Why Should Bestiality Be Against The Law?

[McBell]

Here is a source for you both to get the party going then.

There is a table on this page listing a whole range of diseases that can be contracted from animals.


Zoophilia and health - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

What does that have to do with your claim:

As for points, I did mention AIDS some time back - no response from you on that one.

I know the general theory is it came from monkeys and a polio vaccine in The Congo some time around 1950 but there are also theories that it existed some time before that and came through bushmen and monkeys having amorous relations.

Since you seem a bit confused, I am asking for your source that AIDS existed some time before 1950 and came from bushmen screwing monkeys.

 

[nnmartin]

the first link was just to get the action going as stated - should keep Tiberius quiet for a while at least.

I'll have a dig around and get back to you later on the bushmen theory.

Regards.

 

[McBell]

I'll have a dig around and get back to you later on the bushmen theory.

Fair enough.

 

[Tiberius]

Not just dogs. Animals who unexpectedly injure people, often with playful intent, don't understand the effects of their actions. I don't know statistics, but I'd guess people are far less prone to sudden, unexpected violence where there hasn't been a violent history.

True, but I'd say that this would be a pretty weak reason to make something illegal.

Interesting. I'd still guess far more people are allergic to animals than to other people - whether it's semen or dander. Like I've said twice, objections to bestiality were more of a cumulative list of factors than one or two.

Agreed, but most people allergic to dogs aren't going to be inclined to have sex with them.

How can it give consent?

if you really think this then all sex toys must be banned.

condoms would also have to be banned as they are surely on the front line.

Perhaps you need to read THIS...

Bestiality is more than just 'icky' - it's depravity pure and simple.

In other words, it's REALLY icky. Got it.

Depravity leads to more depravity and warped minds.

People once said the same things about interracial marriages.

If it were legal someone would no doubt campaign to have it incorporated into sex education class at school.

Yeah, like how all kids these days are forced to take lessons in sadomasochism.

do you think that would be a good idea?

I think it would be a good idea if you found an argument other than the "slippery slope" argument.

I am sure when you decided to start off in your defence of bestiality you expected to take some flak - I imagine you can handle it.

I can handle it, yes, and if you want to make yourself look foolish by reducing yourself to using such weak arguyments, go right ahead. You're only hurting yourself.

As for points, I did mention AIDS some time back - no response from you on that one.

No, I did see it.

I know the general theory is it came from monkeys and a polio vaccine in The Congo some time around 1950 but there are also theories that it existed some time before that and came through bushmen and monkeys having amorous relations.

Have you though about that idea?

Like mestemia said, source please? Please provide something that shows that AIDS originally found its way into humans after people had sex with animals.

And even if it did (which I am not discounting), you really think that we should make something illegal if it has the possibility of harming us? How many things would we have to make illegal if we take that attitude.

In any case, the argument that humans can get diseases from animals and therefore shouldn't have sex with them is another weak one. How many of those diseases are contagious ONLY from sexual intercourse with them? Only three out of the twelve you listed there are sexually transmitted between animals and Humans. And what of all the STDs that humans can transmit to each other? If we are to say that sex with animals should be banned on the grounds that it can cause infection, shouldn't we say the same about sex between two Humans? Oh, that's different? How so? Because Humans can get tested and treated? So can animals. A woman can take her dog to the vet to get it tested and treated for any diseases it could transmit to her. In any case, if we are dealing with someone who wants to have sex with a pet, then it isn't all that likely that the pet is going to have these diseases. it's not like the dog is going to go out and start sleeping around, is it?

Face it, nnmartin. You are against bestiality because you think it's icky. And that's fine. No one is saying you have to think it's a good idea. We're just saying that you can't claim something should be illegal just because you don't like the idea of it.

Now, if you could show that it harms the animal or person involved, then by all means. But you have failed so far to do that.

 

[InformedIgnorance]

Now, if you could show that it harms the animal or person involved, then by all means. But you have failed so far to do that.

Why would it matter if it hurts the person involved if they are a willing participant?

The argument for the animal's sake is far more valid than any argument that could be made about the person (provided they are willing participants)

 

[Skwim]

Why would it matter if it hurts the person involved if they are a willing participant?

Our drug laws have established the fact that such an argument is irrelevant.

 

[Tiberius]

Why would it matter if it hurts the person involved if they are a willing participant?

The argument for the animal's sake is far more valid than any argument that could be made about the person (provided they are willing participants)

True, but you gotta admit that it's good advice

 

[Shadow Wolf]

Here is a source for you both to get the party going then.

There is a table on this page listing a whole range of diseases that can be contracted from animals.


Zoophilia and health - Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia

Ok? You can get a number of diseases having non-sexual contact with animals, just like people. You can also get a list of pretty nasty infections from having sex with other people. You can also potentially get a rare disease that will eat away at your flesh just by getting a scrape on your arm. Or inhale a similar disease into your sinuses.

This thread is HILARIOUS! Animals do consent to sex, unless that is they are being over powered and essentially what we would call raped. There are some other animals that have sex for pleasure, but even the ones that don't won't do it if they don't want to. I also doubt many zoophiliacs coerce or harm there partner. You also will find many cases of inter-species sex in nature. As for it being gross, it's very likely you do something someone else considers gross. Kissing is a good example. We consider it a very passionate, fun, and awesome thing to do, but alot of people see it as being very disgusting to eat each others spit.

 

[nnmartin]

People once said the same things about interracial marriages.

Hardly the same thing.

In the past people were more primitive socially and there was not much in the way of multiculturalism like today. No doubt more religious dogma around in the past making people think inter-racial marriages were a bad thing. Cultural change has made people more accepting of this now though.

However, man with animal will never change - nothing to do with culture.
If anything , as societies become more advanced this kind of practice is likely to become more reviled over time.

And even if it did (which I am not discounting), you really think that we should make something illegal if it has the possibility of harming us? How many things would we have to make illegal if we take that attitude.

Many things that harm us are illegal - it makes sense to judge them individually and linkage is hardly appropriate here.

In any case, the argument that humans can get diseases from animals and therefore shouldn't have sex with them is another weak one. How many of those diseases are contagious ONLY from sexual intercourse with them? Only three out of the twelve you listed there are sexually transmitted between animals and Humans

A good enough reason to ban bestiality then.

.

And what of all the STDs that humans can transmit to each other? If we are to say that sex with animals should be banned on the grounds that it can cause infection, shouldn't we say the same about sex between two Humans?

No, because sex between humans is a natural act that expresses love and allows for reproduction.

it's not like the dog is going to go out and start sleeping around, is it?

Have you ever seen how dogs behave sexually - I think you are seriously mistaken there!

 

[nnmartin]

Ok? You can get a number of diseases having non-sexual contact with animals, just like people. You can also get a list of pretty nasty infections from having sex with other people. You can also potentially get a rare disease that will eat away at your flesh just by getting a scrape on your arm. Or inhale a similar disease into your sinuses.

so is that your justification for the legalisation of bestiality then?

As for it being gross, it's very likely you do something someone else considers gross. Kissing is a good example. We consider it a very passionate, fun, and awesome thing to do, but alot of people see it as being very disgusting to eat each others spit.

There any point whatsoever in trying to compare kissing to bestiality.

Two completely different things.

Bestiality is for perverts, kissing is not.


(from Wikipedia)

Sexual Perversions Definition

Under Paraphilia NOS, the DSM mentions telephone scatalogia (obscene phone calls), necrophilia (corpses), partialism (exclusive focus on one part of the body), zoophilia (animals), coprophilia (feces), klismaphilia (enemas), urophilia (urine), emetophilia (vomit). The DSM's Paraphilia NOS is equivalent to the ICD-9's Sexual Disorder NOS.

 

[nnmartin]

here's another: - from online medical dictionary:

Sexual Perversions Definition

Sexual perversions are conditions in which sexual excitement or orgasm is associated with acts or imagery that are considered unusual within the culture. To avoid problems associated with the stigmatization of labels, the neutral term paraphilia, derived from Greek roots meaning "alongside of" and "love," is used to describe what used to be called sexual perversions. A paraphilia is a condition in which a person's sexual arousal and gratification depend on a fantasy theme of an unusual situation or object that becomes the principal focus of sexual behavior.

 

[Tiberius]

Hardly the same thing.

In the past people were more primitive socially and there was not much in the way of multiculturalism like today. No doubt more religious dogma around in the past making people think inter-racial marriages were a bad thing. Cultural change has made people more accepting of this now though.

However, man with animal will never change - nothing to do with culture.
If anything , as societies become more advanced this kind of practice is likely to become more reviled over time.

lol, you got a source for this?

Many things that harm us are illegal - it makes sense to judge them individually and linkage is hardly appropriate here.

And there are many things that harm us that AREN'T illegal.

A good enough reason to ban bestiality then.

Not really. Sex between Humans presents far more risk of infection.

.No, because sex between humans is a natural act that expresses love and allows for reproduction.

Expresses love? So if a person loves their pet dog very much, that doesn't count?

And don't give me that reproduction crap. Ever hear of condoms? There are lots of ways to avoid reproducing when you have sex with a person. We don't generally have sex for procreation, we have sex for fun.

Have you ever seen how dogs behave sexually - I think you are seriously mistaken there!

So what, you think people with pet dogs let their dogs roam free around the neighbourhood? Geez, I sure hope you don't have a pet dog if you treat it like that!

so is that your justification for the legalisation of bestiality then?

I don't think so. But it does show that one of your justifications for prohibiting it is a weak one.

There any point whatsoever in trying to compare kissing to bestiality.

Two completely different things.

Bestiality is for perverts, kissing is not.

Here you go again with your circular logic. Bestiality is a perversion, so it should be banned. If it's banned, it's a perversion. Don't you get dizzy doing that?

(from Wikipedia)

Sexual Perversions Definition

Under Paraphilia NOS, the DSM mentions telephone scatalogia (obscene phone calls), necrophilia (corpses), partialism (exclusive focus on one part of the body), zoophilia (animals), coprophilia (feces), klismaphilia (enemas), urophilia (urine), emetophilia (vomit). The DSM's Paraphilia NOS is equivalent to the ICD-9's Sexual Disorder NOS.

lol, so a man who is attracted to breasts is a pervert then?

Someone who is only attracted to blonde women has a perversion?

Having a foot fetish should be illegal?

here's another: - from online medical dictionary:

Sexual Perversions Definition

Sexual perversions are conditions in which sexual excitement or orgasm is associated with acts or imagery that are considered unusual within the culture. To avoid problems associated with the stigmatization of labels, the neutral term paraphilia, derived from Greek roots meaning "alongside of" and "love," is used to describe what used to be called sexual perversions. A paraphilia is a condition in which a person's sexual arousal and gratification depend on a fantasy theme of an unusual situation or object that becomes the principal focus of sexual behavior.

Once again, you think it should be banned just because it is unusual?

 

[nnmartin]

And there are many things that harm us that AREN'T illegal.

How about giving some examples then and we'll see how they match up.

Expresses love? So if a person loves their pet dog very much, that doesn't count?

No, it's not the same.

We may love our pets but that doesn't mean having sex with them is in any way normal. The complete opposite in fact. Anyone wanting to have intercourse with their dog needs to see a psychiatrist.

Bestiality is a complete abomination - their is no justification with it either on a genetic basis - you cannot argue that it is a natural urge.

It's all in the mind - one with some serious issues.

There is no place for this kind of behaviour in civilised society and other than debating for the sake of it I suspect you also feel the same way.

Here you go again with your circular logic. Bestiality is a perversion, so it should be banned. If it's banned, it's a perversion. Don't you get dizzy doing that?

It's a perversion whether banned or not.

Once again, you think it should be banned just because it is unusual?

No, it should be banned because it's depraved and constitutes a serious and unnecesary health risk.

 

[Reverend Rick]

So much for debunking the slippery slope arguement.

 

[Tiberius]

How about giving some examples then and we'll see how they match up.

Smocking is legal. In 2003, smoking causes 15,511 smoking related deaths in Australia. (Source)

More deaths are caused each year You wanna tell me that any deaths or injuries caused by bestiality is gonna come close to that? And smoking's legal, isn't it?

No, it's not the same.

Oh, here we go again.

We may love our pets but that doesn't mean having sex with them is in any way normal. The complete opposite in fact. Anyone wanting to have intercourse with their dog needs to see a psychiatrist.

Once again your ridiculous circular logic.

You state that it's wrong in order to show that it's wrong.

Bestiality is a complete abomination - their is no justification with it either on a genetic basis - you cannot argue that it is a natural urge.

Then why do animals do it too? Or are animals given to unnatural urges?

It's all in the mind - one with some serious issues.

Circular logic...

There is no place for this kind of behaviour in civilised society and other than debating for the sake of it I suspect you also feel the same way.

And now you are projecting your feelings on to me!

It's a perversion whether banned or not.

No one's asking your to do it.

No, it should be banned because it's depraved and constitutes a serious and unnecesary health risk.

Depraved? What about all those weird fetishes that some people have? Are they depraved as well? What about Menophilia, the fetish of being aroused by menstruation? How many religious texts say that a woman is unclean during her period? Does that mean a man who is happy to have sex with a woman while she has her period is a pervert? What about someone with a foot fetish? Are these all perverted too?

And a health risk? You keep saying that, but you have yet to actually show it. Come on, show me your source that proves that bestiality has an unacceptably high rate of injury!

 

[nnmartin]

Smocking is legal. In 2003, smoking causes 15,511 smoking related deaths in Australia. (Source)

More deaths are caused each year You wanna tell me that any deaths or injuries caused by bestiality is gonna come close to that? And smoking's legal, isn't it?

Smoking is non-sexual so is not the same.

Bestiality is against the order of nature, smoking is not.

Smoking fits in with mans need for mild stimulation.

Bestiality fits in with someone who cannot distinguish between mild stimulation and perversion.

Then why do animals do it too? Or are animals given to unnatural urges?

Because they are animals.

And now you are projecting your feelings on to me!

You have already stated that you are not interested in bestiality yourself yet are still arguing in its defence.

A civil liberties issue then I suppose?

No one's asking your to do it.

That is beside the point.
No-one is asking me to jump off a bridge either - it would still be a wrong move.

Depraved? What about all those weird fetishes that some people have? Are they depraved as well? What about Menophilia, the fetish of being aroused by menstruation?

There are different levels of depravity.

Bestiality is amongst those of the highest level and is clearly wrong.

While some things may be more or less depraved than bestiality it doesn't alter the fact that this act has no genuine place amongst civilised people.

And a health risk? You keep saying that, but you have yet to actually show it. Come on, show me your source that proves that bestiality has an unacceptably high rate of injury!

I have already given you a link to a wikipedia site that had a table of diseases related to bestiality.

 

[Tiberius]

Smoking is non-sexual so is not the same.

So what?

Bestiality is against the order of nature, smoking is not.

Unsupported claim.

Besides, I don't see many birds smoking. Given that cigarettes need to be MANUFACTURED, I think it certainly is against the order of nature! That and the whole cancer thing.

Smoking fits in with mans need for mild stimulation.

So does sex.

Bestiality fits in with someone who cannot distinguish between mild stimulation and perversion.

You claim it is a perversion to show it is a perversion. Circular logic.

WHY is it a perversion? Give me something MORE than your opinion okay? So no "Oh, it goes against nature" or anything like that, because that is just your opinion.

Because they are animals.

So are Humans. Members of the great ape family.

You have already stated that you are not interested in bestiality yourself yet are still arguing in its defence.

I'm not gay, but I fully support gay rights. So what?

A civil liberties issue then I suppose?

All I am saying is that if both parties want to do it, both parties are free to leave at any point and both parties find it enjoyable and no one else is involved against their will, why not?

That is beside the point.
No-one is asking me to jump off a bridge either - it would still be a wrong move.

Ah, so if the bridge was on fire and the only way to escape would be to jump into the water 20 feet below you, you wouldn't do it?

Geez, learn to see the point.

There are different levels of depravity.

Please define them, and explain how I can tell if something is on a particular level of depravity.

Bestiality is amongst those of the highest level and is clearly wrong.

For something so clear, you sure have a hard time giving an objective reason for it.

Not much point in having a debate over the defiinition of depravity.

No, as it seems you are unable to define it.

While some things may be more or less depraved than bestiality it doesn't alter the fact that this act has no genuine place amongst civilised people.

One could say the same about having a foot fetish too.

I have already given you a link to a wikipedia site that had a table of diseases related to bestiality.

And I responded to it too. Perhaps you need to address what I actually said in response to it, because repeating the same arguments over and over isn't going to make them any better. A flawed argument will always be flawed, no matter how many times you repeat it.

 

[Shadow Wolf]

so is that your justification for the legalisation of bestiality then?

There any point whatsoever in trying to compare kissing to bestiality.

Two completely different things.

Bestiality is for perverts, kissing is not.


(from Wikipedia)

Sexual Perversions Definition

Under Paraphilia NOS, the DSM mentions telephone scatalogia (obscene phone calls), necrophilia (corpses), partialism (exclusive focus on one part of the body), zoophilia (animals), coprophilia (feces), klismaphilia (enemas), urophilia (urine), emetophilia (vomit). The DSM's Paraphilia NOS is equivalent to the ICD-9's Sexual Disorder NOS.

The only difference is cultural. Quoting the DSM for sexual paraphillias only shows your ignorance on the subject of cultural differences and how disorders actually work and appear. And of course the DSM isn't concrete, it faces heavy scrutiny, has been altered many times and the upcoming fifth edition is nothing like the first. We think breasts are sexual, others think they are nothing more than a food source. Some cultures love feet, some heels, some legs, but the only fact is that what is considered sexually appropriate or inappropriate is solely at the discretion of any given culture.

 

[Drolefille]

The only difference is cultural. Quoting the DSM for sexual paraphillias only shows your ignorance on the subject of cultural differences and how disorders actually work and appear. And of course the DSM isn't concrete, it faces heavy scrutiny, has been altered many times and the upcoming fifth edition is nothing like the first. We think breasts are sexual, others think they are nothing more than a food source. Some cultures love feet, some heels, some legs, but the only fact is that what is considered sexually appropriate or inappropriate is solely at the discretion of any given culture.

And the DSM is supposed to take culture and social acceptance into consideration. Diagnoses are only supposed to be made if the person's behavior/thoughts are causing them a significant level of problems in their daily life. Otherwise it's not a 'problem.'

You'll note the "supposed to" of course, but one does what one can.

 

[nnmartin]

The only difference is cultural. Quoting the DSM for sexual paraphillias only shows your ignorance on the subject of cultural differences and how disorders actually work and appear.

So now we are talking about the whole world are we?

I assume Tiberius and his supporters are from a Western culture where bestiality is considered abnormal, therefore I am focusing the debate on that.

And of course the DSM isn't concrete, it faces heavy scrutiny, has been altered many times and the upcoming fifth edition is nothing like the first. We think breasts are sexual, others think they are nothing more than a food source.

If all else fails , then discredit the source!

Are you a qualified psychiatrist?

I am sure much scientific research is put into compiling the DSM so to attempt to write it off because it doesn't allow for your behaviour to be called normal is disengenious at best.

Some cultures love feet, some heels, some legs, but the only fact is that what is considered sexually appropriate or inappropriate is solely at the discretion of any given culture.

Some cultures allow for children to be assaulted for going to school.

We can't just change our laws or force people to accept bestiality as acceptable because other cultures have different norms.

Many of these cultures that you talk about are no doubt in the Third World where there is no rule of law.