Why learn about other faiths?

[Vinayaka]

Many of the adherents of Christianity recognise their faith having emerged two thousand years ago carries beliefs and practices that are no longer compatible with the modern world. The practice of slavery and male domination are two examples.

So then why did Baha'u'llah have slaves, and why are women forbidden to hold the top office of Baha'i faith?

 

[Vinayaka]

Perhaps it takes a certain type of personality to be susceptable or to not be bothered.

Indeed this seems to be the case.

 

[Marcion]

One Christian proposes a solution in the name of God another Christian proposes the exact opposite solution in the name of the same God. We have Christian fighting against Christian, each attacking the other’s version of Christianity.

Unlike the Bible of the Marcion Church, the orthodox Christianity with its much larger Bible is a mix of all kinds of religious thinking, hence the confusions.

 

[Dawnofhope]

So then why did Baha'u'llah have slaves, and why are women forbidden to hold the top office of Baha'i faith?

Bahá’u’lláh revealed laws abolishing slavery.

Citations please in regards your slavery claim.

 

[Dawnofhope]

Is it also Muhammed himself who uses this kind of language or is it the (unknown) author of the Quran who sneeked it in? The Jesus of Q-lite never uses it (not Abrahamic but living in the same area).
For me personally it weakens my interest in what is being said considerably.
Perhaps it takes a certain type of personality to be susceptable or to not be bothered.

I realise how you feel about Abrahamic Faiths. I’m just telling it like it is for Baha’is. I’m not asking you to agree with any of it in the slightest.

Unlike the Bible of the Marcion Church, the orthodox Christianity with its much larger Bible is a mix of all kinds of religious thinking, hence the confusions.

Personally I am entirely comfortable with the Christian Bible. I appreciate why you wouldn’t be and you appear sincere in your beliefs regarding the Marcion Church and Q- lite. So while I don’t share these beliefs I can see how they make perfect sense for you and why you believe them to be true.

 

[Trailblazer]

Trail. You are saying they are wrong.

Religions are not outdated. Tradition is as valid before as it is valid now and in the future. They have always been pure. They have their own beliefs whether it be prophets or just god. You cannot bring peace or spread it by telling people their beliefs are outdated and they are impure. That is an insult.

No, it is not an insult unless you take it that way. That is your choice.

The messages and the social teachings and laws of the older religions are outdated. The spiritual verities of the older religions will never be outdated because they are eternal.

Please do not put words in my mouth. I NEVER said that anyone's beliefs are impure, NEVER!

What did one poster said: live up to your comment and accept your views that you are telling us we are wrong. Youre being honest.

I am telling you that the older religions have been abrogated, NOT that they are wrong. Please do not put words in my mouth. I will let the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith explain it now.

“In conclusion of this theme, I feel, it should be stated that the Revelation identified with Bahá’u’lláh abrogates unconditionally all the Dispensations gone before it, upholds uncompromisingly the eternal verities they enshrine, recognizes firmly and absolutely the Divine origin of their Authors, preserves inviolate the sanctity of their authentic Scriptures, disclaims any intention of lowering the status of their Founders or of abating the spiritual ideals they inculcate, clarifies and correlates their functions, reaffirms their common, their unchangeable and fundamental purpose, reconciles their seemingly divergent claims and doctrines, readily and gratefully recognizes their respective contributions to the gradual unfoldment of one Divine Revelation, unhesitatingly acknowledges itself to be but one link in the chain of continually progressive Revelations, supplements their teachings with such laws and ordinances as conform to the imperative needs, and are dictated by the growing receptivity, of a fast evolving and constantly changing society, and proclaims its readiness and ability to fuse and incorporate the contending sects and factions into which they have fallen into a universal Fellowship, functioning within the framework, and in accordance with the precepts, of a divinely conceived, a world-unifying, a world-redeeming Order”
Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, p. 100​

 

[iam1me]

So Christianity has become so intertwined with opposing views of politics and economics as to become inseparable? The Christian capitalism and Christian socialism? The Christian Right and the Christian Left? One Christian group claims themselves right and the other wrong.

Christianity is concerned with doing God's will and with teaching all people to obey God's commands. Politics and economics are two important areas of our lives where Christianity definitely has something to say - for they can both be sources of good and of evil for mankind, with far reaching effect.

At any rate, there is no denying that the Christian right has by and large gone off the deep end and do not reflect the teachings of Christ in the least. Trying to equivocate these indoctrinated conservative view points with those who actually study the scriptures and try to abide by them are like trying to say night is the same as day. Even to a non-Christian, their hypocrisy and outright contempt for Jesus' teachings is all to apparent. They have largely chosen conservatism and greed over God - only worshiping him with their lips, but not their hearts.

As much as I love the Teachings of Christ, they cannot bring unity to a divided world. Nor can they meaningfully provide the solutions a distracted world so desperately needs. Whenever One Christian proposes a solution in the name of God another Christian proposes the exact opposite solution in the name of the same God. We have Christian fighting against Christian, each attacking the other’s version of Christianity.

Maybe it’s time to try a new way?

First off, trying to find a "new way" that appeases the greed of the world so that it is more acceptable to such people is only to compromise your beliefs to match theirs - not a way of making the world a better place. You should be very concerned if the beliefs you espouse are readily acceptable by such worldly people.

Secondly, Christ's teachings were never intended to bring unity to the world - to the contrary, his teachings are contrary to the ways of the world. Capitalism is a simple example: the world loves capitalism, for they are greedy and desire personal gain more than they care about their fellow man. Christ says you cannot love God and money - you will love one and hate the other. And love for God is exemplified through love for one's fellowman - for if you do not love your fellow man before your very eyes, then you cannot love God whom you cannot see. And indeed - just look at how socialism is daemonized by the Capitalists for daring to suggest that wealth be more evenly distributed so that everyone's needs are met. They'd much rather the masses die in the street for lack of affordable Health Care than see one penny of theirs be put to such a use.

Matthew 10:34-39 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’ 37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

John 15:18-22 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’b]">[b] If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21 They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin;
​

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No, it is not an insult unless you take it that way. That is your choice.

The messages and the social teachings and laws of the older religions are outdated. The spiritual verities of the older religions will never be outdated because they are eternal.

Please do not put words in my mouth. I NEVER said that anyone's beliefs are impure, NEVER!

I am telling you that the older religions have been abrogated, NOT that they are wrong. Please do not put words in my mouth. I will let the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith explain it now.

“In conclusion of this theme, I feel, it should be stated that the Revelation identified with Bahá’u’lláh abrogates unconditionally all the Dispensations gone before it, upholds uncompromisingly the eternal verities they enshrine, recognizes firmly and absolutely the Divine origin of their Authors, preserves inviolate the sanctity of their authentic Scriptures, disclaims any intention of lowering the status of their Founders or of abating the spiritual ideals they inculcate, clarifies and correlates their functions, reaffirms their common, their unchangeable and fundamental purpose, reconciles their seemingly divergent claims and doctrines, readily and gratefully recognizes their respective contributions to the gradual unfoldment of one Divine Revelation, unhesitatingly acknowledges itself to be but one link in the chain of continually progressive Revelations, supplements their teachings with such laws and ordinances as conform to the imperative needs, and are dictated by the growing receptivity, of a fast evolving and constantly changing society, and proclaims its readiness and ability to fuse and incorporate the contending sects and factions into which they have fallen into a universal Fellowship, functioning within the framework, and in accordance with the precepts, of a divinely conceived, a world-unifying, a world-redeeming Order”
Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, p. 100​

I will come back.

You are not the victim. Some people like yourself do not see the insults they make. Then they push themselves as a victim saying its our fault.

That is Just Like saying that if you beat me, it's my view and you are fine. Its alright.

Insults hurt and if you don't see as an insult and understand why, humanity will NEVER be at peace. It starts with you.

Bahaullahs words Mean Nothing if you don't see yourself at fault and learn from mistakes that we are telling you of. If you dont make mistakes you must be god.

Look into it what people tell you. That's assertiveness. No loving conversation cant continue without it.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Christianity is concerned with doing God's will and with teaching all people to obey God's commands. Politics and economics are two important areas of our lives where Christianity definitely has something to say - for they can both be sources of good and of evil for mankind, with far reaching effect. No

At any rate, there is no denying that the Christian right has by and large gone off the deep end and do not reflect the teachings of Christ in the least. Trying to equivocate these indoctrinated conservative view points with those who actually study the scriptures and try to abide by them are like trying to say night is the same as day. Even to a non-Christian, their hypocrisy and outright contempt for Jesus' teachings is all to apparent. They have largely chosen conservatism and greed over God - only worshiping him with their lips, but not their hearts.



First off, trying to find a "new way" that appeases the greed of the world so that it is more acceptable to such people is only to compromise your beliefs to match theirs - not a way of making the world a better place. You should be very concerned if the beliefs you espouse are readily acceptable by such worldly people.

Secondly, Christ's teachings were never intended to bring unity to the world - to the contrary, his teachings are contrary to the ways of the world. Capitalism is a simple example: the world loves capitalism, for they are greedy and desire personal gain more than they care about their fellow man. Christ says you cannot love God and money - you will love one and hate the other. And love for God is exemplified through love for one's fellowman - for if you do not love your fellow man before your very eyes, then you cannot love God whom you cannot see. And indeed - just look at how socialism is daemonized by the Capitalists for daring to suggest that wealth be more evenly distributed so that everyone's needs are met. They'd much rather the masses die in the street for lack of affordable Health Care than see one penny of theirs be put to such a use.

Matthew 10:34-39 “Do not suppose that I have come to bring peace to the earth. I did not come to bring peace, but a sword. 35 For I have come to turn “‘a man against his father, a daughter against her mother, a daughter-in-law against her mother-in-law—36 a man’s enemies will be the members of his own household.’ 37 “Anyone who loves their father or mother more than me is not worthy of me; anyone who loves their son or daughter more than me is not worthy of me. 38 Whoever does not take up their cross and follow me is not worthy of me. 39 Whoever finds their life will lose it, and whoever loses their life for my sake will find it.

John 15:18-22 “If the world hates you, keep in mind that it hated me first. 19 If you belonged to the world, it would love you as its own. As it is, you do not belong to the world, but I have chosen you out of the world. That is why the world hates you. 20 Remember what I told you: ‘A servant is not greater than his master.’b]">[b] If they persecuted me, they will persecute you also. If they obeyed my teaching, they will obey yours also. 21 They will treat you this way because of my name, for they do not know the one who sent me. 22 If I had not come and spoken to them, they would not be guilty of sin;
​

I found it. Thanks


@Trailblazer :

That's one reason I dont read the bible.

You cant have peace when you use the sword for killing and not for protection.

Also, sword means Gods Word not a dangerous object.

...

 

[iam1me]

That's one reason I dont read the bible.

You cant have peace when you use the sword for killing and not for protection.

Also, sword means Gods Word not a dangerous object.

...

No one said the sword in question was for killing - that's not the point of the scripture at all. If you read the bible, you'd know that.

 

[Vinayaka]

No, it is not an insult unless you take it that way. That is your choice.

So whether or not something is an insult is up to the person doing the insulting now? The victim has no say in it?

 

[Marcion]

I realise how you feel about Abrahamic Faiths. I’m just telling it like it is for Baha’is. I’m not asking you to agree with any of it in the slightest.

Personally I am entirely comfortable with the Christian Bible. I appreciate why you wouldn’t be and you appear sincere in your beliefs regarding the Marcion Church and Q- lite. So while I don’t share these beliefs I can see how they make perfect sense for you and why you believe them to be true.

I'm trying to make sense of the way of thinking. I respect any type of sincere worship, also the nature worship of the Native Americans, Native Australians, Africans, neo-pagan Europeans and so also the Abrahamic type of religions of the Middle East. Humanity has gone through many phases and they are all very interesting to know more about. I think many modern people are starting to reject the Abrahamic dogmatic way of thinking though, people don't want things to be imposed irrationally, they resist this more and more. People want to move on.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

No one said the sword in question was for killing - that's not the point of the scripture at all. If you read the bible, you'd know that.

I read the bible.

Sword means word.

Trail was referring to insults aren't a problem because it's referenced as a sword. Many people think that but in context jesus brings gods word. The sword is a metaphor for word.

Gotta read the whole couple posts in context.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

So whether or not something is an insult is up to the person doing the insulting now? The victim has no say in it?

If he doesn't catch that I dont even know what to say.

 

[Vinayaka]

If he doesn't catch that I dont even know what to say.

Good thing it's not the same with rape victims. "Oh, it was just sex."

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You MUST MUST read my posts (and the bible) in context. I did not put words your mouth. I AM talking about your views not you.

STOP YELLING it's not the end of the world. Sheesh

No, it is not an insult unless you take it that way. That is your choice.

Thats that's silly.

"Oh, I'm not beating and sexually abusing you, you take just taking it that way"

Im sure bahaullah wouldn't ever say such insults. I hope.

The messages and the social teachings and laws of the older religions are outdated. The spiritual verities of the older religions will never be outdated because they are eternal

That's an insult. They are not. But your religion is an insult. Accept it.

Please do not put words in my mouth. I NEVER said that anyone's beliefs are impure, NEVER!

Its the last sentence in that paragraph. Sheesh

No, it is not an insult unless you take it that way. That is your choice.

The messages and the social teachings and laws of the older religions are outdated. The spiritual verities of the older religions will never be outdated because they are eternal.

Please do not put words in my mouth. I NEVER said that anyone's beliefs are impure, NEVER!

I am telling you that the older religions have been abrogated, NOT that they are wrong. Please do not put words in my mouth. I will let the Guardian of the Baha'i Faith explain it now.

“In conclusion of this theme, I feel, it should be stated that the Revelation identified with Bahá’u’lláh abrogates unconditionally all the Dispensations gone before it, upholds uncompromisingly the eternal verities they enshrine, recognizes firmly and absolutely the Divine origin of their Authors, preserves inviolate the sanctity of their authentic Scriptures, disclaims any intention of lowering the status of their Founders or of abating the spiritual ideals they inculcate, clarifies and correlates their functions, reaffirms their common, their unchangeable and fundamental purpose, reconciles their seemingly divergent claims and doctrines, readily and gratefully recognizes their respective contributions to the gradual unfoldment of one Divine Revelation, unhesitatingly acknowledges itself to be but one link in the chain of continually progressive Revelations, supplements their teachings with such laws and ordinances as conform to the imperative needs, and are dictated by the growing receptivity, of a fast evolving and constantly changing society, and proclaims its readiness and ability to fuse and incorporate the contending sects and factions into which they have fallen into a universal Fellowship, functioning within the framework, and in accordance with the precepts, of a divinely conceived, a world-unifying, a world-redeeming Order”
Shoghi Effendi, God Passes By, p. 100​

you said in the same paragraph that both Consists and I commented that 1. Old religious are outdated and 2. They are impure (last word).

Basically I GOT religions are old, not useful, and impure on the light it's teaches no longer are valisv

But you can believe you said X.

Conversations do not work without learning looking k to your mistakes or understanding why something you say from multiple people.

Can' take your word amd quotes if you don't look into why we are telling you you are not the victim and why.
Gotta go.

Everyone makes mistakes. The wise take time to learn from them even if they are ignorant of the affect it has on others.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

Good thing it's not the same with rape victims. "Oh, it was just sex."

Haha. Yeah. Sad really.

 

[iam1me]

I read the bible.

You just said you didn't.

Sword means word.

Indeed - so why are you talking about killing?

Trail was referring to insults aren't a problem because it's referenced as a sword. Many people think that but in context jesus brings gods word. The sword is a metaphor for word.

Gotta read the whole couple posts in context.

You were responding to me, not Trail.

 

[syo]

All religions are without error. it's only natural to learn about them.

 

[Unveiled Artist]

You just said you didn't.



Indeed - so why are you talking about killing?



You were responding to me, not Trail.

I never said I didnt. I read it twice.

Imsults and killing are wrong. They hurt just like a sword. I put emphasis on making because thats what insults are like.

The bible speaks of the sword being word not something dangerous like insults and klong

Got to read it on context. I wasnt mean about it nor sarcastic. It is what it is.