Skwim
Veteran Member
Punishing people has a twofold purpose, to change the person being punished, and to send a warning to others. Suffering in hell serves neither of these purposes.
.
-
Welcome to Religious Forums, a friendly forum to discuss all religions in a friendly surrounding.
Your voice is missing! You will need to register to get access to the following site features:- Reply to discussions and create your own threads.
- Our modern chat room. No add-ons or extensions required, just login and start chatting!
- Access to private conversations with other members.
We hope to see you as a part of our community soon!
Why the Hell . . . .
- Thread starter Skwim
- Start date
.
james2ko
Well-Known Member
Not necessarily. But He loves to share.
Clearly it has the second purpose going for it. Otherwise, this thread wouldn't even exist, IMO.
Both the items you note are not, in any reasonable way, an accomplishment. Especially when realizing how utterly little punishment has worked within civilization.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
No, no I wouldn't, unless I didn't GENUINELY BELIEVE they didn't exist. If I thought, "hey there might be some truth to that", then I would ask questions to find out why they believed in unicorns. Do you believe that the white race is the superior race? Have you spent any time asking the aryan nation why they believe it is?
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
While I don't believe that the white race is superior, I HAVE asked people who do believe it questions in order to ascertain why they do so. Why wouldn't I? Should I instead hole-up in my house, wear a tin-foil hat and pretend not to hear any time someone comes to my door? No. I'll ask questions of whoever I damn well please, and if they're willing to answer then so much the better for both of us.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
Who has never had a fair opportunity to know God?
Rom 1:18-20 (ESVST) 18 For the wrath of God is revealed from heaven against all ungodliness and unrighteousness of men, who by their unrighteousness suppress the truth. 19 For what can be known about God is plain to them, because God has shown it to them. 20 For his invisible attributes, namely, his eternal power and divine nature, have been clearly perceived, ever since the creation of the world, in the things that have been made. So they are without excuse.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
A Vestigial Mote
Well-Known Member
You suggested that anything we feel is false, or that we don't believe in should be ignored or even avoided. You suggested that the natural thing to do is close our minds to ideas different than our own. I merely exaggerated the case in an attempt to show you how ridiculous you sounded.
Also... please, for the love of decency, do not use those colloquialisms again. I'm not even going to repeat them, for fear that I may suddenly find myself with the urge to shoot myself in the face.
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
I guess it's, "different strokes...."
Have mercy, forgive me for my wording, I wouldn't want you to shoot yourself in the face over something I wrote!
djhwoodwerks
Well-Known Member
In my mind, asking someone why they believe in unicorns would be like asking someone, "why do we drive on a Parkway, and park in a driveway?"
james2ko
Well-Known Member
I believe the context reveals Paul is referring to former Christians who were shown, and once knew, the plain truth of God and rejected it. They are without excuse. Unbelievers whose mind have been blinded to the truth, have an excuse (Mar 4:12; Joh 12:40).
Those born before the only name under heaven by which we may be saved (Act 4:12):
Luk 3:6 And all flesh shall see the salvation of God."
And everyone whose understanding of the truth has been closed by God:
Mar 4:12 so that seeing they may see, and not perceive; and hearing they may hear, and not understand; lest at any time they should be converted, and their sins should be forgiven them.
Joh_12:40 "He [God] has blinded their eyes and hardened their heart, so that they should not see with their eyes nor understand with their heart, and be converted, and I should heal them."
Last edited:
Knowing God is one thing; specifically "trusting Jesus as
your personal Lord and Savior", which is more likely the
route that Christians would prefer a nonbeliever to take,
is another. The latter usually requires missionaries and
ministries delivering a specific, Christo-centric message,
rather than simply observing that which has been made.
-
Well, if one is persuaded that God doesn't exist, then the
question is probably moot.
But for those who believe He does exist, it's manipulative
and meddling, especially if we supposedly have a free
will. A free will would be able to create more choices
where there weren't any.
"Turn or be annihilated" isn't much more of a choice than
"Turn or burn" is, unfortunately. Again, that might be the
best that a demigod could do, but the God I believe in
can do more than that.
Happiness established on that which is only fleeting
doesn't really have any eternal validity. Not only that,
I'm not sure how much happiness in heaven there'd be for
those whose loved ones were snuffed out, never to be
seen or heard from again.
-
Wat_i.need
Member
Hell is for people who do bad things in a bad intentions. We hate such people. We hate cruel people, who hurt other people. Everyone have such people around them people you want them to die but they don't because you are not the one to decide who and how they die.
But if those people who hurt you just living happily, despite the injuries and the hurt you received from them, they still enjoying their life there, will you be happy?.
God given them a chance while they are still alive to show some regret and to ask for forgiveness, why not God just make them die or punish them at that moment for what they did? Because God is the justice and the most merciful, God give everyone time to realize their fault while they are alive and ask for forgiveness. Even the smallest regret is considered.
In Hell, not everyone is punished the same, every person takes what he only deserve, if he hurt a one person he will be punished only for that, if he killed a human he will be punished for that, he won't be punished for other people's mistakes. God is justice. Because you were hurt, that is why they will be punished for it unless you forgive them. If you don’t call it "just" then what you call it? There is a need for Hell indeed. And I'm not the one who decide who should be punished but God , because God knows better what inside those people and what their intention was while human can't know what other people hidden.
But if those people who hurt you just living happily, despite the injuries and the hurt you received from them, they still enjoying their life there, will you be happy?.
God given them a chance while they are still alive to show some regret and to ask for forgiveness, why not God just make them die or punish them at that moment for what they did? Because God is the justice and the most merciful, God give everyone time to realize their fault while they are alive and ask for forgiveness. Even the smallest regret is considered.
In Hell, not everyone is punished the same, every person takes what he only deserve, if he hurt a one person he will be punished only for that, if he killed a human he will be punished for that, he won't be punished for other people's mistakes. God is justice. Because you were hurt, that is why they will be punished for it unless you forgive them. If you don’t call it "just" then what you call it? There is a need for Hell indeed. And I'm not the one who decide who should be punished but God , because God knows better what inside those people and what their intention was while human can't know what other people hidden.
Draka
Wonder Woman
So, your position is that everyone, everyone on Earth, has had an opportunity to know of specifically your god and the rules he wants them to live by? Really? Everyone?
james2ko
Well-Known Member
I will resist the temptation of being sucked into a juvenile discussion of "my God's plan is better than your god's plan". My hope is that he/she has proven to you he/she loves you enough to at least know how many hairs you have on your head.
Good to see you realize this. Your choice of eternal life should be an easy one.
Loved ones who stubbornly reject God after receiving a "no brainer" opportunity will be somberly mourned for a time. Eternal life will go on. Not much different than life going on after a death of a loved one today.
Far different. When we lose a loved one in this life, there's the
hope of seeing them again one day. Not so in your scenario.
-
Draka
Wonder Woman
Mentioned this before, way back near the beginning of the thread, but another option for afterlife could be...reincarnation. Makes loads more sense to me. There is too much to learn in life, too many lessons to learn, mistakes to be made, wisdom to be gained, to garner in one mere human lifetime. Didn't get things quite right? Still have something to learn? Feel the need to atone for a particular action? Have another go around. As many as needed for the spirit to grow properly.
ThePainefulTruth
Romantic-Cynic
Well, if one is persuaded that God doesn't exist, then the
question is probably moot.
But for those who believe He does exist, it's manipulative
and meddling, especially if we supposedly have a free
will. A free will would be able to create more choices
where there weren't any.
A laissez-faire God would not be manipulative. We can't even tell the difference between that and if there is no God. And I don't understand your last sentence.