Why religious persuaders scare me

[BlackBear94]

I understand that all of you nice people out there who truly believe that your religious views are right have a deep desire to draw others towards your side of the religious spectrum, but i implore you, please don't try to convert others.

The reason life is so vibrant is because there is an equal and opposite (or simply different) concept for every existing thing or idea. Salty to sweet, cold to warm, pleasure to pain, pious to disenchanted.

If we all knew the answer to "does god exist?", regardless of whether he does or not the world would be a very dark place just for knowing.

In both scenarios people would find life pointless, either because there is nothing after it to judge them and reward them or because the afterlife is a sure thing and then life becomes just a short summer job of existing. (I'm fairly certain that's why the dark ages were so dark)

Reply if you have something to add or just outright disagree

 

[shonghu]

Why you not believe God exists?

 

[BlackBear94]

Oh no i do. Just not for any of the traditional reasons. More of a "process of elimination" kind of thing

 

[Gharib]

In both scenarios people would find life pointless, either because there is nothing after it to judge them and reward them or because the afterlife is a sure thing and then life becomes just a short summer job of existing. (I'm fairly certain that's why the dark ages were so dark)

I disagree with that statement. Knowing that there is an afterlife is what will lead people to be better in conduct and behavior in order to please God and attain Paradise. The world would be a much better place and way better than it is now. The history of Islam testifies to this.

As for the other scenario, it will lead to greed and selfishness, every one will want the most of everything and will try and take it by any means possible, even if it costs innocent lives. The history of a secular democratic nation like the US testifies to this.

 

[BlackBear94]

Well let me ask you something. Do you think crime and hate would decrease dramatically if everyone knew god existed?

 

[Gharib]

Well let me ask you something. Do you think crime and hate would decrease dramatically if everyone knew god existed?

That depends on many other things, but crime and hate would decrease dramatically, if not completely. During the prophetic lifetime of 23 years of Prophet Muhammed peace be upon him, there hardly ever were any crimes.

Take any first world country suburb of the same amount of population and see how the crime rates compare. I can tell you that the amount of crimes committed in those 23 years would be reached by a 'modern and civilized' suburb within months.

 

[BlackBear94]

Well then if hate and crime were gone completely then life wouldn't be that different from the afterlife would it? If that is a valid assumption then life by definition would be pointless.

 

[BlackBear94]

So basically if God were to show himself to the everyone the purpose of life would be destroyed. And by "dark ages being so dark" i meant no economical, political, or technological growth in this life because everyone was preparing for the next life.

 

[Gharib]

Well then if hate and crime were gone completely then life wouldn't be that different from the afterlife would it? If that is a valid assumption then life by definition would be pointless.

There would still be crimes, but not as prevalent as they are now. The majority of the population believes in God, however, crimes are still very common.

So we go back to what I said, that it depends on many other things, not just the belief that there is God. Do you believe that none from among Muslims, Christians, Jews, Hindus etc who believe in God don't commit crimes?

 

[Gharib]

So basically if God were to show himself to the everyone the purpose of life would be destroyed.

Yes that is true. We are meant to believe only through the sings and miracles that God sends to us without having actually seen God.

And by "dark ages being so dark" i meant no economical, political, or technological growth in this life because everyone was preparing for the next life.

But what we have today is mostly traced back to the history of Islam, all these advancements and discoveries were brought to light by Muslim scholars, scientists, researchers etc. They were all people of faith.

 

[Caladan]

I disagree with that statement. Knowing that there is an afterlife is what will lead people to be better in conduct and behavior in order to please God and attain Paradise. The world would be a much better place and way better than it is now. The history of Islam testifies to this.

As for the other scenario, it will lead to greed and selfishness, every one will want the most of everything and will try and take it by any means possible, even if it costs innocent lives. The history of a secular democratic nation like the US testifies to this.

Sometimes I wonder if you actually believe what you are posting.

 

[Gharib]

Sometimes I wonder if you actually believe what you are posting.

I know you don't, that's the main thing right?

 

[BlackBear94]

I'm not questioning anyone here but a little link to a legitamit webpage will give your facts alot more credability.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

I'm not questioning anyone here but a little link to a legitamit webpage will give your facts alot more credability.

OK.

 

[Falvlun]

I understand that all of you nice people out there who truly believe that your religious views are right have a deep desire to draw others towards your side of the religious spectrum, but i implore you, please don't try to convert others.

The reason life is so vibrant is because there is an equal and opposite (or simply different) concept for every existing thing or idea. Salty to sweet, cold to warm, pleasure to pain, pious to disenchanted.

I disagree. I think the world would be a much more vibrant place if the belief that some people are worth more than others (like men over women, or some races over others) would become extinct.

Also, that brings up a moral issue: Is it moral to support ignorance or suffering caused by unjust, restrictive beliefs just so your life is enriched by having competing beliefs in existence?

If we all knew the answer to "does god exist?", regardless of whether he does or not the world would be a very dark place just for knowing.

Is the world a darker place for knowing that dogs exist? Is it a darker place for understanding what gravity is, or the speed of light? Of course it's not. I don't see why having an answer to the god question would cause any more darkening than those.

In both scenarios people would find life pointless, either because there is nothing after it to judge them and reward them or because the afterlife is a sure thing and then life becomes just a short summer job of existing. (I'm fairly certain that's why the dark ages were so dark)

But people make their decisions now anyway. They choose to believe that an afterlife exists, and they choose to believe that an afterlife doesn't exist. The world hasn't devolved into chaos even though people already think they know these answers.

I don't believe in an afterlife, but I don't feel my life is pointless. I would savor every moment, and try to make other people's moments as best as possible too.

The people I know who do believe in an afterlife feel that this life provides context for that next life. They are meant to be learning something in this one, so they shouldn't waste it either.

 

[Nakosis]

I understand that all of you nice people out there who truly believe that your religious views are right have a deep desire to draw others towards your side of the religious spectrum, but i implore you, please don't try to convert others.

I don't mind being tested. In fact I prefer it. I'm happy to let someone else try to convert me. I'll happily listen to a rational argument. People try to convert me to their way of thinking, I try to convert them.

People are constantly going to try to persuade you into doing something or thinking a certain way. It's good practice I think learn to critically evaluate another's argument.

A lot of tricks people use to coerce the thinking of others. Better to learn to guard against it IMO.

 

[Quintessence]

The reason life is so vibrant is because there is an equal and opposite (or simply different) concept for every existing thing or idea.

Including opposition to what you're posting. Is not the preacher part of the spice of life?

I don't want the religious preachers to go away. I like them. They're interesting to listen to.

 

[Trey of Diamonds]

I understand that all of you nice people out there who truly believe that your religious views are right have a deep desire to draw others towards your side of the religious spectrum, but i implore you, please don't try to convert others.

No fear of that around here.

The reason life is so vibrant is because there is an equal and opposite (or simply different) concept for every existing thing or idea. Salty to sweet, cold to warm, pleasure to pain, pious to disenchanted.

Very Taoist, I like it.

If we all knew the answer to "does god exist?", regardless of whether he does or not the world would be a very dark place just for knowing.

Maybe, interesting concept.

In both scenarios people would find life pointless, either because there is nothing after it to judge them and reward them or because the afterlife is a sure thing and then life becomes just a short summer job of existing. (I'm fairly certain that's why the dark ages were so dark)

I disagree. People find life pointless or wonderous regardless of their environment.

Reply if you have something to add or just outright disagree

I often have something to add but it isn't always of any value unless you count entertainment and even that is questionable according to my wife.

 

[Kathryn]

I understand that all of you nice people out there who truly believe that your religious views are right have a deep desire to draw others towards your side of the religious spectrum, but i implore you, please don't try to convert others.

The reason life is so vibrant is because there is an equal and opposite (or simply different) concept for every existing thing or idea. Salty to sweet, cold to warm, pleasure to pain, pious to disenchanted.

If we all knew the answer to "does god exist?", regardless of whether he does or not the world would be a very dark place just for knowing.

In both scenarios people would find life pointless, either because there is nothing after it to judge them and reward them or because the afterlife is a sure thing and then life becomes just a short summer job of existing. (I'm fairly certain that's why the dark ages were so dark)

Reply if you have something to add or just outright disagree

I have something to add.

Here is one of my favorite quotes - in fact, it's one of my few life mottos:

"Preach the Gospel always. When necessary, use words." (commonly attributed to St Francis of Assisi, but the origins of the quote are unclear)

I believe we have to earn the right to counsel others. In other words, if they don't ask for advice, or I'm not in an authoritarian position where it's my job to give them advice (ie, a parent or a boss), or unless they display an interest or desire to hear advice when it's offered, I don't give it.

I believe the most powerful testimony we can give for our faith and our personal beliefs about doctrine is in our actions, not our words.

On this forum, we are limited to words, but we can often tell a lot about a person's life and values by how they word their responses.

 

[BlackBear94]

Including opposition to what you're posting. Is not the preacher part of the spice of life?

I don't want the religious preachers to go away. I like them. They're interesting to listen to.

Feel free to challenge any statement I ever make, I'd actually be disappointed if you didn't. But I will not change my stance on this. When one of you think of someone trying to convert you, you probably envision a civil old person trying to make the case for their religion's merit. But when i think of it i remember seeing everyday kind of people turn their good will religious beliefs into angry hateful condemnations of "non believers".