Why so much wickedness and suffering ?

[idav]

The common knowledge is it was pandora let all the evils out of a box that shouldn't have been opened. Women!

 

[Draupadi]

Do a research on it. Hinduism is older than Christianity. And the points you have mentioned are not valid enough to prove to us that Bible is the truth. At the beginning of Christianity it wasn't a dominant religion as it is today. Things may change in the future. So will you still have the same belief then?

In my first post in this thread I was referring that you answer the challenge that was thrown at you about the factual errors of the Bible, not necessarily limited to prophecies.

 

[ejalfa]

So there WAS wickedness before Adam and Eve sinned, in the form of the devil, then?

The Devil was the originator of wickedness.
He is a liar and the originator of the lie.
Truth is not found in him.

 

[ejalfa]

..... so ...... am I right in saying that God lost control of the devil?
...... The devil is as powerful as God and is ruining everything in the world?
...... God cannot stop the devil? is that right?

Jehovah has allowed him the devil a set period of time to rule the world.
But his rulership will soon come to an end.
And peace will reign on earth under Christ.

 

[ejalfa]

Do a research on it. Hinduism is older than Christianity. And the points you have mentioned are not valid enough to prove to us that Bible is the truth. At the beginning of Christianity it wasn't a dominant religion as it is today. Things may change in the future. So will you still have the same belief then?

In my first post in this thread I was referring that you answer the challenge that was thrown at you about the factual errors of the Bible, not necessarily limited to prophecies.

You may be right about Hinduism being older, but it doesn't make any difference.
I will always have the same belief !
God's Word is truth !

 

[ejalfa]

Another reason why you can put your trust in the Bible is that when it comes to scientific matters, what this ancient book states is accurate. For example, at a time when most people believed that the earth was flat, the Bible spoke of “the circle [or, sphere] of the earth.”* (Isaiah 40:22) And over 3,000 years before the famous scientist Sir Isaac Newton explained that the planets are held in empty space by gravity, the Bible poetically stated that ‘the earth is hanging upon nothing.’ (Job 26:7) Consider also this poetic description of the earth’s water cycle, recorded some 3,000 years ago: “All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again.” (Ecclesiastes 1:7, New International Version) Yes, the Creator of the universe is also the Author of the Bible.

 

[Riverwolf]

The Devil was the originator of wickedness.
He is a liar and the originator of the lie.
Truth is not found in him.

That's what I thought. So you were wrong, earlier, to say that wickedness started with Adam and Eve's sin. After all, the wicked Serpent was there before that sin, making the first sin in the Bible the Serpents: the lie he told Eve.

(Interestingly enough, a non-canonical book actually shows Eve being far more reluctant to listen to the Serpent at first).

 

[Riverwolf]

I don't think so......

How Old?
Among the major books of religion, the Bible is one of the very oldest. Its first parts were written some 3,500 years ago. This book was completed in 98 C.E.* Though some 40 men were its writers over a period of 1,600 years, the Bible is a harmonious body of writings. That is so because its real Author is God.
The Bible is the most widely circulated and translated book in all history. Each year, some 60 million copies of the entire Bible or portions of it are distributed. The complete Bible or parts of it have been translated into more than 2,300 languages and dialects. Over 90 percent of the human family have access to the Bible, or at least part of it, in their native language. This book has transcended national boundaries, racial divisions, and ethnic barriers.

According to the scholarly consensus, the oldest parts of the Bible were written about 3,000 years ago, maybe. According to that same consensus, the oldest Vedic Hymns date no later than about 4,000 years ago, and might even be older than that.

According to some, the Vedas were composed 10,000 years ago. And according to others, the Vedas have no beginning and no end, for within them is contained the entire Universe.

...and I would hardly call the Biblical canon harmonious. There were also significantly more than 40 writers over those years, and all of them (to my knowledge) are anonymous authors.

 

[ejalfa]

That's what I thought. So you were wrong, earlier, to say that wickedness started with Adam and Eve's sin. After all, the wicked Serpent was there before that sin, making the first sin in the Bible the Serpents: the lie he told Eve.

(Interestingly enough, a non-canonical book actually shows Eve being far more reluctant to listen to the Serpent at first).

Really, just to different points of view....

 

[Draupadi]

Another reason why you can put your trust in the Bible is that when it comes to scientific matters, what this ancient book states is accurate. For example, at a time when most people believed that the earth was flat, the Bible spoke of “the circle [or, sphere] of the earth.”* (Isaiah 40:22) And over 3,000 years before the famous scientist Sir Isaac Newton explained that the planets are held in empty space by gravity, the Bible poetically stated that ‘the earth is hanging upon nothing.’ (Job 26:7) Consider also this poetic description of the earth’s water cycle, recorded some 3,000 years ago: “All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again.” (Ecclesiastes 1:7, New International Version) Yes, the Creator of the universe is also the Author of the Bible.

All such claims have been debunked. And Earth is not circular it's geoid. Can you give me one good reason why Yahweh ordered Ezekiel to eat human excreta just to show the condition of the Israelites?

But guess it will be useless to argue with you because you have strong faith, even though it isn't based on reason.

 

[ejalfa]

All such claims have been debunked. And Earth is not circular it's geoid. Can you give me one good reason why Yahweh ordered Ezekiel to eat human excreta just to show the condition of the Israelites?

But guess it will be useless to argue with you because you have strong faith, even though it isn't based on reason.

Faith is the assured expectation of what is hoped for, the evident demonstration of realities that are not seen. Bible

*Moreover, without faith it is impossible to please God well, for whoever approaches God must believe that he is and that he becomes the rewarder of those earnestly seeking him. The Bible

 

[Riverwolf]

Really, just to different points of view....

So it's up to the individual to determine whether the Serpent's lie was wicked (cause if it wasn't the first instance of wickedness, then it wasn't wicked at all).

Now... I do believe I can express what you're trying to say.

The first instance of wicked behavior in HUMANS was the disobedience of Adam and Eve. Not the first instance in the whole universe of the Christian Mythos, but in humanity. (One commentary I once read suggested that the real reason that they were banished from the Garden, however, wasn't because they ate the fruit, but because they didn't take responsibility for what they've done, with Adam even going so far as to imply that it's ultimately God's fault. "Woman, who YOU put here with me, made me do it!")

The addition or subtraction of just one word can completely change a sentence's meaning.

 

[ejalfa]

So it's up to the individual to determine whether the Serpent's lie was wicked (cause if it wasn't the first instance of wickedness, then it wasn't wicked at all).

Now... I do believe I can express what you're trying to say.

The first instance of wicked behavior in HUMANS was the disobedience of Adam and Eve. Not the first instance in the whole universe of the Christian Mythos, but in humanity. (One commentary I once read suggested that the real reason that they were banished from the Garden, however, wasn't because they ate the fruit, but because they didn't take responsibility for what they've done, with Adam even going so far as to imply that it's ultimately God's fault. "Woman, who YOU put here with me, made me do it!")

The addition or subtraction of just one word can completely change a sentence's meaning.

Yes, I think that's what I mean too.....lol

 

[Pegg]

IOver 90 percent of the human family have access to the Bible, or at least part of it, in their native language. This book has transcended national boundaries, racial divisions, and ethnic barriers.

and this is a good point and something a lot of people fail to appreciate.

the bible is universal. It is available to all people nations and languages, it speaks to human nature like nothing else. And no matter what culture you are from, you can apply its wisdom and principles in your life.

Only God could make such an appealing source of wisdom available.

 

[ejalfa]

and this is a good point and something a lot of people fail to appreciate.

the bible is universal. It is available to all people nations and languages, it speaks to human nature like nothing else. And no matter what culture you are from, you can apply its wisdom and principles in your life.

Only God could make such an appealing source of wisdom available.

Thank you....
Yes the Bible is the word of God !!!

 

[Sunstone]

Only God could make such an appealing source of wisdom available.

Or Mark Twain.

 

[Riverwolf]

It is available to all people nations and languages, it speaks to human nature like nothing else. And no matter what culture you are from, you can apply its wisdom and principles in your life.

I actually could say the same thing about virtually all major works of literature, ancient and modern.

Personally, the Bible doesn't appeal to my nature anywhere near as well as Dragon Ball does.

 

[lewisnotmiller]

I fear you'll not read this openly, but whatever. Glutton for punishment I guess.

Another reason why you can put your trust in the Bible is that when it comes to scientific matters, what this ancient book states is accurate. For example, at a time when most people believed that the earth was flat, the Bible spoke of “the circle [or, sphere] of the earth.”* (Isaiah 40:22)

Firstly, there is a WORLD of difference between a circle and a sphere. That not-withstanding the Ancient Greeks deduced a spherical Earth in the 5th or 6th century BC. They did this via scientific discovery...or at least, what passed for science in those times.
This did not require revelation.

And over 3,000 years before the famous scientist Sir Isaac Newton explained that the planets are held in empty space by gravity, the Bible poetically stated that ‘the earth is hanging upon nothing.’ (Job 26:7)

It's poetic, but not really true. The Earth moves at about 100,000 kms per hour. There are also other quotes from within the Bible that seem to suggest that whilst it does not hang from anything, it may rest on something.

“He shakes the earth from its place and makes its pillars tremble.” Job 9:6

“Where wast thou when I laid the foundations of the earth? … Whereupon are the foundations thereof fastened?” Job 38:4-6

“The pillars of the earth are the LORD’s, and he hath set the world upon them.” 1 Samuel 2:8

“When the earth and all its people quake, it is I who hold its pillars firm.” Psalm 75:3

Anywhoos, that's just my take. I've linked below a more scholarly and informed document on these two issues. I think it's dealt with fairly, but it's a long read, so your call. I think it's interesting, pertinent, and informative, though.

Does the Bible Teach a Spherical Earth

Consider also this poetic description of the earth’s water cycle, recorded some 3,000 years ago: “All streams flow into the sea, yet the sea is never full. To the place the streams come from, there they return again.” (Ecclesiastes 1:7, New International Version) Yes, the Creator of the universe is also the Author of the Bible.

It's poetic, just not scientific. It demonstrates knowledge that the sea doesn't overflow, which is observable. It demonstrates knowledge that streams run to the sea, which is observable.
It does not suggest a clear answer to where streams come from, or outline the water cycle. It's as explainable as a piece of poetry attributing rain to God as anything. How is that compelling evidence of scientific foresight?

 

[ejalfa]

I fear you'll not read this openly, but whatever. Glutton for punishment I guess.



Firstly, there is a WORLD of difference between a circle and a sphere. That not-withstanding the Ancient Greeks deduced a spherical Earth in the 5th or 6th century BC. They did this via scientific discovery...or at least, what passed for science in those times.
This did not require revelation.



It's poetic, but not really true. The Earth moves at about 100,000 kms per hour. There are also other quotes from within the Bible that seem to suggest that whilst it does not hang from anything, it may rest on something.



Anywhoos, that's just my take. I've linked below a more scholarly and informed document on these two issues. I think it's dealt with fairly, but it's a long read, so your call. I think it's interesting, pertinent, and informative, though.

Does the Bible Teach a Spherical Earth




It's poetic, just not scientific. It demonstrates knowledge that the sea doesn't overflow, which is observable. It demonstrates knowledge that streams run to the sea, which is observable.
It does not suggest a clear answer to where streams come from, or outline the water cycle. It's as explainable as a piece of poetry attributing rain to God as anything. How is that compelling evidence of scientific foresight?

The water cycle and the Bible...

Regarding earth’s atmosphere, note what God said, as recorded in the Bible some 2,700 years ago: “The pouring rain descends . . . from the heavens and does not return to that place, unless it actually saturates the earth.” (Isaiah 55:10) How succinctly that describes the hydrologic, or water, cycle! Water vapor in the clouds condenses and precipitates as rain, which “saturates the earth.” Solar heating causes moisture to evaporate and “return to that place,” or the atmosphere, to start the cycle again. Jehovah’s Word revealed amazing details regarding earth’s climate system centuries before non-Biblical writings did. Does that not build your confidence in the Creator and in what he is capable of doing? So when it comes to the outcome of the present climate crisis, would it not be reasonable for us to look to “the Creator of the wind,” the “father for the rain,” the one who knows how this planet functions?—Amos 4:13; Job 38:28.

 

[Father Heathen]

Why, then, is there so much wickedness and suffering?

Human nature.

One reason is that mankind in general has rejected God as Ruler,

Which god, and which version of that god?

not wanting to submit to his righteous laws and principles.

Which laws? The Tanach? The Bible? The Koran? The Bagvadhgita? Sutras? Kitáb-i-Aqdas? Adi Granth? Dianetics?