Why they are fake?

[Vishvavajra]

Yes, and to ask "Did this really happen as written?" pretty much misses the point in large part.

What I usually say is this: the question isn't "did this really happen," but "what does this mean."

Myth is a kind of language that is trying to communicate something within a highly subjective cultural context. That makes it harder for people outside that context to understand. But myth is also the oldest form of human expression by far, and it cuts to the very deepest levels of who we are, individually and collectively.

 

[metis]

What I usually say is this: the question isn't "did this really happen," but "what does this mean."

Myth is a kind of language that is trying to communicate something within a highly subjective cultural context. That makes it harder for people outside that context to understand. But myth is also the oldest form of human expression by far, and it cuts to the very deepest levels of who we are, individually and collectively.

In Judaism, we often use the expression "the meaning behind the words", which is to be taken as being more than just an interpretation. Sorta like "What's really going on here?", but not in a literalistic sense.

 

[Looncall]

What I usually say is this: the question isn't "did this really happen," but "what does this mean."

Myth is a kind of language that is trying to communicate something within a highly subjective cultural context. That makes it harder for people outside that context to understand. But myth is also the oldest form of human expression by far, and it cuts to the very deepest levels of who we are, individually and collectively.

That's fine. I have no problem with it. It makes things richer.

However, literalism is a big temptation for those with an axe to grind. Creationists are a good example. "It's in the holy book, so it must be how things happened." is a meme that is around, and those that follow it are apt to insist on it.

I'm glad that Sophisticated Theologians (tm) admit to mythology. I wonder if the run-of-the-mill churchgoer has that view.

I would be interested to know how peoples living in a pre-scientific, myth-rich society view things. I wonder if they think the stories "really happened".

Does anyone know of such studies?

 

[Parsimony]

Q: Why do you believe what the Quran says is true?
A: Because it is the word of God.
Q: Why do you believe it is the word of God?
A: Because the Quran says it is the word of God.
Q: Why do you believe what the Quran says is true?

...and so on and so on the cycle goes forever. How do you break the circle?

 

[Servant_of_the_One1]

Brother,
Th kuffar dont believe islam is the truth.
However Jews recognize prophet Muhammad pbuh more than they recognize their own sons. Because for their disbelief, Allah cursed the disbelievers amongst the Jews. As for the jews who do believe, Allah swt gives them double reward.
The Jews knows there would come a prophet like Moses, who comes with Law and who is followed by his people.
It cannot be Jesus son of Mary pbuh for one problematic issue: jews disbelieved him.
Only Prophet Muhammad pbuh fits this prophecy, the people accepted him and the polytheists were defeated.
A firm law came, the kuffar were humiliated, polytheists crushed, the riches were forced to pay money for the poor. When the Jews committed treason, many of them were executed and some forced into exile. They tried to kill the prophet PBUH with a stone, it backfired. Allah swt made their plans fail. Conspiring with the pagans from Makkah, it didnt help them at all.
Al Ahzab(the coalition) were scattered and blown by the winds forsaking their jewish friends in Madina.

9. O you who believe! Remember Allah's Favour to you, when there came against you hosts, and We sent against them a wind and forces that you saw not [i.e. troops of angels during the battle of Al-Ahzab (the Confederates)]. And Allah is Ever All-Seer of what you do.

The believers were tested with mighty test:
10. When they came upon you from above you and from below you, and when the eyes grew wild and the hearts reached to the throats, and you were harbouring doubts about Allah.

How did the hypocrites react when the coalition came?

12. And when the hypocrites and those in whose hearts is a disease (of doubts) said: "Allah and His Messenger (

) promised us nothing but delusions!"


The hypocrites said : "Allah's messenger pbuh promised us falsehood. He told us Shaam(Syria, Lebanon, Palestine) and Yemen will be conquered by the believers while we cannot leave our homes in madina without fear(attack by the coalition)!"

GOD promises those among you who believe and lead a righteous life, that He will make them sovereigns on earth, as He did for those before them, and will establish for them the religion He has chosen for them, and will substitute peace and security for them in place of fear. All this because they worship me alone; they never set up any idols beside Me. Those who disbelieve after this are the truly wicked. [24:55]

 

[Vishvavajra]

I would be interested to know how peoples living in a pre-scientific, myth-rich society view things. I wonder if they think the stories "really happened".

Does anyone know of such studies?

I don't know about anthropological studies with contemporary tribes. When it comes to ancient people, it's hard to generalize. We only have the views of the people who wrote the literature, which is the highly educated, not necessarily representative. But they do show a great deal of sophistication in their approach to myth.

The one thing I think we can say is that traditional cultures don't so much have this bifurcated view of the world between the literal and scientific on the one hand and the mythic and figurative on the other. All their knowledge is treated as subjective and negotiable to some extent. One could make a good case that our notion of objectivity is mostly a modern development. What that means is that they could believe in the contents of the myths without doing so in the way that the modern fundamentalist does. The fundamentalist is, ironically, applying distinctly modern criteria of factuality and objectivity (that are a by-product of scientific thought) to ancient myth, and coming to very different conclusions than ancient people would have. It's an attempt to go back to an earlier time without accounting for the different assumptions and heuristics that were at work then.

At the same time, it's not true that ancient people didn't believe in these things, at least in some sense. They're not just fun stories but a way of conceptualizing the world—albeit one that people tended to participate in actively, rather than just receiving passively. People didn't just swallow myth that was handed to them; they added to it, altered it, created alternative versions that coexisted with other versions, even contradictory ones. It would be hard to explain that high tolerance for creativity and variation if people were treating this stuff as 100% factual and set-in-stone the way fundamentalists do. And there's good reason to believe that was happening at all levels of society, not just literate elites.

 

[AhmedE]

What's the proof that God exists?
Our need, our need of who makes us alive who gives us what we need (e.g. food), it's god who gave us that ..

What's the proof that Islam is the right religion?
There are so many things that proves that I'll give an example .. Prophet Mohammed PBUH said that god has 99 names .. and after searching Quran and Hadith it was found that they are exactly 99 names .. this is an example

Are there any other true religions?
No, Islam is the religion, after Islam there are no other right religions

Can you say that all religions are wrong! without even knowing them?
Yes, I can say that everyone must follow Islam because it's the only true religion .. god told us that in Quran ..

Are other religions e.g. Christianity aren't sent by god?
No, It's sent by god and the bible has a very big similarity with Quran in its orders can reach a 90% .. the Bible has already some of what god revealed .. but it's not exactly what god revealed .. it has some things not revealed by god and Song of Songs is a clear proof.

 

[Vishvavajra]

What's the proof that Islam is the right religion?
There are so many things that proves that I'll give an example .. Prophet Mohammed PBUH said that god has 99 names .. and after searching Quran and Hadith it was found that they are exactly 99 names .. this is an example

Okay, this is a joke, right? A false flag operation meant to make Muslims look stupid? If so, that's not nice.

 

[leibowde84]

If it's not for the sake of god 100% then it's wrong .. it's just like a ratio .. if it's for god 0% it's wrong 100%
and god said: And We had certainly brought them a Book which We detailed by knowledge - as guidance and mercy to a people who believe.

If something is fact, and you know it to be fact, then there is no belief involved. It is merely knowledge. Religious BELIEFS regarding the Quran or God are certainly not facts, as they are not falsifiable/testable. At the very best, they will only be strongly held beliefs or articles of faith. With beliefs and faith, the possibility that they may be wrong is necessary by definition.

 

[LuisDantas]

What's the proof that God exists?
Our need, our need of who makes us alive who gives us what we need (e.g. food), it's god who gave us that ..

That is just not at all convincing as proof.

What's the proof that Islam is the right religion?
There are so many things that proves that I'll give an example .. Prophet Mohammed PBUH said that god has 99 names .. and after searching Quran and Hadith it was found that they are exactly 99 names .. this is an example

That is not proof either. The Quran and the Ahadith were ultimately written by human hands. That is true even according to Islamic doctrine, if I am not mistaken.

Also, having had some studies in the psychology of perception, I am aware of how selective human perception often is. It is exceendingly easy, and in fact likely to happen involuntarily, of people narrowing or extending their understandings of what makes a name so that the number is reached.

Are there any other true religions?
No, Islam is the religion, after Islam there are no other right religions

If you say so. However, such a statement does not even need to be challenged. It can be freely disagreed with, since it is so arbitrary to begin with.

Can you say that all religions are wrong! without even knowing them?
Yes, I can say that everyone must follow Islam because it's the only true religion .. god told us that in Quran ..

By saying so, you are in essence giving up your goal of evidencing the truth of Islam and of the Quran, because you enter a circular argument here. It is true if you take as a premise that it is true.

Are other religions e.g. Christianity aren't sent by god?
No, It's sent by god and the bible has a very big similarity with Quran in its orders can reach a 90% .. the Bible has already some of what god revealed .. but it's not exactly what god revealed .. it has some things not revealed by god and Song of Songs is a clear proof.

Claims of inspiration by god say very little in and of themselves, all the more so once one realizes how marginal the concept of god is for religion.

 

[AhmedE]

this is a joke, right?

It's not, in fact the 99 names are not in one place they are in different places in the Quran and Hadith

 

[AhmedE]

there is no belief involved.

some facts are believed to be facts now and might be proven wrong in the future, and using words doesn't matter

 

[psychoslice]

No it's not in fact the arrogance is when someone say it's not the truth without having knowledge about it

Na, I don't agree with you at all, you believe you have the truth and everyone else is wrong, need I say anymore ?.

 

[AhmedE]

extending their understandings of what makes a name so that the number is reached.

hahahaha, do you think these are secrets? if you can prove me wrong I'll go with you that it's not "true"

 

[AhmedE]

you believe you have the truth and everyone else is wrong

I don't say that I'm right in what I say but what god says in Quran is right ..

 

[leibowde84]

some facts are believed to be facts now and might be proven wrong in the future, and using words doesn't matter

that's exactly my point, things that you believed to be facts could be proven wrong in the future. I am asking you to recognize this fact.

 

[psychoslice]

I don't say that I'm right in what I say but what god says in Quran is right ..

Its the same thing, you are hiding behind what you believe God wrote, when in fact he wrote nothing, you are conditioned to believe what you believe and all the ready made answers are there for your defence, but this is also what everyone else thinks, depending on their culture and conditioning of beliefs. For me if there is any truth in a one religion it certainly isn't found in the Koran, or the bible, its only found in our heart.

 

[Riverwolf]

Do myths often serve as national propaganda?

Absolutely. Stories have immense power over people, and what better propaganda could leaders ask for than national myths?

 

[Riverwolf]

What's the proof that God exists?
Our need, our need of who makes us alive who gives us what we need (e.g. food), it's god who gave us that ..

No, it's farmers who currently provide us food. Beyond that, it's the union between the Sky and Earth that allows for Life.

So yes, rain is the Sky Father's semen.

What's the proof that Islam is the right religion?
There are so many things that proves that I'll give an example .. Prophet Mohammed PBUH said that god has 99 names .. and after searching Quran and Hadith it was found that they are exactly 99 names .. this is an example

That's not proof at all.

Are there any other true religions?
No, Islam is the religion, after Islam there are no other right religions

Nonsense.

Can you say that all religions are wrong! without even knowing them?
Yes, I can say that everyone must follow Islam because it's the only true religion .. god told us that in Quran ..

The Qur'an is not good enough for me, because every indication I've seen is that the Qur'an was authored by Mohammad.

Are other religions e.g. Christianity aren't sent by god?
No, It's sent by god and the bible has a very big similarity with Quran in its orders can reach a 90% .. the Bible has already some of what god revealed .. but it's not exactly what god revealed .. it has some things not revealed by god and Song of Songs is a clear proof.

All stories are from the Mead of Song, from the most profane porn to the most elegant poetry.

 

[leibowde84]

I don't say that I'm right in what I say but what god says in Quran is right ..

God didn't write the Quran, Muhammad did. He merely claimed to have been led by God. I'm not saying it isn't true, but anyone could make this claim.

What's the proof that God exists?
Our need, our need of who makes us alive who gives us what we need (e.g. food), it's god who gave us that ..

What's the proof that Islam is the right religion?
There are so many things that proves that I'll give an example .. Prophet Mohammed PBUH said that god has 99 names .. and after searching Quran and Hadith it was found that they are exactly 99 names .. this is an example

Are there any other true religions?
No, Islam is the religion, after Islam there are no other right religions

Can you say that all religions are wrong! without even knowing them?
Yes, I can say that everyone must follow Islam because it's the only true religion .. god told us that in Quran ..

Are other religions e.g. Christianity aren't sent by god?
No, It's sent by god and the bible has a very big similarity with Quran in its orders can reach a 90% .. the Bible has already some of what god revealed .. but it's not exactly what god revealed .. it has some things not revealed by god and Song of Songs is a clear proof.

So, muhammad said that there were 99 names for God and wrote the Quran, and it surprises you that there are 99 names for God in the Quran and it's subtexts? I must be missing something.