Why making your children follow your religion truly is brainwashing

[Curious George]

Faulty logic here. The absence of a religion or doctrine is not the same as a religion or doctrine. You are proposing a false equivalency.


.

No, Luis.

You are mistaken in my point. While the absence of religion is not equal to religious belief, the belief that raising a child with the absence of religion is better than not, is most certainly equal to the belief that raising your child with religion is better than not.

 

[LuisDantas]

No, Luis.

You are mistaken in my point. While the absence of religion is not equal to religious belief, the belief that raising a child with the absence of religion is better than not, is most certainly equal to the belief that raising your child with religion is better than not.

On what do you base such a daring statement?

 

[Curious George]

.



False. Raising children without religious beliefs but allowing them to learn about all different religions is not a belief in itself.

Raising your child without religious beliefs may not serve as a belief per se, however the concept that raising your child in such a manner is better than not, is a belief.

 

[Curious George]

On what do you base such a daring statement?

Because both are unsubstantiated beliefs based on faulty logic.

 

[LuisDantas]

Because both are unsubstantiated beliefs based on faulty logic.

Uh... do you mean that?

 

[Magic Man]

No, Luis.

You are mistaken in my point. While the absence of religion is not equal to religious belief, the belief that raising a child with the absence of religion is better than not, is most certainly equal to the belief that raising your child with religion is better than not.

Sure, just like raising a child with the absence of the belief that alien lizards are living among us is equal to raising a child with that belief.

 

[Curious George]

Sure, just like raising a child with the absence of the belief that alien lizards are living among us is equal to raising a child with that belief.

Nope. You seem to miss the point. While raising you child with the belief is not equal to not, the belief that doing so is better than not is the same as the belief that not is better than doing so.

 

[Me Myself]

Which only matters if those others are authority figures. For instance, a friend's daughter is 7 and talked to her mom about how a kid at school told her about Jesus. That kid telling her that isn't indoctrination, because the kid is just a classmate, not someone with any control over her.

Authority has nothing to do with it. Trust does. Y dont believ ein someone because he has authority over you, you believe in someone because you somewhat trust in him. A kid is too trustworthy, so is likely to get a lot of beliefs from everywhere.

This doesn't make sense. If you taught them to think critically and form their own conclusions, why would you then tell them your beliefs as if they're fact?

Because they are

People are not believing their religion because they dont think its a fact. If the kid disagrees, and your reasons dont convince hir but you dont punish hir for it then there is nothing wrong with it.

You are telling hir what you believe and s/he decides what s/he takes.

They sure can, but I'm not sure what this has to do with indoctrination.

Think.

 

[Magic Man]

Nope. You seem to miss the point. While raising you child with the belief is not equal to not, the belief that doing so is better than not is the same as the belief that not is better than doing so.

With wording like that, I'm not sure how I could miss the point...

Look, the point is raising a kid with an absence of religion is not equal to raising them with religion. It's better to not indoctrinate the kid. Also, the belief that not indoctrinating kids is better than indoctrinating them is not equal to the reverse.

 

[metis]

Was this before or after wikipedia?

Before.

 

[Magic Man]

Authority has nothing to do with it. Trust does. Y dont believ ein someone because he has authority over you, you believe in someone because you somewhat trust in him. A kid is too trustworthy, so is likely to get a lot of beliefs from everywhere.

Just a word of advice: the last sentence should be "a kid is too trusting". "Trusting" is someone who trusts others. "Trustworthy" is someone who is worthy of others' trust. (I'm assuming you're not a native English speaker, which is why I point it out.)

Now, authority is key in indoctrination, as is trust, of course, but that's part of the authority.

You are telling hir what you believe and s/he decides what s/he takes.

Then you're not telling her supposed facts; you're telling her what you believe. That's quite a bit different.

Think.

You missed the point, which was that it wasn't relevant.

 

[metis]

How would being forced into one religion help a person to "understand the basics"? How does being taught that other religions are all blasphemous better equip someone than not being taught about religion at all?

That's never been our approach because I think it's entirely the wrong thing to do. Our kids were intentionally exposed to various religious beliefs, which is why they tend to be very open to different faiths including agnosticism and atheism. To me, teaching kids that the it's "my way or the highway" is repugnant.

 

[Curious George]

Also, the belief that not indoctrinating kids is better than indoctrinating them is not equal to the reverse.

Great. And if this is not just an unsubstantiated belief - prove it.

 

[metis]

If someone was this easily flummoxed by religion, I'd hate to see how confusing they find the rest of life to be.

But assuming that all religious thought is nonsense reflects more bias than intelligence. As there really is no way to be certain there's a God or Gods, neither is there a way to disprove it either. IMO, kids can be taught the basics so they eventually can decide for themsleves.

 

[Magic Man]

Great. And if this is not just an unsubstantiated belief - prove it.

OK, well, one is the belief that kids shouldn't be taught things as facts that aren't facts, and the other is the belief that kids should be taught things as fact, even though they aren't. The first one is obviously a better idea.

 

[Magic Man]

But assuming that all religious thought is nonsense reflects more bias than intelligence.

Nope, it reflects a firm grip on reality (assuming by "religious thought" you're talking about supernatural beliefs).

As there really is no way to be certain there's a God or Gods, neither is there a way to disprove it either.

True, the same way there's no way to disprove there are lizard aliens living among us disguised as humans who are trying to take over the world.

IMO, kids can be taught the basics so they eventually can decide for themsleves.

Indeed, but teaching them that your particular religion is the truth is not teaching them the basics so they can eventually decide for themselves.

 

[Curious George]

OK, well, one is the belief that kids shouldn't be taught things as facts that aren't facts, and the other is the belief that kids should be taught things as fact, even though they aren't. The first one is obviously a better idea.

No. It is not obviously better. Just because something is not true does not mean it is better to not believe it. This must be proven first. Hence, faulty logic and unsubstantiated belief.

 

[Magic Man]

No. It is not obviously better. Just because something is not true does not mean it is better to not believe it. This must be proven first. Hence, faulty logic and unsubstantiated belief.

Um...take a second and review what you just said.

 

[metis]

Nope, it reflects a firm grip on reality (assuming by "religious thought" you're talking about supernatural beliefs).



True, the same way there's no way to disprove there are lizard aliens living among us disguised as humans who are trying to take over the world.



Indeed, but teaching them that your particular religion is the truth is not teaching them the basics so they can eventually decide for themselves.

It appears that you're jumping into more assumptions than many theists. I'm an agnostic, but I do feel religious beliefs can have their value, plus who am I to point fingers and say they're wrong.

With the above statements, you're making it out that somehow you have this firm grip on "reality" and that any and all theists simply are living in delusion. People believe for a reason, and maybe you and I may disagree with their reasoning, but I'm simply not willing to strut around thinking I have all the right answers in this area.

 

[Curious George]

Um...take a second and review what you just said.

I looked. Did you misunderstand?