Why the lie?

[McBell]

"redeem" pagan festivals?
Now if that don't smack of egotism, i don't know what does.

 

[Kcnorwood]

Power hungry? Absolutely not! It was in the interest of pastoral care, and a belief that God was redeeming the world that led Christians to redeem pagan festivals and shift their focus from idols and natural forces to the creator.

I'll never understand why people believe we worship nature, we do hold nature in high regard but we feel we worship the creator. Perhaps the Christians wanted them to focus on thier idol instead.


I appreciate that you don't buy the metaphysic involved here. But it's simply crass and flat wrong to accuse the Church of going on a power trip when they were adapting pagan holidays.

What else would you call out lawing the
Dominate religion? Telling others that they are going to hell & they worship false Gods. The Church Started calling Witches & such Satan worship, thus the church created out of thin air a new kind of Witchcraft a religion of devil worship. The church touted thier religion as the ONE true religion. From there
it got worse.

This insanity was & is rooted in the dualist paranoria of Christian mythology which describes an eternal battle of good & evil.

 

[Dunemeister]

What else would you call out lawing the
Dominate religion? Telling others that they are going to hell & they worship false Gods. The Church Started calling Witches & such Satan worship, thus the church created out of thin air a new kind of Witchcraft a religion of devil worship. The church touted thier religion as the ONE true religion. From there
it got worse.

This insanity was & is rooted in the dualist paranoria of Christian mythology which describes an eternal battle of good & evil.

They didn't outlaw it while Christianity wasn't dominant. The church started out as non-dominant. During that period, they arranged festivals around pagan feast days in order to provide their members -- many of whom were recent converts from paganism -- alternative religious observances with Christian themes. Later, when the church was so dominant it really didn't matter anymore, it became illegal to observe pagan festivals. So what?

I agree that the Medieval Church went a little far with the hell talk. But honestly, I think you're emphasizing it FAR more than they did. And of course, if the church's proclamation is right, pagans DO worship false gods. Telling pagans otherwise would be a disservice to them (even though the pagans themselves might resent it). There's nothing immoral about me telling you that your worldview is radically mistaken. I should do it in love, of course, but there's nothing in principle wrong with my pointing out a mistake you've made (and vice versa).

And OF COURSE Christianity claims to be the one true religion. It claims God in Christ as its founder. What else would it be? The claim might be false, but there's nothing morally wrong with making the claim.

Lastly, the Christian cosmology (I don't say 'mythology' as you do) does not affirm an eternal battle between the devil and God. God is definitely the winner in the end. In fact, the victory of Jesus on the cross was the winning blow. These days, the devil is very real, very powerful, and very busy. But he does NOT get the last word. He's dead meat.

 

[Kcnorwood]

They didn't outlaw it while Christianity wasn't dominant. The church started out as non-dominant. During that period, they arranged festivals around pagan feast days in order to provide their members -- many of whom were recent converts from paganism -- alternative religious observances with Christian themes. Later, when the church was so dominant it really didn't matter anymore, it became illegal to observe pagan festivals. So what?

So what? They had no right to enforce thier belives on others. Lets someone try that today & see what happens?




I agree that the Medieval Church went a little far with the hell talk. But honestly, I think you're emphasizing it FAR more than they did. And of course, if the church's proclamation is right, pagans DO worship false gods. Telling pagans otherwise would be a disservice to them (even though the pagans themselves might resent it). There's nothing immoral about me telling you that your worldview is radically mistaken. I should do it in love, of course, but there's nothing in principle wrong with my pointing out a mistake you've made (and vice versa).

Prove my Gods are faults! Show me your God. Your believes are center around a God who dided for something he created.(sin) I was once a Christian & never felt OR seen anything proof of your God. If you want to worship a God that wants his followers to worship him out of fear thats fine but untill you can prove my religion is a lie then you have nothing. I've corrected you several times about what Pagans believe perhaps you should do some reseach, before you go & bash anothers religion.





Lastly, the Christian cosmology (I don't say 'mythology' as you do) does not affirm an eternal battle between the devil and God. God is definitely the winner in the end. In fact, the victory of Jesus on the cross was the winning blow. These days, the devil is very real, very powerful, and very busy. But he does NOT get the last word. He's dead meat.

Satan is like your God nothing but a copy of Pagan believes.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

What else would you call out lawing the Dominate religion?

Perhaps "outlawing the dominant religion," but that would do little to improve your adolescent rant.

 

[Kcnorwood]

Perhaps "outlawing the dominant religion," but that would do little to improve your adolescent rant.

Yes because that's what it is.. once again debate fourm.

 

[Dunemeister]

Yes because that's what it is.. once again debate fourm.

rant =/= debate

 

[Dunemeister]

Satan is like your God nothing but a copy of Pagan believes.

Okay, it's obvious to me at this point that you're not really interested in actual debate but simply poking fun. I had hoped, especially in our personal correspondence, that we could discuss things rationally. I see that my hopes were misplaced.

 

[Dunemeister]

Edited.

 

[Kcnorwood]

The bible is supposed to be the inspired word of God hence the verse about a Witch should be true by some Christians standards Whoever translated that verse got it wrong & they left it in the bible, that mis-translation was a lie. It does not so like it was inspired by anyone but man. The Pagan Goddess Diana became Satan, Satan is a Judeo-Christian concept Pagans had nothing to do with him.
. In 1484 Pope Innocent VIII issued a papal officially sanctioning the arrest & trial (that is to say, the torture & conviction & execution) of anyone accused of consorting the demons. Soon after the Famous Witches Hammer was written & published by two Catholic priests. Heinrich Kramer & James Sprenger. Thier book sets out methmethods for identifying & tortruing Witch, & it became the standard text for Witch-hunters for the next three centuries.


The Roman Church desired power above all other things & they succeeded. We have some good friends who are Catholic & they themselves believe that the Roman Church is corrupt.
You talked about how the Church did nothing but make a few holidays theirs in order to gain favor with the Pagans, However Christianity did not provide much support for any competing religions, all they did was accept some local planting & herding customs, turned some of the local deities’ & natures spirits into saints & demons. Then they went on their way subverting & co-opting the faiths of the conquered people.


If you can't see that Satan is nothing more then a copy of the God Pan (hence the cloven feet & horns) thats not my problem, he could even be called a copy of Prometheus. Which I've never understood because Lucifer was supposed to be the most beautiful of all Gods angels. Others have pointed out to you what the Chruch took from the Pagans & made their own. Just because you don't see it does not mean it's true.

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

And on the seventh day YHWH Elohim said:

"Stop with the damn flute playing. Ansd Satan stopped. And it was very good."​

 

[Jayhawker Soule]

If you can't see that Satan is nothing more then a copy of the God Pan (hence the cloven feet & horns) ...

Holy CRAP! Satan is kosher :thud:

 

[Azakel]

Holy CRAP! Satan is kosher :thud:

I want to say something witty but I can't......lol good one.

 

[Gentoo]

***MOD POST***

Thread closed by request.
​