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Why pray?

Windwalker

Veteran Member
Premium Member
That's a good question. On first blush, I would say "yes." It is possible that my personal unconscious (my "shadow self" if you will) can overpower my conscious will. (It definitely has happened to me before. I am susceptible to "road rage.")
That's one way we can, yes. The shadow is some aspect of ourselves we see as undesirable that we have denied, repressed, or otherwise disowned rather than make peace with and integrate in healthy ways into ourselves. It can influence us at the subconscious level. Plus there are other areas in our lives as well that works against our own better judgments, such as a lack of discipline, a lack of faith in ourselves, critical self-judgments, and all manner of things which we give into which work against us that aren't operating at the subconscious level. As the Apostle Paul cried, 'That which I would do, that thing I do not; that which I would not do, that thing I do! Oh wretched man that I am, who shall save me?'

So that kind of comes to your questions of can we go against God's will, and then 'why pray'. You can understand God in a way as your own denied Self. In a sort of transcendent, vertical direction, God is the unrealized, unrecognized, unaccepted divine aspect of our own being, which like the shadow is a part of ourselves for whatever reason we feel disposed to disown. But instead of being seen as darkness in us we wish to hide away from out of fear it will devour and destroy us (which will appear as the devil to us), it is the other end of the spectrum which is a Light in ourselves we cannot bear to look into for fear it will consume us. On the one hand you have a denial of our self, and the other a denial of the Self. And there we live in the middle disowning the darkness and disowning the Light, trying to keep from drowning as we fight against the currents of the stream we spend our lives in mastering staying alive by treading water, barely keeping our noses above the surface to breath in air. Is it any wonder the great traditions see clinging the source of suffering?

So yes, we go against God's will anytime we act within our 'lower' self with disregard to the 'higher', or the divine Self within. We 'sin' against God as we act in denial of that Light in ourselves. We fall short of that mark, as it were, of that Light in ourselves. Like learning how to integrate the shadow through a practice of self-acceptance, the result of which leads to a healthy mind and body in our daily lives, we also learn to accept the Light through a practice of Self-acceptance as it were, getting to know "God" and integrating that Light into our being in a path of transformation. We overcome the world, so to speak, by accepting the Self into the self. We now don't merely tread water in that stream barely keeping our noses above the surface in order to breathe living giving air, we stand up in it, walk around, feeling that air on our whole bodies as we walk across its surface. We are 'in the world, but not of the world' would be another metaphoric way to express this.

So why pray? At its most basic it is 'looking upward'. It is looking to God, or that Light "above" as it were. It points the mind and body and spirit to what is seen as outside itself presently, hopefully opening up the inner heart of the person to that Light than shines within. There are obviously various stages of this practice, where at its most fundamental is approached like a child asking his parent for a gift. The child is obviously unaware of any of the deeper realities in himself yet, as they have yet to develop as he matures. God is envisioned as a magical being outside himself he must interact with in order to have good things come to him in his life. But as the child matures into an adult he begins to see what God was to him 'outside' himself, actually is and always has been present within himself. God doesn't live in the sky, like Santa at the North Pole, but has never been anywhere but ever-within, fully, always, already present, nearer than our own breath.

At this point, prayer takes on the flavor of communion of spirit with Spirit. It is no longer asking for a gift from above, but rather a receiving and realization of Spirit. It becomes an immersion in God and an exchange of Light, from above and from within. In this practice it opens us to God, both within and without. It is like in psychotherapy where one learns to integrate the shadow. In meditation, in this sort of contemplative prayer one learns to integrate the Divine, which like the shadow we deny as our true Self, our true Identity. Prayer in this sense is coming to know your Self. You experience God as nearer to you than your breath, to such a point as you become absolutely One with this in yourself. You awaken to your Self. My breath is God's breath. God's breath is my breath.

So simply put, prayer is an act of reaching for the Light, and it takes on many stages of practice and flavors depending on where someone is starting from on their path of a spiritual awakening. Or it can be nothing but a simply social ritual, with no actual seeking, that too. ;)
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
No, of course not. Read my earlier reply to another person on this subject. Prayer, to me, is talking to God and not asking for things.

Is the talk mono-directional? Or does He answer back in some audible or telepatical/spiritual form?

In case of the latter, can you ask Him if gay marriage is ok?

Ciao

- viole
 

muhammad_isa

Veteran Member
So that kind of comes to your questions of can we go against God's will, and then 'why pray'. You can understand God in a way as your own denied Self. In a sort of transcendent, vertical direction, God is the unrealized, unrecognized, unaccepted divine aspect of our own being, which like the shadow is a part of ourselves for whatever reason we feel disposed to disown. But instead of being seen as darkness in us we wish to hide away from out of fear it will devour and destroy us (which will appear as the devil to us), it is the other end of the spectrum which is a Light in ourselves we cannot bear to look into for fear it will consume us. On the one hand you have a denial of our self, and the other a denial of the Self. And there we live in the middle disowning the darkness and disowning the Light, trying to keep from drowning as we fight against the currents of the stream we spend our lives in mastering staying alive by treading water, barely keeping our noses above the surface to breath in air. Is it any wonder the great traditions see clinging the source of suffering?
...
So simply put, prayer is an act of reaching for the Light, and it takes on many stages of practice and flavors depending on where someone is starting from on their path of a spiritual awakening. Or it can be nothing but a simply social ritual, with no actual seeking, that too. ;)

Good post .. very deep :)

I shan't ask "which religion God is", because I need a religion designed for mankind..
..but I know what you mean ;)
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
Is the talk mono-directional? Or does He answer back in some audible or telepatical/spiritual form?

In case of the latter, can you ask Him if gay marriage is ok?

Ciao

- viole
Marriage is a legal thing nowadays, so I wouldn't bother asking God about it. There is a difference, in my way of thinking between a religious marriage and a legal marriage. (someone who is not religious would only worry about the legal marriage, don't you think).

I don't get audible answers, no; if I did, I would check myself in at the local hospital. The way I get answers varies. I spoke to a person yesterday who said she was cured of cancer after what she believes was from prayer of many people.
 

Whiterain

Get me off of this planet
I usually don't, only in thanks or gratitude, I'd rather not pester the Lord with my penile needs.

My life is in shambles, I'm a cripple, thanks for the cool sunshine Lord Almighty.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
Is the talk mono-directional? Or does He answer back in some audible or telepatical/spiritual form?

In case of the latter, can you ask Him if gay marriage is ok?

Ciao

- viole
It is bi-directional. He said "I love the homosexual, heterosexual, bisexuals, and any other type man creates for I have sent my son for all people. Once you let me in your life, I will show you the best way to live your life for without me you will never reach what I want for you". I believe He also said, "Stop the pointing of the finger and just concentrate on letting me clean up your own personal life. Remember, when you take out the log in your eyes you can see better the splinter in the other persons eye and you can help him better." ;)

Monto amore.
 

Kenny

Face to face with my Father
Premium Member
I usually don't, only in thanks or gratitude, I'd rather not pester the Lord with my penile needs.

My life is in shambles, I'm a cripple, thanks for the cool sunshine Lord Almighty.
No... that would be from the thief and not from God. (John 10:10)
 

Whiterain

Get me off of this planet
No... that would be from the thief and not from God. (John 10:10)

Nice, my petty crimes are trifling thrills, I intend no real wrong doing on others. At least we have established law now, law is about just in the first world now.

The Judicial system needs work, get those sadists and real crooks out of there. There are evil women in court. Evil. Pure evil.
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
It is bi-directional. He said "I love the homosexual, heterosexual, bisexuals, and any other type man creates for I have sent my son for all people. Once you let me in your life, I will show you the best way to live your life for without me you will never reach what I want for you". I believe He also said, "Stop the pointing of the finger and just concentrate on letting me clean up your own personal life. Remember, when you take out the log in your eyes you can see better the splinter in the other persons eye and you can help him better." ;)

Monto amore.

This is beautiful.

The only problem is that my other Christian friends also claims that it is a bi-directional discussion. And he claims that God told him hat gay marriage leads to eternal damnation.

So, who should I believe?

Ciao

- viole
 

viole

Ontological Naturalist
Premium Member
Marriage is a legal thing nowadays, so I wouldn't bother asking God about it. There is a difference, in my way of thinking between a religious marriage and a legal marriage. (someone who is not religious would only worry about the legal marriage, don't you think).

Not in Sweden. Our official Lutheran church is happy to marry gays.

For the non-religious, this is clearly a non issue. But what about the religious ones? Or when one of the two is religious and would like to marry in a church? Do you think they can have a religious blessing?

I don't get audible answers, no; if I did, I would check myself in at the local hospital. The way I get answers varies.

You would check yourself in at the local hospital? I wonder why. What precludes God from talking to you in return? If I were God, I would do it. I would at least say: Daughter, I am God, i know everything. Including your needs, problems and My own will. So, please stop telling me the obvious :)

I actually have a materialistic theory why people pray. I think there is some research on the subject. When you think loud, even if nobody is listening, you have a slightly higher chance to solve your problems, or, at least feel some comfort just by laying them out in words. A sort of discharge to the outside world together with the slow down and increased focus that comes by speaking out and, possibly, simultaneous involvement of other parts of the brain. I do it sometimes with difficult math problems and it really seems to help. My kids think I am crazy, but that is ok.

I spoke to a person yesterday who said she was cured of cancer after what she believes was from prayer of many people.

Is that a cumulative thing? The more they pray, the higher the chance of being cured? Apart from the fact that I do not see why a Christian is so attached to this evil world, that would contradict the idea that God does not change His will upon request.


Ciao

- viole
 
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ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
Not in Sweden. Our official Lutheran church is happy to marry gays.

For the non-religious, this is clearly a non issue. But what about the religious ones? Or when one of the two is religious and would like to marry in a church? Do you think they can have a religious blessing?



You would check yourself in at the local hospital? I wonder why. What precludes God from talking to you in return? If I were God, I would do it. I would at least say: Daughter, I am God, i know everything. Including your needs, problems and My own will. So, please stop telling me the obvious :)

I actually have a materialistic theory why people pray. I think there is some research on the subject. When you think loud, even if nobody is listening, you have a slightly higher chance to solve your problems, or, at least feel some comfort just by laying them out in words. A sort of discharge to the outside world together with the slow down and increased focus that comes by speaking out and, possibly, simultaneous involvement of other parts of the brain. I do it sometimes with difficult math problems and it really seems to help. My kids think I am crazy, but that is ok.



Is that a cumulative thing? The more they pray, the higher the chance of being cured? Apart from the fact that I do not see why a Christian is so attached to this evil world, that would contradict the idea that God does not change His will upon request.


Ciao

- viole
Honestly, I don't discuss gay marriage and I don't want to. This was about prayer and that is all I want to speak about. I am not going to speak about any kind of marriage whatsoever.

About being cured, I wouldn't know. I've heard people say they were cured before and that is about the only response I can give you since I've never been cured of anything and I can't speak for others. As I keep saying, prayer is for us: The way I see it, God wants to hear from us. When I pray for illness, I don't necessarily pray for a cure but for God to be with the person that's ill, pray for the family of the ill/dying person, and all that. Praying makes me feel better. I do believe that God knows what we need, knows what we want; and I keep repeating that we need to acknowledge it ourselves (we who pray, that is).
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Praying makes me feel better.
... and there's the problem.

I understand how it can be frustrating to feel powerless in a difficult situation, but I see great danger in making ourselves feel better, since our discomfort is what motivates us to action. For instance, a doctor who is at peace with cancer is a doctor who feels no urge to treat cancer.

Prayer satisfies our urge to act without doing anything effective. This is why I tend to see prayer like junk food: it satisfies the urge to eat without actually providing nutrition.
 

ChristineES

Tiggerism
Premium Member
... and there's the problem.

I understand how it can be frustrating to feel powerless in a difficult situation, but I see great danger in making ourselves feel better, since our discomfort is what motivates us to action. For instance, a doctor who is at peace with cancer is a doctor who feels no urge to treat cancer.

Prayer satisfies our urge to act without doing anything effective. This is why I tend to see prayer like junk food: it satisfies the urge to eat without actually providing nutrition.
Yet it does make a difference, I've seen it make a difference. Maybe to you it seems like nothingness, but it does not feel that way to we who believe in God. I've had prayers answered, and others have had prayers answered, as well.
 

9-10ths_Penguin

1/10 Subway Stalinist
Premium Member
Yet it does make a difference, I've seen it make a difference. Maybe to you it seems like nothingness, but it does not feel that way to we who believe in God. I've had prayers answered, and others have had prayers answered, as well.
If all you're praying for are vague things like that "God be with" someone, how could you ever know that your prayer has been answered? How do you tell the difference between an answered prayer and an unanswered prayer?
 
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