Why No Major Western Religions?

[crossfire]

Buddhism is a theology imo.

Do tell. While there are many types of sentient beings that can learn Buddhadharma, they are still sentient beings, subject to delusion.

 

[☆Dreamwind☆]

I think Native American Spirituality would probably be the closest bet? Maybe? Idk?

 

[pearl]

Why are all major religions from the East?

Jerusalem, holy city to Jews, Christins, Muslims. Something sure happened there. Lot of complaints from
Catholics when the priest no longer faced the Altar. Reasons given; the priest was to face the congregation.
Mass had now become a sort of two-way conversation. Previously, the priest and congregation together faced
the East, believed to be the direction from which would be the 2nd Coming.

 

[Rival]

Jerusalem, holy city to Jews, Christins, Muslims. Something sure happened there. Lot of complaints from
Catholics when the priest no longer faced the Altar. Reasons given; the priest was to face the congregation.
Mass had now become a sort of two-way conversation. Previously, the priest and congregation together faced
the East, believed to be the direction from which would be the 2nd Coming.

This has nothing to do really with my OP.

 

[Heyo]

Jerusalem, holy city to Jews, Christins, Muslims. Something sure happened there.

And is still happening. Jerusalem syndrome - Wikipedia
Must be something in the air.

 

[blü 2]

Judaism blended with classical Greek thought in Christianity, Christianity then blended with the might makes right Roman state, from there power politics and the obvious advantages for leaders of having a populace who believe being humble and submissive is a good thing were some reasons behind the Christian takeover of Europe. Druidical and other pagan religions before that were pretty organised, they had their own monuments, traditions, calendars, legends etc, they just lost out to a religion backed by more military and political power.

And used writing.

 

[Bear Wild]

I think it is also an important point to say that it has been in the Christian west that the idea of human rights has evolved, including women's rights. Such cultural changes take many hundreds of years, and it will be another hundred years before women are truly equal in our society. Nevertheless, credit where credit is due.

Yes, I agree let's give credit where credit is due.

1. From comparative scholarly studies who treated Tenets better pagans or Christians during the time that both were coexisting in Ireland before Ireland became totally Christian. Hint it was not the Christians.

2. Exactly when did Christian's champion women's rights. When was the first woman pope elected. I couldn't find the name anywhere but with equal rights there must be a female pope somewhere.

3. How tolerant were Christians to people of other religions since they are so noble and into human rights?

4. What was the effect when Christians recognized God as a man and not a woman. And it does have an effect on people when God presented as a man and not a woman.

Look forward to hearing from you, sincerely Bear Wild.

 

[Bear Wild]

And used writing.

Which solidified belief in the past while oral traditions would adapt to changing times.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yes, I agree let's give credit where credit is due.

1. From comparative scholarly studies who treated Tenets better pagans or Christians during the time that both were coexisting in Ireland before Ireland became totally Christian. Hint it was not the Christians.

Tenets?

2. Exactly when did Christian's champion women's rights. When was the first woman pope elected. I couldn't find the name anywhere but with equal rights there must be a female pope somewhere.

For example, the women's suffrage movement was religion based. Pentecostals began ordaining women way back at the beginning of the 20th century, based on their interpretation of Scripture.

For you to bring up that there is still work to be done, is simply agreeing with what I've already said.

3. How tolerant were Christians to people of other religions since they are so noble and into human rights?

Depends on when in history. The Catholic church today goes way out of its way to establish good relations with other religions. Compare that to the situation between Hindus and Muslims in India.

4. What was the effect when Christians recognized God as a man and not a woman. And it does have an effect on people when God presented as a man and not a woman.

Most of the Christians that I know today agree that God transcends sex. Either representation of God, either as a man OR as a woman, falls short.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Be a hippie

 

[Bear Wild]

Tenets?

For example, the women's suffrage movement was religion based. Pentecostals began ordaining women way back at the beginning of the 20th century, based on their interpretation of Scripture.

For you to bring up that there is still work to be done, is simply agreeing with what I've already said.

Depends on when in history. The Catholic church today goes way out of its way to establish good relations with other religions. Compare that to the situation between Hindus and Muslims in India.

Most of the Christians that I know today agree that God transcends sex. Either representation of God, either as a man OR as a woman, falls short.

Tenants is a word i used because I cannot remember the term in the studies. It referred to the people who worked for the people who were pagan and who were Christian. In these studies, those working for Christians were treated worse.

The woman's suffrage was based on the only religion available, and they had no other source in a religion dominated by men but supported but the increasing secular society that was developing. But how long did it take in the Christian history for this to occur?

Exactly how tolerant has the Christian religion been to other religions. Did they respect the and accept them. How well did they treat the Native Americans? How many graves of Native American children have been found in schools run but Christians?

Compare the number of popes that have been women vs druids that were women.

The Christians I have known especially in the south see god as male. He came to earth as Jesus not Mary. That profound statement that god came to earth as a man did have an influence. To say it didn't is to not understand human behavior.

If you want to talk about modern times, the most tolerant people I have known are pagans not Christians. This is in general and not in the exceptions. I spent a long time in the Christian religion to see the generous intolerance.

There is a cultural desire to see Christianity only in a good light in the country so I can understand the desire. to see it only in a good light.

I appreciate your arguments so look forward to your response.

 

[Bear Wild]

Be a hippie

Was one but that was a long time ago.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Tenants is a word i used because I cannot remember the term in the studies.

Oh, okay tenants. I think perhaps the word you are looking for is surfs. As far as I'm concerned, surfs are simply slavery 2.0. Unfortunately, for most of human history, most of the world has had slaves. They have been a part of pagan societies as well as monotheistic societies.

For example, St. Patrick was a Scot who was enslaved by the pagans in Ireland. "Social hierarchy was very much prevalent in early Irish society. You were either free (Saor) or unfree (Daor). Slaves obviously fall into the latter category and as a slave, you were considered an ambue (non-person) and had no protection against being killed or injured.

Slavery and Hostages in Early Medieval Ireland

Slavery Social hierarchy was very much prevalent in early Irish society. You were either free (Saor) or unfree (Daor). Slaves obviously fall into the latter category and as a slave, you were consid…

irishfolklore.wordpress.com

The abolition movement, when it finally came, was decidedly Christian.

The woman's suffrage was based on the only religion available, and they had no other source in a religion dominated by men but supported but the increasing secular society that was developing. But how long did it take in the Christian history for this to occur?

Christianity has only been around a mere 2000 years. Humanity has been around for over 200,000. My point is that the women's rights movement began as an extension of Christian thought, starting with the Suffragettes. You didn't have women's rights back in Athens for example, or in Rome.

Exactly how tolerant has the Christian religion been to other religions. Did they respect the and accept them. How well did they treat the Native Americans? How many graves of Native American children have been found in schools run but Christians?

Again, it depends on when in history you examine Christianity. As it exists today, its very peaceful, and supports freedom of religion.

I'm not excusing the European treatment of the Native Americans, but surely you must be aware that before any white man ever set foot on North America, they made war against each other, had slaves, engaged in torture, etc. Yes, the white man pushed the Lakota off his land, but the Lakota were only there because they originally pushed the Crow off THEIR land. And so on. I'm afraid that human nature is pretty universal.

Compare the number of popes that have been women vs druids that were women.

Give them time. It will come.

You keep bringing up Druids. These were people who did human sacrifice, and you want to hold them up as the ideal?

If you want to talk about modern times, the most tolerant people I have known are pagans not Christians.

That has not been my experience. I have met very tolerant loving people of all religions, and I've met mean, hateful people in all religions. Human nature does not suddenly change when a person joins a particular religious groups. If you were an a-hole before, you will be an a-hole in your new group.

This is in general and not in the exceptions. I spent a long time in the Christian religion to see the generous intolerance.

Sorry, that is just not my experience. Perhaps I have just had more time with mainline Christians. I stay away from fundamentalists of all religions.

Are you even aware of the interfaith prayer services that the Pope hosts? He gets together with Buddhists and Hindus and all the rest. They even had Native American dances.

Again, I don't think you are giving fair acknowledgement to the strides Christianity has made towards greater tolerance.

Would you say that the Roman pagans who sent Christians to die horrible deaths in the Coliseum were tolerant of other religions? Would you say that the Greeks who forced Hellenization on the world were tolerant? As a Jew, I can tell you some pretty nasty nasty things that the Greek pagans did to us in Judea.

There is a cultural desire to see Christianity only in a good light in the country so I can understand the desire. to see it only in a good light.

But you are doing the exactly same thing with paganism, filtering out the bad in your group, while accentuating the bad in the other group.

I'm sorry, but my experience is simply that humans will be humans, regardless of religion. There is no magic bullet that makes a nasty person into a good and kind one.

 

[Augustus]

Tenants is a word i used because I cannot remember the term in the studies. It referred to the people who worked for the people who were pagan and who were Christian. In these studies, those working for Christians were treated worse.

Do you have a link to any of these studies?

Who are the groups and times being compared?

There is a cultural desire to see Christianity only in a good light in the country so I can understand the desire. to see it only in a good light.

Perhaps in America, in Western Europe it’s mostly the opposite.

The scholarly consensus is far more positive than the pop culture view.

It was only when I started reading some scholarly history that I found out that all the “Christian Dark Ages” putting an end to a rational and proto-humanistic Classical Antiquity type tropes were largely fabricated as sectarian and anti-religious polemics.

These views are so deeply entrenched as being “what everyone knows” that most folk will dismiss peer-reviewed secular texts out of hand as “apologetics” if they go against the popular view.

I can think of few topics where the difference between scholars and the general public are more pronounced.

 

[Tomef]

You can’t do theoretical physics without focusing on probability. It’s foundational to thermodynamics and quantum mechanics.

I think you understood what I meant - giving you the benefit of the doubt. As per your original post that I responded to, the question was not how science is done but the selective quoting of issues with the express purpose of bolstering a belief, rather than the more honourable intent to understand. Arguments of the sort ‘that’s improbable so there must be a god’ are made in bad faith.

 

[RestlessSoul]

I think you understood what I meant - giving you the benefit of the doubt. As per your original post that I responded to, the question was not how science is done but the selective quoting of issues with the express purpose of bolstering a belief, rather than the more honourable intent to understand. Arguments of the sort ‘that’s improbable so there must be a god’ are made in bad faith.

Consideration of the philosophical implications of scientific theories and discoveries, is not generally undertaken in bad faith. A rush to dismiss without consideration, the extraordinary improbability of a universe capable of supporting conscious observers, looks very much like bad faith.

Stephen Hawking, a self proclaimed atheist, spent considerable intellectual energy on the "fine-tuning" problem, and the utterly insignificant probability of the initial low entropy conditions of the universe post Big Bang. See also Roger Penrose on the extraordinary specialness of the early universe.

 

[MonkeyFire]

Believe in calmness and destroy boredom and worry with your calm. Have serene trust in the dharma. When a believer remains calm, himsa becomes ahimsa, and Faith creates goodness and protection. Imagine a fire remaining even in the wind as it emits heat and light.

 

[Tomef]

Consideration of the philosophical implications of scientific theories and discoveries, is not generally undertaken in bad faith. A rush to dismiss without consideration, the extraordinary improbability of a universe capable of supporting conscious observers, looks very much like bad faith.

Stephen Hawking, a self proclaimed atheist, spent considerable intellectual energy on the "fine-tuning" problem, and the utterly insignificant probability of the initial low entropy conditions of the universe post Big Bang. See also Roger Penrose on the extraordinary specialness of the early universe.

I don’t know if you are deliberately misconstruing what I’ve said a couple of times, or if you don’t get the point here - if you read the posts you responded to, the question isn’t about how science is done, but about the knee-jerk throwing of god into the equation, as if the difficulty of understanding how the universe came to be somehow leads to the 'god must have done it' belief. That’s the second time I’ve explained that, but you are responding as if I said something else. Are you not understanding the difference here?

a) how science is done /what science can/can’t explain

b) there must be a god because science can’t provide all the answers

These are two different things.

 

[Rival]

Consideration of the philosophical implications of scientific theories and discoveries, is not generally undertaken in bad faith. A rush to dismiss without consideration, the extraordinary improbability of a universe capable of supporting conscious observers, looks very much like bad faith.

Stephen Hawking, a self proclaimed atheist, spent considerable intellectual energy on the "fine-tuning" problem, and the utterly insignificant probability of the initial low entropy conditions of the universe post Big Bang. See also Roger Penrose on the extraordinary specialness of the early universe.

Guys what?

This whole debate is from another thread.

 

[RestlessSoul]

Guys what?

This whole debate is from another thread.

Yeah, so it seems. Sorry. Not sure how that’s happened tbh