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Why No Major Western Religions?

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
I was asking if she wanted Greek Hellenistic culture back. Some things really deserve to fade away.
And even in polytheistic religions things change. That is the nature of humans. The myths and practices change with time. A Greek Hellenistic culture would adapt to the current age without giving up its most important relationships.
 

PearlSeeker

Well-Known Member
Why are all major religions from the East?

Even historically, Rome was full of Mirtha-worshippers and Manichaeans.

Why hasn't the West (Europe, the Americas etc.) produced any religions the likes of Islam or Zoroastrianism?

I'm not talking about small Pagan religions followed by a small amount of people who are essentially re-inventing it.

We just didn't seem to create anything on that scale and pass it along.
First come first served. First civilisations emerged in East.

"The presence of those rivers had a lot to do with why Mesopotamia developed complex societies and innovations such as writing, elaborate architecture and government bureaucracies. The regular flooding along the Tigris and the Euphrates made the land around them especially fertile and ideal for growing crops for food."

 

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
The Greeks were so misogynist that even the patriarchial Romans pushed back against their intense misogyny. Alexander the Great spread Hellenistic culture around through his conquests. Do you want that back again?
Just go back earlier in their culture and your statement would change.
 

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
First come first served. First civilisations emerged in East.

"The presence of those rivers had a lot to do with why Mesopotamia developed complex societies and innovations such as writing, elaborate architecture and government bureaucracies. The regular flooding along the Tigris and the Euphrates made the land around them especially fertile and ideal for growing crops for food."

This is true, but there were people living in Europe for thousands of years, into the Stone Age, and still nothing.
 

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
You might not like this, but here it is:

The central doctrines of the Enlightenment were individual liberty and religious tolerance, in opposition to an absolute monarchy and the power of religious authorities. The Enlightenment was marked by an increasing awareness of the relationship between the mind and the everyday media of the world,[12] and by an emphasis on the scientific method and reductionism, along with increased questioning of religious orthodoxy—an attitude captured by Kant's essay Answering the Question: What Is Enlightenment?, where the phrase sapere aude ('dare to know') can be found.[13]
What followed the age of enlightenment - Romanticism which saw there was more to life than what the age of enlightenment could offer.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
I disagree. Obviously
Most of cultural controls in the Pauline epistles are a kinder, gentler form of Hellenistic culture so that the early Christians wouldn't be persecuted by the more hardcore Hellenistic culture. Do you want to bring back the gynaeconomi, much like the religious police in Iran?
 

Rival

Diex Aie
Staff member
Premium Member
Greece had a profound impact on philosophy and science. Also on theology.
Yes, but they are essentially connected to the ME, not the rest of Europe. The Romans are really the first true European, West-looking civilisation. Sure Greece had philosophies, but they hardly spread to the Scandinavians etc.
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
Most of cultural controls in the Pauline epistles are a kinder, gentler form of Hellenistic culture so that the early Christians wouldn't be persecuted by the more hardcore Hellenistic culture. Do you want to bring back the gynaeconomi, much like the religious police in Iran?

You act like these were things that would have naturally continued. But what we don't know is .. well we don't know.

They never got the chance to continue and adapt their practices to modernity.

Stop with your dumb rhetorical questions.
 

TransmutingSoul

One Planet, One People, Please!
Premium Member
Many western spiritual practices of the native peoples were suppressed by Christianity. Those of the native Americans, native New Zealanders and native Australians come firstly to mind. We had a lot we could have learned from those traditional beliefs, by understanding them in a peaceful, loving and unity based manner.

Regards Tony
 

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
Most of cultural controls in the Pauline epistles are a kinder, gentler form of Hellenistic culture so that the early Christians wouldn't be persecuted by the more hardcore Hellenistic culture. Do you want to bring back the gynaeconomi, much like the religious police in Iran?
I don't want witch burning or executions for not accepting Christ to come back either. If you look into the earlier myths of the Greeks when there was still the oral tradition you get a different social culture although not well documented. Gynaeconomi was apparently not know until Demetrius of Phalerum thus and invention at that time when their culture was changing. So you can pick out something bad in any culture including the culture of the United Stated in our modern time. Given the long history of subjugation of women under Christian rule does not speak well for Christianity.
https://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Demetrius_of_Phalerum
 

Quintessence

Consults with Trees
Staff member
Premium Member
In the case of indigenous peoples, we're often talking about people who have been forcibly displaced to completely different ecosystems than where they traditionally lived.

The most famous example of this is the "Trail of Tears," where indigenous nations living in coastal Florida were forced to arid Oklahoma, but there are lots of others.

... so while everyone has an environment around them to pay attention to, for many indigenous people, the specific "other-than-human persons" their ancestors interacted with aren't still around.
Yes. It's something that has come up multiple times as I've been reading more literature written by indigenous citizens. As a Druid who also connects deeply with the land, I feel I can relate but at the same time can't imagine how traumatic being ripped from one's ancestral lands is. Even today, indigenous communities have to fight the United States for basic respect of their traditions. The citizens here, who don't practice indigenous or nature-based religions, just do not understand that deep connection to the land. They don't get why it is a problem to erect a new fancy telescope on a sacred mountain. I try not to think too much about it because it makes me mad when I do. :cry:
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
Why are all major religions from the East?

Even historically, Rome was full of Mirtha-worshippers and Manichaeans.

Why hasn't the West (Europe, the Americas etc.) produced any religions the likes of Islam or Zoroastrianism?

I'm not talking about small Pagan religions followed by a small amount of people who are essentially re-inventing it.

We just didn't seem to create anything on that scale and pass it along.
Starting a world religion is a very rare thing. I agree with you that is is odd that 3 of the 5 came from the same area -- the middle east. I don't have an answer for you on that matter. Good question! Perhaps we can begin by examining that World Religions come from great civilizations, and the only civilization that happened in Europe or the Americas happened AFTER an already existent religion moved in. Thoughts?

Now, you have touched on a small pet peeve of mine. I realize that many people think of "Europe-west, Asia-east." But scholars of religion do not have those same boundaries when they speak of east and west. The middle east may be part of Asia, but it is far to the west of India or China or Persia. Furthermore, the religions that originated in the middle east quickly came to dominate the near east as well as the west (meaning Europe.) Thus, the three monotheistic faiths are referred to by religious scholars as the Western religions.
 

crossfire

LHP Mercuræn Feminist Heretic Bully ☿
Premium Member
You act like these were things that would have naturally continued. But what we don't know is .. well we don't know.

They never got the chance to continue and adapt their practices to modernity.

Stop with your dumb rhetorical questions.
Actually, the Pauline Epistles of the New Testament, which were meant to protect the younger egalitarian Christian congregations from the wrath of the Greek Hellenistic culture, have actually served to perpetuate those practices and attitudes longer than it would have taken for them to fade away naturally
I don't want witch burning or executions for not accepting Christ to come back either. If you look into the earlier myths of the Greeks when there was still the oral tradition you get a different social culture although not well documented. Gynaeconomi was apparently not know until Demetrius of Phalerum thus and invention at that time when their culture was changing. So you can pick out something bad in any culture including the culture of the United Stated in our modern time. Given the long history of subjugation of women under Christian rule does not speak well for Christianity.
Demetrius of Phalerum - Wikipedia
I did specify Hellenistic Greek culture which was from the time period of Demetrius of Phalerum.
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
Actually, the Pauline Epistles of the New Testament, which were meant to protect the younger egalitarian Christian congregations from the wrath of the Greek Hellenistic culture, have actually served to perpetuate those practices and attitudes longer than it would have taken for them to fade away naturally

Ok?
 

Bear Wild

Well-Known Member
The subjegation of women happened when Indo-European patriarchy spread nearly worldwide. It existed in pagan Athens every bit as much as in Christian Rome. I don't understand your need to single out Christians on this regard.
I am not claiming perfection in pre-Christian societies but there were more options for women as seen in the druidic orders. Women were druids from what sources we have. The importance of the goddess is equally important as the god. After the Christian takeover woman were not allowed to be a part of the religious order. This was clearly a step backward for the place of women while we hear about the superiority of Christianity.
 

IndigoChild5559

Loving God and my neighbor as myself.
I am not claiming perfection in pre-Christian societies but there were more options for women as seen in the druidic orders. Women were druids from what sources we have. The importance of the goddess is equally important as the god. After the Christian takeover woman were not allowed to be a part of the religious order. This was clearly a step backward for the place of women while we hear about the superiority of Christianity.
Patriarchal culture was rampant around the world since the time of the Indo-European conquest. The existences of goddesses in cultures did not protect women from oppression. Some cultures were a little more open than others, but all of them were pretty bad. Consider how deeply misogynistic Greek and Roman culture was. SMH no, sorry dude. You cannot claim that paganism necessarily gives women a better deal.
 

The Hammer

Skald
Premium Member
. SMH no, sorry dude. You cannot claim that paganism necessarily gives women a better deal.
Because you seem to want to stay ignorant of actual history. You've got to stop generalizing things.


 
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