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Why "one God"?

If you are asking me to consider the Quraan as an external book, please do consider the Quraan as an internal book and ask yourself same question also.
Imagine you are in front of God and God is asking you " Why you chose not to look at the Quraan and study Islam to know if it is truly what I sent"
Best regards
How can you say Quraan as an internal book- were you born with this knowledge? NO. its knowledge came to you through the outside world. maybe from your parents or others. But that is not the case with morale and other virtues.
were you born with morale -Yes. This is what came along with your birth. when i wrote about this, i didn't want you to follow me or something else, i told you to follow what's according to your morale, not according to your religion.

Earlier, you said that Islam should not hold one back - but when it came to evolution, you were telling or believing something that is not acceptable to science. Religion is holding you back. you just need to realize it.[/QUOTE]

When it comes to evolution, it is not just because of Islam I don't accept evolution, logically there are many things I can't accept about evolution one of which is that we came from apes.

However this is not our topic, what you are suggesting is not logical. Again let me remind you that there were people living in jungles and they had to fight for their lives. Where are the morals you are talking about for those people?

You are suggesting the internal and external thing and seem to say that the truth must be born with the person, what if it wasn't? what is your proof?

If that was the case than I will tell you again that we wouldn't have seen many people lacking morals in the first place.[/QUOTE]

If mankind evolved from Apes (Chimp/gorillas) how come that there are still apes living with us today? Shouldn't every one of them have evolved to be human beings? If Ev. is true why did gorillas which weigh about 300 Kg shrink to man size? How come apes don't speak a language and build homes and cook food, in these days?
 

Ouroboros

Coincidentia oppositorum
When atheists are facing immediate death or some terrible thing don't they call upon God?
Not really. Couple of times I had some close calls. God wasn't on my mind at that moment. So, nah.

There was one atheist philosopher who was a professor at a famous US university. He was asked a question at a seminar about a famous person and he had to think hard. As he was struggling to think of an answer, he said: "O my god...how could I have forgotten such a famous name?." It just goes to show that atheists are really in thier hearts not atheists.
"Oh, my God" is an expression, like "Oh, s**t." Doesn't mean anything.

Somebody said truthfully: "There are no atheists in foxholes."
Except that there's been several soldiers who have pointed out that they're atheists, even in battle (foxholes).

It means when death is imminent all atheists become theists. Someone else said this: Atheists get converted to theists on the way down. (way down to hell, that is).
This is just something insecure theists have to tell themselves to help them believe they got it right. It's fear that the atheists might have something that they theists don't. If you fear of being wrong, then start think about what it is that you're really believe in. If you're solid in your belief, you don't have to feel threatened.

The thing is, if you want to be taken serious as a theist, you have to figure out what kind of arguments are valid or not. The only one your convincing with this argument is yourself and no one else.
 
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serenee19

New Member
Humanity has evolved throughout the millennia. Our first god was nature and animals. With ancient Rome and Egypt, we progressed to gods. With Abraham, we evolved to One God. Judaism, Christianity, Islam and now Baha'i Faith have all the same One God.
Humanity evolves through religion, thought and society through thousands of years. We were nomads, we founded towns then cities. We were tribes, went to found empires then countries. This is true evolution of the human species. In Jesus' time there was no concept of continents. In the time of Muhammad, North America wasn't known to Europe. With travel, technology, new ideas develop, our minds evolve.
Seems logical to me.
 

rrosskopf

LDS High Priest
There is only "ONE GOD".

why did you accept it? How does this make sense? What are its properties? (volume, weight, mass etc,). What was/is its necessity?

Please post your comments.
Thanking you
I don't. Where there is one, there must be more. The only exception is the universe. There is only one universe, because "uni" means one; if there were more than one we would have to call it something else. The universe, by definition, includes everything that exists. If at least one God exists, then he is a member of the universe. If he is real, then he has properties. The tendency of modern Christians to exaggerate the attributes of God into non-reality is troubling, to say the least. Is it easier to believe in an impossible being, than a real one?

This whole idea of there just being one God is a misunderstanding that traces to the Deuteronomic reform. Prior to that, the Jews believed in a pantheon of gods, much like virtually every other nation in Europe. Jehovah, the God of Israel, taught that there was no other god... for the Israelites! Deuteronomy, the book that obstensivly sparked the reform, actually supports the idea of multiple gods, each assigned to different nations by God Almighty.

"When the Most High assigned lands to the nations, when he divided up the human race, he established the boundaries of the peoples according to the number in his heavenly court."
Deuteronomy 32:8, New Living Translation

Those in the heavenly court, he called gods. This was the critical point in Jesus's defense, when accused of blasphemy.

"Jesus replied, "It is written in your own Scriptures that God said to certain leaders of the people, 'I say, you are gods!'"
John 10:34

These "leaders" were the archons in the Heavenly Court. The scripture that Jesus was quoting, can be found in Psalms 82:6. We can discover the topic of the psalm in the very first verse:

"God presides over heaven's court; he pronounces judgment on the heavenly beings:"
Psalms 82:1

During the Deuteronomic reform, the Jews took out the Brazen Serpent from the Temple, where it had stood for hundreds of years, and melted it down. The Brazen Serpent represented the Son of God, which defied the Jews new belief in just one god.

"And as Moses lifted up the bronze snake on a pole in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up..."
John 3:14

There is no obvious connect between these two things, unless the Jews already knew the obvious connection, that one fore-shadowed the other.

The Jews were worshipping all sorts of gods from neighboring nations, so the Deuteronomic Reform was necessary. They just went too far. Jesus did his part to restore the older traditions, which he probably learned in Egypt. I suspect that part of the rejection of the Heavenly Court, was a rejection of Israelite faith, as opposed to Jewish faith. Many Israelites escaped the destruction of Israel to live in Egypt. It is little wonder that the Jews of Jerusalem questioned Jesus as to where he learned such things.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
There is only "ONE GOD".

why did you accept it?
Because a bunch of redundant omnipotent God's is illogical and a violation of Occam's razor. Having a bunch of non-omnipotent God's is impossible and a violation of Occam's razor, and having one omnipotent God who created non-omnipotent God's is incoherent and also a violation of Occam's razor.


How does this make sense?
How does it not?

What are its properties? (volume, weight, mass etc,).
0,0,0 and not relevant in any way to your original question.

What was/is its necessity?
I take it you meant to ask why God must exist. Cause and effect making infinite causal regression impossible and an uncaused first cause inevitable, the presence of rationality in nature, the existence of morality (objective), the presence of information in nature, the viability of faith in a historical, philosophical, and experiential sense, to explain the almost universal belief in the transcendent. How many do you want, I can go on all day.
 
Because a bunch of redundant omnipotent God's is illogical and a violation of Occam's razor. Having a bunch of non-omnipotent God's is impossible and a violation of Occam's razor, and having one omnipotent God who created non-omnipotent God's is incoherent and also a violation of Occam's razor.

Below is an excerpt from the Occam's razor Wikipedia entry:

Occam's razor
(also written as Ockham's razor and in Latin lex parsimoniae) is a problem-solving principle devised by William of Ockham (c. 1287–1347), who was an English Franciscan friar and scholastic philosopher and theologian. The principle states that among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected. Other, more complicated solutions may ultimately prove correct, but—in the absence of certainty—the fewer assumptions that are made, the better.

Since god cannot be physically proven to exist, god's very existence is an assumption. Occam's razor does not support the existence of a god, let alone your god.
 
I take it you meant to ask why God must exist. Cause and effect making infinite causal regression impossible and an uncaused first cause inevitable, the presence of rationality in nature, the existence of morality (objective), the presence of information in nature, the viability of faith in a historical, philosophical, and experiential sense, to explain the almost universal belief in the transcendent. How many do you want, I can go on all day.

So to simplify, don't understand/have all the answers = My god did it! Nice god of the gaps argument.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
So to simplify, don't understand/have all the answers = My god did it! Nice god of the gaps argument.
Say what? Regardless, that means that if your denying it your doing so based on a science of the gaps argument. My arguments were two things:

1. To the reasonability of faith in a hypothesis suggested by thousand of lines of evidence.
2. Logically deduced.

If you want to go through some of them one by one I will give you the philosophical principles which validate the steps in each argument from the cosmological through the teleological. I did not word my previous claims to stand up to a technical evaluation (yet they are still perfectly reasonable) but will restate them in their formal form if you want to see who is making arguments from philosophical soundness.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
Below is an excerpt from the Occam's razor Wikipedia entry:

Occam's razor
(also written as Ockham's razor and in Latin lex parsimoniae) is a problem-solving principle devised by William of Ockham (c. 1287–1347), who was an English Franciscan friar and scholastic philosopher and theologian. The principle states that among competing hypotheses, the one with the fewest assumptions should be selected. Other, more complicated solutions may ultimately prove correct, but—in the absence of certainty—the fewer assumptions that are made, the better.

Since god cannot be physically proven to exist, god's very existence is an assumption. Occam's razor does not support the existence of a god, let alone your god.
I know what it is, I am the one who referred to it. I have a degree in a scientific field and had to use it constantly.

You asked why only one God. That question sets it's self up against multiple God's not a no God scenario. Occam's razor suggests that if no compelling reason exists to multiply causal agents then resolve there is only one until warranted to grant others. So I have no idea why you posted a justification of exactly why I used it.

It is not an either proven or assumed issue. There is an entire realm of differing valued grey areas of evidence based deductions in between. As I said before I can give you an academic and rigorous proof of the validity of my arguments once stated in a formal way if you question that.

In addition to this the post I responded to was about why I believe in one God not a God or even why my God. My responses were an answer to that not the other. Your responses seem to have taken my arguments and used them for another purposes and claim they don't work for what they were not used for.

I see this and know I am debating against emotion and preference, not reason.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
That is the teaching of my religion, and what I was brought up to believe. But when I questioned my beliefs, I was still led back to the simple elegance of one God, a sole source and single cause for all things.

We believe God has no physicality, and therefore no physical properties.
This seems contradictory. At the very least, you're assuming enough properties to conclude that God is singular (as opposed to a mass quantity, for instance).

Isn't countability a physical property?
 

morphesium

Active Member
Thank you for the reply.

I don't. Where there is one, there must be more. The only exception is the universe. There is only one universe, because "uni" means one; if there were more than one we would have to call it something else. The universe, by definition, includes everything that exists. If at least one God exists, then he is a member of the universe. If he is real, then he has properties. The tendency of modern Christians to exaggerate the attributes of God into non-reality is troubling, to say the least. Is it easier to believe in an impossible being, than a real one?


Good reasoning.:thumbsup: :clapping:

This whole idea of there just being one God is a misunderstanding that traces to the Deuteronomic reform. Prior to that, the Jews believed in a pantheon of gods, much like virtually every other nation in Europe. Jehovah, the God of Israel, taught that there was no other god... for the Israelites! Deuteronomy, the book that obstensivly sparked the reform, actually supports the idea of multiple gods, each assigned to different nations by God Almighty.

"When the Most High assigned lands to the nations, when he divided up the human race, he established the boundaries of the peoples according to the number in his heavenly court."
Deuteronomy 32:8, New Living Translation

Those in the heavenly court, he called gods. This was the critical point in Jesus's defense, when accused of blasphemy.

"Jesus replied, "It is written in your own Scriptures that God said to certain leaders of the people, 'I say, you are gods!'"
John 10:34

These "leaders" were the archons in the Heavenly Court. The scripture that Jesus was quoting, can be found in Psalms 82:6. We can discover the topic of the psalm in the very first verse:

"God presides over heaven's court; he pronounces judgment on the heavenly beings:"
Psalms 82:1

During the Deuteronomic reform, the Jews took out the Brazen Serpent from the Temple, where it had stood for hundreds of years, and melted it down. The Brazen Serpent represented the Son of God, which defied the Jews new belief in just one god.

"And as Moses lifted up the bronze snake on a pole in the wilderness, so the Son of Man must be lifted up..."
John 3:14

There is no obvious connect between these two things, unless the Jews already knew the obvious connection, that one fore-shadowed the other.

The Jews were worshipping all sorts of gods from neighboring nations, so the Deuteronomic Reform was necessary. They just went too far. Jesus did his part to restore the older traditions, which he probably learned in Egypt. I suspect that part of the rejection of the Heavenly Court, was a rejection of Israelite faith, as opposed to Jewish faith. Many Israelites escaped the destruction of Israel to live in Egypt. It is little wonder that the Jews of Jerusalem questioned Jesus as to where he learned such things.
Actually, the reason why the thread was titled "Why one God" is this -
To count an object, you have to be sure that there is a mathematical property associated with the object which enables us to count those kind of objects. for example, we can count apples and grapes, but can we count space, water, etc; NO (these have uncountable property). we say little space, some water etc but not one water (one liter of water is different - it is the liter we count). Even there are things that cannot be included in any of the above categories. we have waves and alternating currents whose properties are explained with the help of complex numbers. We have electrons that exhibits wave like and particle like nature at the same time, can exist at two or more different places at the same time and so on.
What I am asking is when we say one God, How do we know that God has the mathematical property which enables us to count God. what i am saying isn't it more truthful or more elegant to say just "God" than "one God"


I was just disagreeing with monotheism with this post. Personally, i don't agree with the concept that an amazingly complex and intelligent and powerful thing (God) existed even before creation and it created the world as we know it today. i believe in simplicity - simple beginning; getting more and more complex, more and more intelligent etc through evolution.
best regards.
 

rrosskopf

LDS High Priest
Because a bunch of redundant omnipotent God's is illogical and a violation of Occam's razor.
That seems like a stretch. Occam's razor doesn't prove or disprove anything. It is a measure of probability attached to an actuality. I think you are using it wrong. Wouldn't someone first have to have an event or an explanation of some event before applying Occam's razor? Now if the question was "Who created the earth?", then one could apply Occam's Razor to suggest the simplest explanation. Just to see how far this goes, let's compare the two obvious choices 1) an intelligent being created the earth or 2) gravity and circumstance created the earth. Which theory has the fewest assumptions? I admit that this line of reasoning has me stumped. To assume that some being (or beings) could create an earth seems like an assumption, but the obverse is also an assumption. It seems that one has to have faith in either case; either faith in coincidence or faith in design. I really don't see either choice having fewer assumptions than the other.
Applied to the question at hand, as to whether it is more likely that the earth was created by one being or multiple beings, doesn't Occam's Razor support the latter? With the latter theory, we don't have to assume the existence of an omnipotent being (in the modern Christian view), we only have to assume something that is already apparent; the resourcefulness of the human species.
 

rrosskopf

LDS High Priest
Since god cannot be physically proven to exist
By who? Certainly those that know him require no such proof. One could hardly expect those who don't know him to prove his existence. Did you mean in a general sense? If some being came to earth and claimed to be God, how would one go about proving or disproving his declaration? Doesn't it require that one assume certain attributes? Unless you know precisely what those attributes are, how do you know he can't be proven to exist? The best that you can truthfully say is that no one has proven it to you.
 

rrosskopf

LDS High Priest
Isn't countability a physical property?
I agree. Things are defined by their physical properties. It is illogical to believe in things that have no properties, and certainly conveys no useful information. At the very least God (at least according to the Judeo-Christian faith) is extraterrestrial, intelligent, and interferes with human history. All three denote physical attributes.
 

morphesium

Active Member
Thankyou for your reply.

......

..... 0,0,0 and not relevant in any way to your original question.

Since, concerning physical properties you said "0,0,0" which i suppose should mean " I don't know".
Now that you agree about the physical properties of God (that we know nothing about it); what about its mathematical property?
(here I am quoting some text from my previous post)

To count an object, you have to be sure that there is a mathematical property associated with the object which enables us to count those kind of objects. for example, we can count apples and grapes, but can we count space, water, etc; NO (these have uncountable property). we say little space, some water etc but not one water (one liter of water is different - it is the liter we count). Even there are things that cannot be included in any of the above categories. we have waves and alternating currents whose properties are explained with the help of complex numbers. We have electrons that exhibits wave like and particle like nature at the same time, can exist at two or more different places at the same time and so on.
What I am asking is when we say one God, How do we know that God has the mathematical property which enables us to count God. what i am saying isn't it more truthful or more elegant to say just "God" than "one God"

I take it you meant to ask why God must exist. Cause and effect making infinite causal regression impossible and an uncaused first cause inevitable, the presence of rationality in nature, the existence of morality (objective), the presence of information in nature, the viability of faith in a historical, philosophical, and experiential sense, to explain the almost universal belief in the transcendent. How many do you want, I can go on all day.

So to say God exists one has to agree with this; an incredibly complex and intelligent and powerful thing (God) existed even before creation and it created the world as we know it today. So
  1. a very complex God created the lesser complex universe ( God is even beyond our imagination than the known and unknown universe combined). After all, we have made theories that could predict something real in the universe, but nothing about God.
  2. a more intelligent God existed even before creation so that it could create the (lesser) intelligence in the whole universe.
  3. a more powerful God existed even before creation so that so that it could create the (lesser powerful) universe.

or did it all started this way; simple beginning; getting more and more complex, more and more intelligent etc through evolution?
best regards.
 
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Sha'irullah

رسول الآلهة
Having one god is merely more simpler when you look at it. Requires less memorization in order to worship it. But polytheism is more poetic and allows for elaborate stories and mythologies.
Also it is good to take into account that Christianity and Islam are both polytheistic. Angels are just subordinate gods and Islam values prophets as divine. This is why they pray to Muhammad in their prayers and value his name so highly. He even negotiated with Allah on behalf of humans.

Christianity of course has 3 gods plus all the angels. Catholicism has a vast amount of gods as well.
 

Harikrish

Active Member
There cannot be one God.

Genesis 1:26 Then God said, "Let us make man in our image, in our likeness, and let them rule over the fish of the sea and the birds of the air, over the livestock, over all the earth, and over all the creatures that move along the ground."

The 'us' does not say who all are there in heaven. But it suggests a plurality of Gods(some Pagan), angels , heavenly beings.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
All human beings are emotional and irrational by nature.
And some conquer those tendencies to an extent that rational deductions and discussions may be held. However you seem to be responding from the former category not the latter.



That's why most of the human population believes in one or more of the following: gods, luck, alien abductions, big foot, the lochness monster, ghosts, spirits, and ESP. Your god is no different than anyone else's god (past, present, and future) in that it only exists in your imagination. No amount of scientific terms applied to your god belief system will make it any more real.
My God is profoundly different from every single thing you listed in almost every core concern. I have had it with these declarations you keep making instead of arguments. I'm am right your wrong, God does not exist, there is no evidence, etc. are not arguments they are ridiculous proclamations that defy mountains of data and scholarship. I submitted a post in another thread that I will copy here. It is the last chance I am going to take that you can produce a good argument so lets see what you got.

Lets start off with a man who may be the greatest expert in testimony and evidence in history and has forgotten more about them than you will ever know.

Simon Greenleaf (1783-1853) was the famous Royall Professor of Law at Harvard University, and succeeded Justice Joseph Story as the Dane Professor of Law in the same university, upon Story's death in 1846. H. W. H Knott says of this great authority in jurisprudence: "To the efforts of Story and Greenleaf is to be ascribed the rise of the Harvard Law School to its eminent position among the legal schools of the United States." Greenleaf produced a famous work entitled A Treatise on the Law of Evidence which "is still considered the greatest single authority on evidence in the entire literature of legal procedure."
In 1846, while still Professor of Law at Harvard, Greenleaf wrote a volume entitled An Examination of the Testimony of the Four Evangelists by the Rules of Evidence Administered in the Courts of Justice. In his classic work the author examines the value of the testimony of the apostles to the resurrection of Christ.

The following are this brilliant jurist's critical observations:
The great truths which the apostles declared, were, that Christ had risen from the dead, and that only through repentance from sin, and faith in Him, could men hope for salvation. This doctrine they asserted with one voice, everywhere, not only under the greatest discouragements, but in the face of the most appalling errors that can be represented to the mind of man. Their master had recently perished as a malefactor, by the sentence of a public tribunal. His religion sought to overthrow the religions of the whole world. The laws of every country were against the teachings of His disciples. The interests and passions of all the rulers and great men in the world were against them. The fashion of the world was against them. Propagating this new faith, even in the most inoffensive and peaceful manner, they could expect nothing but contempt, opposition, reviling's, bitter persecutions, stripes, imprisonments, torments, and cruel deaths. Yet this faith they zealously did propagate; and all these miseries they endured undismayed, nay, rejoicing. As one after another was put to a miserable death, the survivors only prosecuted their work with increased vigor and resolution. The annals of military warfare afford scarcely an example of the like heroic constancy, patience, and unflinching courage. They had every possible motive to review carefully the grounds of their faith, and the evidences of the great facts and truths which they asserted; and these motives were pressed upon their attention with the most melancholy and terrific frequency. It was therefore impossible that they could have persisted in affirming the truths they have narrated, had not Jesus actually risen from the dead, and had they not known this fact as certainly as they knew any other fact. If it were morally possible for them to have been deceived in this matter, every human motive operated to lead them to discover and avow their error. To have persisted in so gross a falsehood, after it was known to them, was not only to encounter, for life, all the evils which man could inflict, from without, but to endure also the pangs of inward and conscious guilt; with no hope of future peace, no testimony of a good conscience, no expectation of honor or esteem among men, no hope of happiness in this life, or in the world to come.
"Such conduct in the apostles would moreover have been utterly irreconcilable with the fact that they possessed the ordinary constitution of our common nature. Yet their lives do show them to have been men like all others of our race; swayed by the same motives, animated by the same hopes, affected by the same joys, subdued by the same sorrows, agitated by the same fears, and subject to the same passions, temptations, and infirmities, as ourselves. And their writings show them to have been men of vigorous understandings. If then their testimony was not true, there was no possible motive for its fabrication."

That opinion is even more astounding than it sounds and you should review it in it's entirety, as it is very famous and well scrutinized.

Lets move on. If Greenleaf is not the greatest scholar on evidence and testimony the next man probably is.

Wilbur Smith writes of a great legal authority of the last century. He refers to John Singleton Copley, better known as Lord Lyndhurst (1772-1863), recognized as one of the greatest legal minds in British history, the Solicitor-General of the British government in 1819, attorney-general of Great Britain in 1824, three times High Chancellor of England, and elected in 1846, High Steward of the University of Cambridge, thus holding in one lifetime the highest offices which a judge in Great Britain could ever have conferred upon him. When Chancellor Lyndhurst died, a document was found in his desk, among his private papers, giving an extended account of his own Christian faith, and in this precious, previously-unknown record, he wrote: "I know pretty well what evidence is; and I tell you, such evidence as that for the Resurrection has never broken down yet."

Lets try some historians. Among the best:

Professor Thomas Arnold, cited by Wilbur Smith, was for 14 years the famous headmaster of Rugby, author of a famous three-volume History of Rome, appointed to the char of Modern History at Oxford, and certainly a man well acquainted with the value of evidence in determining historical facts. This great scholar said:
"The evidence for our LORD's life and death and resurrection may be, and often has been, shown to be satisfactory; it is good according to the common rules for distinguishing good evidence from bad. Thousands and tens of thousands of persons have gone through it piece by piece, as carefully as every judge summing up on a most important cause. I have myself done it many times over, not to persuade others but to satisfy myself. I have been used for many years to study the histories of other times, and to examine and weigh the evidence of those who have written about them, and I know of no one fact in the history of mankind which is proved by better and fuller evidence of every sort, to the understanding of a fair inquirer, than the great sign which GOD hath given us that Christ died and rose again from the dead."

How about even a legendary literary scholar.

Brooke Foss Westcott (1825-1901), English scholar who was appointed regius professor at Cambridge in 1870, said: "Indeed, taking all the evidence together, it is not too much to say that there is no historic incident better or more variously supported than the resurrection of Christ. Nothing but the antecedent assumption that it must be false could have suggested the idea of deficiency in the proof of if."

Ok I am running out of room. Proclamations will no longer do, time to step it up and prove these brilliant scholars are wrong and I have hundreds more to supply in every possible relevant field you can imagine.
So good luck.
 

Harikrish

Active Member
Why does God only reveal himself to a select few who all end up dead or delusional? Why is God so obsessed with human sexuality and morality and obedience to his arbitrary code of conduct? We live in a sexually liberated and technology driven world that is more rewarding and abundant than all the promises in the Bible thanks to mans ingenuity. There isn't enough knowledge of science in the bible to pass a grade 6 science test. Without science and technology we would still be living in the dark ages waiting for Jesus's second coming. We still see the lasting effects of the delusional beliefs of a Jewish rabbi where people gather to worship a wooden cross.
 

1robin

Christian/Baptist
Thankyou for your reply.



Since, concerning physical properties you said "0,0,0" which i suppose should mean " I don't know".
Now that you agree about the physical properties of God (that we know nothing about it); what about its mathematical property?
(here I am quoting some text from my previous post)
I meant that God has zero physical properties. He has no mass, no volume, no length, width or anything that was asked. God is a spirit and has no physical properties. He can assume or animate physical entities but the physical entity is not properly God but a tool of his.

To count an object, you have to be sure that there is a mathematical property associated with the object which enables us to count those kind of objects. for example, we can count apples and grapes, but can we count space, water, etc; NO (these have uncountable property). we say little space, some water etc but not one water (one liter of water is different - it is the liter we count). Even there are things that cannot be included in any of the above categories. we have waves and alternating currents whose properties are explained with the help of complex numbers. We have electrons that exhibits wave like and particle like nature at the same time, can exist at two or more different places at the same time and so on.
What I am asking is when we say one God, How do we know that God has the mathematical property which enables us to count God. what i am saying isn't it more truthful or more elegant to say just "God" than "one God"
We can count entities even if they are composed of no physical properties. Numbers themselves are non physical and may be termed as abstract entities. Souls are routinely counted at least in older maritime circles. I won't devote any more time to this until I get a sense for the direction your headed. I will say that so far this is a very thoughtful idea that I however don't think is going to get you where you want to go.



So to say God exists one has to agree with this; an incredibly complex and intelligent and powerful thing (God) existed even before creation and it created the world as we know it today. So
Ok I am with you so far.
  1. a very complex God created the lesser complex universe ( God is even beyond our imagination than the known and unknown universe combined). After all, we have made theories that could predict something real in the universe, but nothing about God.
  1. There are all kinds of theories that deduce that an extremely God like being must exist. A very good one is the philosophical extrapolations that are derived from the cosmological argument and cause and effect.
a. A material explanation cannot be the cause of material reality.
b. A non intelligent explanation cannot cause intelligence.
c. A non astronomically powerful source cannot cause an astronomically powerful effect.

The list goes on but you get the drift.

a more intelligent God existed even before creation so that it could create the (lesser) intelligence in the whole universe.
You lost me here. Christianity posits a God of infinite intelligence that freely chose to create a universe and intelligent life (or possibly the initial conditions that lead to it). I did not understand the meaningfulness of suggesting the universe was a lesser intelligence.
a more powerful God existed even before creation so that so that it could create the (lesser powerful) universe.
Again I really don't get this. Are these challenges to something? Are they just points to consider. They all appear to be of the same type and the truth involved in one would apply to the rest. I really have no idea what your asking or how to reply. I see no conflict in any of these or impediment of any kind.

or did it all started this way; simple beginning; getting more and more complex, more and more intelligent etc through evolution?
best regards.
I will assume your just asking what I think about these possibilities and answer accordingly. I think the lines of evidence, integrity of the biblical claims, philosophical tests for validity,. and some just plain common sense, etc.. all argue in favor of all three of your previous possibilities. I think there are grave problems with your last possibility above. I can go really in depth on this but for now I will give a few reasons why I think this last scenario is unlikely.

Saying a simple beginning is not a complete explanation and it has dreadful problems. To say it started necessitates a previous cause for that starting which you do allow for in that last scenario. Cosmology strongly says it started a finite time ago and therefore needs a cause to get started. The presence of information requires intelligence, saying the universe grew more complex may not defy thermodynamics (perhaps it does) but it does suggest almost a miraculous defiance of thermodynamics, the universal apprehension of an objective moral realm suggest an objective moral law that requires a transcendent source. That at least gets the ball rolling.

I hope I have understood you correctly and anticipate a thoughtful response.
 
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