Why making your children follow your religion truly is brainwashing

[Me Myself]

I find it problematic and indoctrinating that you expect us to tell our children just to believe what they have scientific evidence for, honestly.

I am a big believer on intuition, while I would encourage my children for critical thiking I also thi its good for their sake they are able to listen to their intuitons and some things that may go beyond conventional evidence.

I have a friend whose whole family see ghosts in the house and some guests have seen them too. Sure, I could believe him to be lying, but I have no reason to. I dont think I am not being a critical thinker because I go with what I feel on it either, its just that everything has a place.

There are many anecdotal evidences of unexplainable things and this are the reasons why many atheists I know believe in such things. Actually, most of the atheists I know believe in something that can be called "supernatural" because of some unexplainable experience they have had.

I know what I know and I do think some stuff are known beyond evidence. I find many lf such owledges to be of high value to be taught and I wouldnt not teach my kids something I find of high value. Not sharing it with them doesnt make sense to me and lessenin it as simply "I believe x" doesnt either.

I dont need to say I believe in it. I am saying x is true is because of course ñi believe x to be true. i will tell em other people dont believe in x. If they ask me if they are wrong I am likely to tell them maybe.

Of course they ar eunlikely to understand how we could both be right which might start a conversation that would likely go with the points of different people believe different things. I am sure of this and I would love it if you could experiment this too. If s/he said s/he didnt believe it, I would just hug and tell him its okay and love hir.

I have little care for your aging labels, I was a very questioning kid since always. Sure, I accepted some stuff without further thought (like eating meat) but I did question many others.

A wonderful display of my critical thinking was when I told my parents I was not going to believe sex happens anywhere but in a laboratory with the scientists manually inserting the guys penis in the females vagina because anything else would be impossible and they could not convince me of it being otherwise

Ahhh been so advanced for my age always I guess

 

[LuisDantas]

This is as bad as the current "why cant we have a relationship with other men" thread.

Poor logic.

Nothing is inherently wrong or abusive with indoctrinating your child with religion.

It really depends on how insulated the child is; how respected he or she is in other situations; and how forceful the indoctrination is.

If a kids parents choose to structure the environment so that the child is predisposed to accept a certain religion- the child is not hurt except for when the religious practice crosses the line of abuse.

Yep. Our point exactly.

And we have laws that deal with abuse.

We have laws against corruption, homicide, and drug use as well.

The existence of laws dealing with something are an indication of the existence of a real problem, not that it is solved.

Raising your child without a religion or without the religious preference is a belief in itself.

Faulty logic here. The absence of a religion or doctrine is not the same as a religion or doctrine. You are proposing a false equivalency.

Those who advocate for it believe that this is a better way to raise the child.

And it is indeed. I will grant that it depends on what we consider indoctrination, and that there is little or no point in hiding one's beliefs from his own children, though.

Come to think of it, people with particularly extreme religious beliefs and dedication probably should be discouraged from raising children.

While people can point to the fact that religions cannot prove their claims,

That is hardly relevant. What is troublesome is that many make a point of betting on them and attempting to take their children along for the bet.

these same people have yet to demonstrate that raising your child religiously is more harmful.

If you want to reduce the matter to a simple choice between raising with religion or with no religion, I don't think this is even a choice at all.

Now, the solution is not to avoid religion, but rather to heal it. But still.

While some may direct our attention at different examples of religions harming children, they can not demonstrate this for ALL religions.

And that is relevant? How?

Therefore, suggesting that ALL religious indoctrination is bad is simply poor logic.

I suppose.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

If a parent is an Atheist, at some point in time the child will ask the parent "Why can't my friend eat bacon?" That's probably when the religious education will start for an atheist parent. Of course as an atheist, he will not only say "Because he is a Jew, and so on...". He will start telling him about why he, his father, doesn't believe in a God. And that is the exact same as a Jew telling his son why he does believe in a God. Both children will be raised in the parent's most ideal way because a parent only wants what he believes is best for his children.

********. I'm an atheist, and a parent, and have already had to explain to my daughters (eldest 5) about the Christenings she has attended, why some women wear a hijab (and that they're not ninjas) and why our friends say Grace before a meal when they come over.

I have explained each of these as best as I am able from the point of view of the people performing the religious act. She has no idea what my views on God are, and at this point I doubt she cares. If she asks me directly whether I believe in God, then I'd tell her I don't, but until then I see no need to tell her anything about my beliefs or lack thereof at all.

I've relayed the story before that when I was a primary school teacher I was the one who got the job of sitting in the religious education classes, since I knew the most about the bible. Awesome for me. I didn't use that position to colour the kids opinions, which I easily could have. Nor did I undermine the RE teachers, who were all amateurs from the local church, and amazingly poor in terms of both teaching ability and biblical knowledge.

When my daughter is old enough, interested enough, and cognitively advanced enough to ask me about my religious beliefs, then I'll discuss them with her. I will deliberately do it in as neutral a manner as possible, since her 'following' my beliefs is exactly what I want to avoid. I want to teach her to think.

So what I mean by "By that logic" is that whatever arguments you make against religious parents teaching their children the ways of their faith, you can make the same arguments for atheist parents teaching their kids why they don't have a religion.

So should I ask my Christian friends little tacker why he says Grace before every meal, and ask my daughter why she doesn't, and report back the findings?

 

[Koldo]

You're wrong. What about religion isn't about the worth of the individual and an understanding of worth in all life?

Belief in gods, circumcision, prayer, saints, reincarnation, rebirth, afterlife, spirit world, mediumship, dietary laws, proselytism, belief in divinely inspired texts, shatnez law, mantras, clerical celibacy, religious marriage...

It is not all about values.

 

[Koldo]

You kept rephrasing my statement wrong though , you gave it a whole new meaning actually. No big issue though

Oh, well...
This is a rather rare occasion for me.
To see myself as completely understanding someone else, and this person seeing otherwise.

 

[Magic Man]

Nothing is inherently wrong or abusive with indoctrinating your child with religion.

I disagree. I'd say it's wrong to indoctrinate your child with religious beliefs because it forces them into your worldview rather than allowing them the freedom to come to their own worldview.

Raising your child without a religion or without the religious preference is a belief in itself.

False. Raising children without religious beliefs but allowing them to learn about all different religions is not a belief in itself.

Those who advocate for it believe that this is a better way to raise the child.

Correct. Raising a child to think for him/herself is a better way to go. Supply them with the tools to think critically and let them make their own decisions.

While people can point to the fact that religions cannot prove their claims, these same people have yet to demonstrate that raising your child religiously is more harmful. While some may direct our attention at different examples of religions harming children, they can not demonstrate this for ALL religions. Therefore, suggesting that ALL religious indoctrination is bad is simply poor logic.

Any indoctrination is bad. It's better to teach kids to think for themselves, rather than tell them supposed facts and expect them to believe it because you said so.

 

[Koldo]

What freedom? I believe in "free will" (in a certain sense), that choices are not (fully) predetermined, etc., but that there is a "freedom" to choose that would be denied if child was indoctrinated into a religious background as opposed to a non-religious background? I don't believe that.

It is more like creating a loaded dice.

 

[ChristineES]

I am having trouble understanding any of this. How can we live in the same house with children and keep our belief system a secret? I knew from a very early age that my mother followed no religion, she didn't teach anything to me, but I knew from hearing her talk to friends and to family. I knew later, when I was eight and my stepfather first came into our lives that he followed Zen Buddhism. He never taught it to me, but he would tell us about some of the things his parents did. I did not directly teach my children about Christianity at all, but my kids found out about it. They'd ask questions about certain things. I felt if they could ask a question, that I could answer it (not just religion but almost anything). Sometimes, like when my son asked about sex, I told him he'd get better answers from his father as his father was a male like him. There are some things my husband and I have had to keep secret, and that has been incredibly difficult, to say the least.

 

[Koldo]

I am having trouble understanding any of this. How can we live in the same house with children and keep our belief system a secret?

I don't think anyone is saying that parents ought to keep their belief system a secret.

 

[Magic Man]

I am having trouble understanding any of this. How can we live in the same house with children and keep our belief system a secret?

I'm having trouble understanding how so many people are getting the idea that anyone is saying parents should keep their beliefs a secret.

 

[metis]

My sister decided to bring up her kids with no religious affiliation or education whatsoever, but when they got older, both got interested in religion but didn't have the "tools" to even know where to start. They ended up calling me, and I referred them to a book that my oldest daughter had that gave basic information on each religion and each major Christian denomination.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

My sister decided to bring up her kids with no religious affiliation or education whatsoever, but when they got older, both got interested in religion but didn't have the "tools" to even know where to start.

It's not rocket science. Pick a god, attend a church, or utilize a little tool we call a "search engine."

 

[metis]

It's not rocket science. Pick a god, attend a church, or utilize a little tool we call a "search engine."

But if one doesn't even begin to understand the basics, they can have a very difficult time attempting to discern which may be more logical. All that information can actually at time confuse more than help, and it's like a person who wants to build his own house and has all the tools but doesn't know how to use them.

It really isn't that easy.

 

[Kilgore Trout]

But if one doesn't even begin to understand the basics, they can have a very difficult time attempting to discern which may be more logical. All that information can actually at time confuse more than help, and it's like a person who wants to build his own house and has all the tools but doesn't know how to use them.

It really isn't that easy.

If someone was this easily flummoxed by religion, I'd hate to see how confusing they find the rest of life to be.

 

[Me Myself]

I disagree. I'd say it's wrong to indoctrinate your child with religious beliefs because it forces them into your worldview rather than allowing them the freedom to come to their own worldview.

The problem is that you think that they are completely unable to view any belief critically, so when you are not giving them your beliefs, everyone else around them is so they are still being "indoctrinated" not by you.

The thing is it is not indoctrination because you are not deliberately making them "not think" you are just teaching them and they, acording to you, are unable to think about it by their own nature.

Any indoctrination is bad. It's better to teach kids to think for themselves, rather than tell them supposed facts and expect them to believe it because you said so.

If they can think for themselves, then you can just teach them your religion as you know it (so, as true) and then they know how to think critically and reject any religious truth you shared with them.

I know I as a kid didnt at all accepted everything my parents said. I rejected some of it. Mother wanted me to pray more to "baby Jesus" but I was always more to pray to God directly. It didnt made sense to me then to pray to "baby" Jesus if he was already not a baby. I was a kid then.

So kids can very well reject stuff from their parents and do so.

 

[Koldo]

My sister decided to bring up her kids with no religious affiliation or education whatsoever, but when they got older, both got interested in religion but didn't have the "tools" to even know where to start. They ended up calling me, and I referred them to a book that my oldest daughter had that gave basic information on each religion and each major Christian denomination.

Was this before or after wikipedia?

 

[Enai de a lukal]

I am having trouble understanding any of this. How can we live in the same house with children and keep our belief system a secret?

Nobody is advocating that. This thread has turned into a field of strawmen.

 

[9-10ths_Penguin]

But if one doesn't even begin to understand the basics, they can have a very difficult time attempting to discern which may be more logical. All that information can actually at time confuse more than help, and it's like a person who wants to build his own house and has all the tools but doesn't know how to use them.

It really isn't that easy.

How would being forced into one religion help a person to "understand the basics"? How does being taught that other religions are all blasphemous better equip someone than not being taught about religion at all?

 

[Me Myself]

How would being forced into one religion help a person to "understand the basics"? How does being taught that other religions are all blasphemous better equip someone than not being taught about religion at all?

I think he is simply sahing teach the religion since the start.

I think a lot of confusion comes because one side says any teaching of the religion is "forced" because the kid wants to be like the parents.

The other like you simply wants it not to be punished if they dont want to follow.

 

[Magic Man]

The problem is that you think that they are completely unable to view any belief critically, so when you are not giving them your beliefs, everyone else around them is so they are still being "indoctrinated" not by you.

Which only matters if those others are authority figures. For instance, a friend's daughter is 7 and talked to her mom about how a kid at school told her about Jesus. That kid telling her that isn't indoctrination, because the kid is just a classmate, not someone with any control over her.

If they can think for themselves, then you can just teach them your religion as you know it (so, as true) and then they know how to think critically and reject any religious truth you shared with them.

This doesn't make sense. If you taught them to think critically and form their own conclusions, why would you then tell them your beliefs as if they're fact?

I know I as a kid didnt at all accepted everything my parents said. I rejected some of it. Mother wanted me to pray more to "baby Jesus" but I was always more to pray to God directly. It didnt made sense to me then to pray to "baby" Jesus if he was already not a baby. I was a kid then.

So kids can very well reject stuff from their parents and do so.

They sure can, but I'm not sure what this has to do with indoctrination.