the wave

I think you may be onto something. It’s something Abrahamic and slightly exotic looking. There’s a few people poking the Baha’is to see how we react.

 

[TransmutingSoul]

Adrian, I think they got bored with christians and went to bahaiarians*. ride the wave

I see you are paddling your board into the waves again as well Seems you do not mind riding the stormy seas

I hope you are well and happy Regards Tony

 

[Vinayaka]

There is no victim and there is no perpetrator. I am not insulting anyone by stating what I believe. If you take it as an insult you are playing the victim role. I won’t be responsible for that.

If the person takes it as in insult, it's an insult. Simple as that. People can't go around using the n word, claim they're not insulting people, and get away with it.

But I do understand how some people take things as insults more easily than others. Here on this forum, I've often insulted people of your faith, merely by disagreeing with them. I can say "I'm not a Christian" and insult Christians. And yes, it is an insult ... to them.

 

[Vinayaka]

Im still in between whether this is a bahai thing. In SGI (Buddhist) theres a lot of defensiveness too. Their parent-religion pry* too but theirs is direct; you are wrong and I am right-literally when you question the logic of their beliefs. SGI as a bit better depending on the location. I was told in Japan, where it originated, is pretty strict than here in the US (as so I was told).

Some of the SGI members still talk to me. Theyre just not happy I dont come to their events and conventions. I think of they came on here (or interact if they are), theyd probably get told they are prys* too. It really has to do if one wants to listen to the other. If not, how can one learn to correct their behaviors when they dont acknowledge there might be something up that they personally just dont see and learn from.

I don't think I've ever said it is a uniquely Baha'i thing. It's just that the Baha'i seem to be the most common example on this forum.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

I don't think I've ever said it is a uniquely Baha'i thing. It's just that the Baha'i seem to be the most common example on this forum.

I know. Im personally going back and forth as to whether this is a bahai thing. One thing stops me is not all bahai are like this. So, I assume one take bahaullahs words more fundamentalist view than others.

My words.

 

[Trailblazer]

If the person takes it as in insult, it's an insult. Simple as that. People can't go around using the n word, claim they're not insulting people, and get away with it.

No, it is not that simple. A person can take anything as an insult. If only one person considers something an insult, chances are it is the way they are taking it. How can someone prevent that?

I did not use the n word so that is not an analogy. All I said was outdated and I explained why Baha'is believe that with a passage from Baha'u'llah. That might offend some people but it is not an insult. Lots of people say things about Baha'i that are offensive to me but I do not call that an insult unless they get personal.

But I do understand how some people take things as insults more easily than others. Here on this forum, I've often insulted people of your faith, merely by disagreeing with them. I can say "I'm not a Christian" and insult Christians. And yes, it is an insult ... to them.

You have not insulted me by disagreeing with me about Baha'i. An insult is personal.

If saying "I'm not a Christian" is an insult to a Christian then they need a psychologist.

 

[Marcion]

Lots of people say things about Baha'i that are offensive to me but I do not call that an insult unless they get personal.

You have not insulted me by disagreeing with me about Baha'i. An insult is personal..

Characterizing someone's faith as outdated can be felt as very personal for someone who strongly identifies with that faith.
A bit like saying nasty things about someone's mother.
In some parts of the world you could risk receiving a heavy punishment or worse.

 

[Vinayaka]

You have not insulted me by disagreeing with me about Baha'i. An insult is personal.

Yes, lots of people claim they aren't insulted when they are. By the tone of your words, you certainly sound insulted. A few days back a non-Baha'i came on and presented an alternative story, and got reported for being insulting. So who knows really?

I like alternative stories. You learn a lot more.

 

[CG Didymus]

No, it is not an insult unless you take it that way. That is your choice.

The messages and the social teachings and laws of the older religions are outdated. The spiritual verities of the older religions will never be outdated because they are eternal.

Please do not put words in my mouth. I NEVER said that anyone's beliefs are impure, NEVER!

I am telling you that the older religions have been abrogated, NOT that they are wrong. Please do not put words in my mouth. I will let the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith explain it now.

“In conclusion of this theme, I feel, it should be stated that the Revelation identified with Bahá’u’lláh abrogates unconditionally all the Dispensations gone before it, upholds uncompromisingly the eternal verities they enshrine, recognizes firmly and absolutely the Divine origin of their Authors, preserves inviolate the sanctity of their authentic Scriptures, disclaims any intention of lowering the status of their Founders or of abating the spiritual ideals they inculcate, clarifies and correlates their functions, reaffirms their common, their unchangeable and fundamental purpose, reconciles their seemingly divergent claims and doctrines, readily and gratefully recognizes their respective contributions to the gradual unfoldment of one Divine Revelation, unhesitatingly acknowledges itself to be but one link in the chain of continually progressive Revelations, supplements their teachings with such laws and ordinances as conform to the imperative needs, and are dictated by the growing receptivity, of a fast evolving and constantly changing society, and proclaims its readiness and ability to fuse and incorporate the contending sects and factions into which they have fallen into a universal Fellowship, functioning within the framework, and in accordance with the precepts, of a divinely conceived, a world-unifying, a world-redeeming Order”
Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, p. 100​

That quote is one sentence? It's hard to follow all the tangents.

 

[CG Didymus]

Those of the other major religions have truth but it is no longer the pure truth that was revealed by God, for reasons that Baha'u'llah explained:

“This is the Day when the loved ones of God should keep their eyes directed towards His Manifestation, and fasten them upon whatsoever that Manifestation may be pleased to reveal. Certain traditions of bygone ages rest on no foundations whatever, while the notions entertained by past generations, and which they have recorded in their books, have, for the most part, been influenced by the desires of a corrupt inclination. Thou dost witness how most of the commentaries and interpretations of the words of God, now current amongst men, are devoid of truth. Their falsity hath, in some cases, been exposed when the intervening veils were rent asunder. They themselves have acknowledged their failure in apprehending the meaning of any of the words of God.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, pp. 171-172​

Also, the older religions have outdated messages and outdated social teachings and laws. That is why God sends "new" Messengers in every "new" age with a new remedy that suits the needs of the times:

“The All-Knowing Physician hath His finger on the pulse of mankind. He perceiveth the disease, and prescribeth, in His unerring wisdom, the remedy. Every age hath its own problem, and every soul its particular aspiration. The remedy the world needeth in its present-day afflictions can never be the same as that which a subsequent age may require. Be anxiously concerned with the needs of the age ye live in, and center your deliberations on its exigencies and requirements.”
Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 213​

It is not about right and wrong. All the older religions were "right" during their religious dispensation. But we are no longer living in the past. So it is saying this is a "new" revelation from God that suits the needs of the times and the older revelations have been abrogated by the Revelation of Baha'u'llah. I am sorry if people do not like that. If they think we are wrong it should not bother them one iota. They can just ignore us but we are not going away just because we make the older religions uncomfortable.

Some older religions were considered totally wrong and false by the God of Israel, and God had his chosen people kill those people and/or their prophets. So some religions of some cultures are false.

And, when does a religion get outdated? Christianity had beliefs considered wrong by Baha'is early on. So, I've asked this before, when did Christianity ever have it right?

 

[Trailblazer]

Characterizing someone's faith as outdated can be felt as very personal for someone who strongly identifies with that faith.
A bit like saying nasty things about someone's mother.
In some parts of the world you could risk receiving a heavy punishment or worse.

Blame Baha’u’llah for that, not me.... I am just the “messenger” for the Messenger so I just relay information that He revealed.

Moreover, I have every RIGHT to believe what Baha’u’llah revealed, just like everyone else has a right to their beliefs. And since this is a public forum, I have a right to share what I believe, just like everyone else.

When Christians say Baha’u’llah was a false prophet or the antichrist, I do not take that personally because I understand that is just what they believe It does not bother me one iota because I know it is not true. They have a right to believe that though.