Why liberalism can and has been a disease.

[Flame]

Confederate flags on display are regularly seen in Indiana

Which is weird considering they never joined the Confederacy to begin with.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

It might also be due to the perceived wealth in California

I don't doubt that for a moment. The major tech companies may be in Washington, but we have Silicon Valley, Hollywood, two professional football teams, three professional basketball teams (this may not be accurate anymore as I haven't followed basketball since about the mid-90s), numerous very well-known companies of various business (even pop-culture illiterate nerds like me will see some names on skyscrapers that will make them squeal in delight), and it doesn't help that so much of the Union doesn't have a realistic view of the state. In Indiana, unless you're talking to someone from here, you never hear about the dusty dry Valley that makes up most of the state, the main focus is always LA or San Fransisco, and they seem to forget in their romanticized visions that you still have to go to work here like you do in any other state.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Which is weird considering they never joined the Confederacy to begin with.

I've always wondered why, myself. It's not their heritage, it's not their culture, those Yankees pretty much have no real good reason to fly it. I know some of them believe it's some middle finger of sorts to the government, but that is definitely not how the rest of the world views it, and I very much doubt Uncle Sam even notices. Some like to say it's a symbol of rebellion, but they aren't rebels.
And, in fairness, it's not unusual for the Southern wanna-bes to be met with negativity, such as having it rubbed in the South will not rise again, they lost, quit crying about it, and their intelligence questioned for not realizing they're Yankees (there aren't many people in the area where I lived who themselves are not from the area, so though it's an assumption it can be assumed accurate).
But where I live did have a very strong Klan presence, it held the largest Klan rally in history, has a hospital that was founded and first built by the Klan (it hasn't been theirs in a long time now), and there are several cities in the area that still have a sundown town mentality.
I have wondered if it has something to do with Indiana being 70-some percent white, 20-some percent black, a "just large enough to notice" population of Latinos in a few cities, and not much of anyone else. But, here, about half the population, if not more, would have reason to question and challenge such displays as white Caucasians aren't a super-majority here. Or it could be that people here seem to be way more careful and concerned about not offending others.

 

[Shad]

Then what do you call it when Americans declare war against Americans, fire upon them, and attempt to seize Federal military bases?

It was law enforcement not any citizen they see.

A revolt due to renouncing allegiance to the government (Fed). Rebellion due to attempt seizing of government property and fight the government. A failed revolution as they lost to government.

Terrorism is about goals. motives, agenda and targets.

 

[Shad]

I was looking thru a book published in the 1870s
that suggested "why was there a civil war" as a debate topic.
If they didnt know then, maybe certainty now is misplaced.

There were several causes.

Although you didn't name the book I think 1870 is a bit too close for bias and the damaged the war causes to be settled in most minds.

One hears a quite different pov on Taiwan independence
depending which side of the strait one is on.
For one, they both consider the othet to be the rebels.

Yes. However this is really just stubbornness in the modern era. KMT lost domestically and internationally anyways.

In the event, the American thing about self determination
is generally observed in the breach, and, as noted,
boundaries are determined by force.

I would put huge amount of stock in self determination from a government. Sure force maintains boundaries but not necessarily military force in every case.

 

[Audie]

There were several causes.

Although you didn't name the book I think 1870 is a bit too close for bias and the damaged the war causes to be settled in most minds.



Yes. However this is really just stubbornness in the modern era. KMT lost domestically and internationally anyways.



I would put huge amount of stock in self determination from a government. Sure force maintains boundaries but not necessarily military force in every case.

Could you identify a square mile anywhere that was
not taken by force from its previous owners?

 

[Shad]

Could you identify a square mile anywhere that was
not taken by force from its previous owners?

My family farm and its crop fields.

 

[Audie]

My family farm and its crop fields.

Oh? What country?

"Most immediate previous" does not count.

 

[Daemon Sophic]

Could you identify a square mile anywhere that was
not taken by force from its previous owners?

 

[Stevicus]

I don't doubt that for a moment. The major tech companies may be in Washington, but we have Silicon Valley, Hollywood, two professional football teams, three professional basketball teams (this may not be accurate anymore as I haven't followed basketball since about the mid-90s), numerous very well-known companies of various business (even pop-culture illiterate nerds like me will see some names on skyscrapers that will make them squeal in delight), and it doesn't help that so much of the Union doesn't have a realistic view of the state. In Indiana, unless you're talking to someone from here, you never hear about the dusty dry Valley that makes up most of the state, the main focus is always LA or San Fransisco, and they seem to forget in their romanticized visions that you still have to go to work here like you do in any other state.

I was born in California and have lived there off and on at various times in my life. Most of my life has been in AZ, though. One issue facing California and the rest of the Western states is water.

Also, my mom lived in LA for decades, and whenever we'd go to a movie, she'd want to sit in the back row just in case of an earthquake. I couldn't argue with her reasoning. And with massive fires, mudslides, an ongoing drought - some might perceive the whole state as one big disaster after another.

But I know it's not all like that, and much of the state is still pretty nice.

But I guess every state conjures up certain images or perceptions in the minds of people who haven't lived there or visited there.

 

[Audie]

Ha. Good one. Even there, though, Argentina is claiming
souvernty over their pie wedge.
Oriniginal point tho is that nat'l boundaries are determined
by force, which is the case anywhere there are
borders.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Also, my mom lived in LA for decades, and whenever we'd go to a movie, she'd want to sit in the back row just in case of an earthquake. I couldn't argue with her reasoning. And with massive fires, mudslides, an ongoing drought - some might perceive the whole state as one big disaster after another.

I've always been curious about that. Hands down tornadoes cause way more death and destruction than just about any other natural disaster, especially because they still remain tricky to predict and track, extremely difficult to build against, and fairly regular events, with it not being unusual for a single storm system to spawn havoc across multiple states. But that tends to not get the same "seriousness," or something like that, that California disasters get or hurricanes get, even though things such as hurricanes, earthquakes, and mudslides being contained to specific geological locations. But tornadoes can happen anywhere, and people still decided it would be a great idea to settle where they happen the most frequent and are the most destructive. Add in the regular sub-zero temperatures of the MidWest, and you really have to wonder why people stick around when they think other places have it intolerably bad when it comes to natural disasters and potentially harmful and fatal seasonal conditions. Not everywhere in America comes with the risk of frost bite, after all.
Kind of funny with earthquakes: IU had a system wide earthquake prepardness day when all of it's campuses participated in an earthquake drill, despite earthquakes being incredibly rare there with it being rare to have one that causes any significant damage. I was working at the library then, and one of the librarians was asking us what we'd do in the event of an Earthquake. I replied "Sit here and wonder what the hell's going on." Not what she was looking for, but the last time the state had an earthquake few people had any idea what it was until it was over. So it's the most realistic answer because it's very likely even those who are supposed to sound the alarm are going to be caught off guard due to the lack of experiencing earthquakes to immediately what is going on. (I'm still struggling with immediately identifying lawn sprinklers because they aren't very common in Indiana, let alone they can't be used during December and January because of water freezing in them and in the hose and the grass won't grow anyways, and I've been sprayed a few times because I didn't know where the water I saw was coming from. The sound I've mistaken for rain until I realize that just can't be)

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Ha. Good one. Even there, though, Argentina is claiming
souvernty over their pie wedge.
Oriniginal point tho is that nat'l boundaries are determined
by force, which is the case anywhere there are
borders.

That's why I kind of wish I could live for a couple thousand years to see if historians draw the borders of America the same way we do today. What we're especially leaving behind everywhere we go is our non-biodegradable trash and military stuff. They may not find much evidence to support tourism around the world, but they'll find enough bullets and casings to solidly support America expanded its interests through military conquest, with evidence of global military hegemony. Will they think America took over Japan after WWII since America made some extremely tough demands of them after the war and kept a military presence afterward for many decades? How will the describe the situation in Germany with a continued military presence but while still having the divide between East and West? How will they explain West Berlin being walled off from East Berlin and the rest of East Germany? Will chunks of South America be considered a part of the US given that America overthrew their elected government to replace it with cooperative dictators? Will Iran-Contra be viewed as a territorial dispute between the US and USSR?
It would be interesting to know.

 

[Shad]

Oh? What country?

"Most immediate previous" does not count.

No one inhabited the area, no one owned the land. The land was wasteland (undeveloped and unused). The farm is in Canada, Sask.

 

[Audie]

No one inhabited the area, no one owned the land. The land was wasteland (undeveloped and unused). The farm is in Canada, Sask.

Ah Saskatchewan. Louis Riel, Moosejaw, RCMP museum.
Wheat. I have actually been there.

Saskatchewan sounds like a Indian (first nation to you ) name.

All of N and S America was inhabited for many millenia before
John Sebastion Cabot or Wolfe the Dauntless Hero.

Perhaps the plow turns up a flint arrowhead from time to time.

 

[Audie]

That's why I kind of wish I could live for a couple thousand years to see if historians draw the borders of America the same way we do today. What we're especially leaving behind everywhere we go is our non-biodegradable trash and military stuff. They may not find much evidence to support tourism around the world, but they'll find enough bullets and casings to solidly support America expanded its interests through military conquest, with evidence of global military hegemony. Will they think America took over Japan after WWII since America made some extremely tough demands of them after the war and kept a military presence afterward for many decades? How will the describe the situation in Germany with a continued military presence but while still having the divide between East and West? How will they explain West Berlin being walled off from East Berlin and the rest of East Germany? Will chunks of South America be considered a part of the US given that America overthrew their elected government to replace it with cooperative dictators? Will Iran-Contra be viewed as a territorial dispute between the US and USSR?
It would be interesting to know.

If China is the dominant power the history
will read differently than if-

If you could make one and only one round trip
to the future, how far would you go?

10 yrs (good for bets and investment advice)?

100?

1000?

50,000,000?

 

[Shadow Wolf]

If China is the dominant power the history
will read differently than if-

That's a very good point. Will Tibet even be recognized as a separate nation or another providence of China? Will North Korea be viewed as a tributary of China, and thus included in a Chinese map? How will they view the war in Vietnam against the French and Americans and who will they claim it for before, during, and after? And because Chinese technology is all over, will they realize we called an end to the Cold War? will they see it as an indication of a mutual global cooperation with China to fight against Muslims armies fighting against foreigners holding sovereignty over them, attempting to preserve and restore the Ottoman Empire, and operating globally to attempt to expand the old Caliphate to it's former glory?
If our electronic documents don't survive, the surge of globalization may appear rather odd and may be impossible for the future to adequately describe, because we are definitely moving around much more freely than we ever have before. It makes me wonder if they'll see the League of Nations and United Nations as attempts at a global state, as evidence by the fact the human remains in parts around the world suddenly becoming more ethnically diverse than ever before (though this may be seen more as having begun under the British Empire, where the sun never set, which it kind of did start there as it was certainly larger than Alexander's conquest and the Roman and Mongolian Empires - if they don't wonder if that's what the Catholic Church was trying to preserve post-Rome given we already woefully lack artifacts from that time)

 

[Shad]

Ah Saskatchewan. Louis Riel, Moosejaw, RCMP museum.
Wheat. I have actually been there.

I was east of those areas.

Saskatchewan sounds like a Indian (first nation to you ) name.

It is the English translation of Cree name (first nation) for one of the two major rivers running through the province.

All of N and S America was inhabited for many millenia before
John Sebastion Cabot or Wolfe the Dauntless Hero.

No it wasn't. Geographic barriers and development limited habitation. A lot Canada was wasteland unsuitable for even hunter/gather societies due to a lack of large herd migrating animals and bodies of water. Northern Ontario and Quebec for example.

Perhaps the plow turns up a flint arrowhead from time to time.

There is zero evidence of habitation in the area of my family farm. The major bodies of water are too far north or too far south for hunter/gather societies that didn't have anything close to agriculture nor ould use ground water. It is an area that around 7 tribes avoided for that reason. European agriculture opened it for settlement.

 

[Audie]

I was east of those areas.



It is the English translation of Cree name (first nation) for one of the two major rivers running through the province.



No it wasn't. Geographic barriers and development limited habitation. A lot Canada was wasteland unsuitable for even hunter/gather societies due to a lack of large herd migrating animals and bodies of water. Northern Ontario and Quebec for example.



There is zero evidence of habitation in the area of my family farm. The major bodies of water are too far north or too far south for hunter/gather societies that didn't have anything close to agriculture nor ould use ground water. It is an area that around 7 tribes avoided for that reason. European agriculture opened it for settlement.

I am no expert on the habitation of Canada,

It has been my understanding that no area
other than high mountains was entirely
unutilized at any season.

This area of Alaska, for example, sure looks
uninhabitable, but-

Stock Photo - Aerial view of a stream that runs through a tundra landscape filled with small ponds, Yukon Delta, Arctic Alaska

 

[metis]

It is the English translation of Cree name (first nation) for one of the two major rivers running through the province.

What I am going to say next adds nothing to the discussion, but let me just say that, as a Me'tis, I am part Cree, part Pawnee, and part from a tribe we are unsure of but which comes out of Quebec north of Hull where several tribes were meshed together on a reservation.