Why they are fake?

[AhmedE]

the Qur'an was written by anyone but Mohammad

god have mentions in the Quran the sin or saying that something we invented is from god so it can not be what you think:

Look how they invent about Allah untruth, and sufficient is that as a manifest sin.

And who is more unjust than one who invents about Allah a lie or denies His verses? Indeed, the wrongdoers will not succeed.

And who is more unjust than one who invents a lie about Allah or says, "It has been inspired to me," while nothing has been inspired to him, and one who says, "I will reveal [something] like what Allah revealed." And if you could but see when the wrongdoers are in the overwhelming pangs of death while the angels extend their hands, [saying], "Discharge your souls! Today you will be awarded the punishment of [extreme] humiliation for what you used to say against Allah other than the truth and [that] you were, toward His verses, being arrogant."

And who is more unjust than one who invents about Allah a lie or denies His verses? Those will attain their portion of the decree until when Our messengers come to them to take them in death, they will say, "Where are those you used to invoke besides Allah ?" They will say, "They have departed from us," and will bear witness against themselves that they were disbelievers.

And this Qur'an is not such as could ever be invented in despite of Allah; but it is a confirmation of that which was before it and an exposition of that which is decreed for mankind - Therein is no doubt - from the Lord of the Worlds.

Or do they say [about the Prophet], "He invented it?" Say, "Then bring forth a surah like it and call upon [for assistance] whomever you can besides Allah , if you should be truthful."

 

[LuisDantas]

God lets them and gives them what they need because he's merciful and they might believe in him .. but after their death they will regret what they have done

Why would we?

 

[Riverwolf]

god have mentions in the Quran the sin or saying that something we invented is from god so it can not be what you think:

Look how they invent about Allah untruth, and sufficient is that as a manifest sin.

And who is more unjust than one who invents about Allah a lie or denies His verses? Indeed, the wrongdoers will not succeed.

And who is more unjust than one who invents a lie about Allah or says, "It has been inspired to me," while nothing has been inspired to him, and one who says, "I will reveal [something] like what Allah revealed." And if you could but see when the wrongdoers are in the overwhelming pangs of death while the angels extend their hands, [saying], "Discharge your souls! Today you will be awarded the punishment of [extreme] humiliation for what you used to say against Allah other than the truth and [that] you were, toward His verses, being arrogant."

And who is more unjust than one who invents about Allah a lie or denies His verses? Those will attain their portion of the decree until when Our messengers come to them to take them in death, they will say, "Where are those you used to invoke besides Allah ?" They will say, "They have departed from us," and will bear witness against themselves that they were disbelievers.

And this Qur'an is not such as could ever be invented in despite of Allah; but it is a confirmation of that which was before it and an exposition of that which is decreed for mankind - Therein is no doubt - from the Lord of the Worlds.

Or do they say [about the Prophet], "He invented it?" Say, "Then bring forth a surah like it and call upon [for assistance] whomever you can besides Allah , if you should be truthful."

First of all, the whole "like it" test is completely nonsensical. Exactly what is the criteria for "like" it? If we're talking about emotional impact, I've read plenty of books, heard plenty of songs, heck I've played video games that had stronger emotional resonance with me.

Second of all, using the Qur'an to prove the Qur'an is circular reasoning. I.e., it's logically fallacious. If you're going to prove the Qur'an, you have to use something else. You can't use the Qur'an.

 

[Tumah]

The prophet is mentioned in the bible also in the scrolls of the dead sea ..

Can you tell me where in the Torah the prophet is mentioned?

 

[AhmedE]

Why would we?

because as god said in surat albaqara:

Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe.
Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.
...
O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous -
[He] who made for you the earth a bed [spread out] and the sky a ceiling and sent down from the sky, rain and brought forth thereby fruits as provision for you. So do not attribute to Allah equals while you know [that there is nothing similar to Him].
And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah , if you should be truthful.
But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.
And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds that they will have gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit therefrom, they will say, "This is what we were provided with before." And it is given to them in likeness. And they will have therein purified spouses, and they will abide therein eternally.

 

[AhmedE]

it's logically fallacious

logical fallacies are rules made or created by "man" to judge things made by "man" so it doesn't apply to Quran ..

 

[LuisDantas]

because as god said in surat albaqara:

Indeed, those who disbelieve - it is all the same for them whether you warn them or do not warn them - they will not believe.
Allah has set a seal upon their hearts and upon their hearing, and over their vision is a veil. And for them is a great punishment.
...
O mankind, worship your Lord, who created you and those before you, that you may become righteous -
[He] who made for you the earth a bed [spread out] and the sky a ceiling and sent down from the sky, rain and brought forth thereby fruits as provision for you. So do not attribute to Allah equals while you know [that there is nothing similar to Him].
And if you are in doubt about what We have sent down upon Our Servant [Muhammad], then produce a surah the like thereof and call upon your witnesses other than Allah , if you should be truthful.
But if you do not - and you will never be able to - then fear the Fire, whose fuel is men and stones, prepared for the disbelievers.
And give good tidings to those who believe and do righteous deeds that they will have gardens [in Paradise] beneath which rivers flow. Whenever they are provided with a provision of fruit therefrom, they will say, "This is what we were provided with before." And it is given to them in likeness. And they will have therein purified spouses, and they will abide therein eternally.

So you are saying that this Surat insults God?

 

[AhmedE]

where in the Torah the prophet is mentioned

Deuteronomy 18: 15-22

 

[AhmedE]

So you are saying that

life is not for fun, it is not it's reality .. if you want to live life that way then you're wrong there's a punishment for those who do bad things in this life .. in the hereafter and it's not a game

 

[Tumah]

Deuteronomy 18: 15-22

I looked over there, I didn't see anything about Muhammad. Only about Joshua, the prophet after Moses, who is a brother of Israel, son of the same father, Yaqub
Do you have anything more specific about Muhammad?

 

[Riverwolf]

logical fallacies are rules made or created by "man" to judge things made by "man" so it doesn't apply to Quran ..

Seeing as all the evidence I've ever seen points to the Qur'an being made by a man, then all logical fallacies apply to it as much as they apply to everything else.

Including, by the way, to things that were around long before humans.

Logical fallacies apply to human thinking. It's you committing the fallacy of circular reasoning; doesn't matter whatsoever what the circle keeps leading back to.

 

[AhmedE]

Do you have anything more specific about Muhammad?

No I don't in fact you should ask your scholars they must know better than me

 

[Tumah]

No I don't in fact you should ask your scholars they must know better than me

I am a scholar of Judaism. I learn all the Jewish Holy books. There is nothing about Islam. I am sorry. Don't be angry at your Imam. He made a mistake.

 

[AhmedE]

doesn't matter whatsoever what the circle keeps leading back to.

you cann't be sure about these rules or can guarantee that they will make you survive in the hereafter

 

[Riverwolf]

you cann't be sure about these rules

Seeing as they've never once failed me, yes I can be.

or can guarantee that they will make you survive in the hereafter

Don't care about the hereafter. Never been given a compelling reason to. Fear of "consequences after death" don't scare me, because the entire idea is all kinds of sadistic (to put it nicely), and there's not anywhere near enough of an indication that any such consequences even happen.

 

[LuisDantas]

life is not for fun, it is not it's reality .. if you want to live life that way then you're wrong there's a punishment for those who do bad things in this life .. in the hereafter and it's not a game

What does that have to do with the second Surat, "The Cow"? You have just claimed that it is sacrilegous, that it insults God by portraying him as unfair to unbelievers.

I don't know why you did, but as an argument towards convincing me that God is real it just does not work.

 

[AhmedE]

Don't be angry at your Imam. He made a mistake.

anyway if I went with you that Islam was wrong this doesn't mean that your religion is true
and by the way Imam in islam is an oridnary man we can tell him you are wrong if he was wrong and also he can be an Imam of hell so we must not follow him if we knew that he is

 

[AhmedE]

convincing me that God is real it just does not work.

Speak from your heart, and you'll say that "you don't want to believe" not "you don't believe"

 

[LuisDantas]

Speak from your heart, and you'll say that "you don't want to believe" not "you don't believe"

Don't you dare lie about what my heart says.

 

[Riverwolf]

Speak from your heart,

You don't know what other peoples' hearts are. Any God who tells you that everyone has the same heart is a lying God.