Why Was Jesus Necessary?

[Kenny]

False. What part of Free Will Requires Power is beyond you?

What part of "All The Power" is something you don't get?

In order to experience Free Will? There can be NO All The Power being in existence-- that would negate all free will.

This isn't a difficult concept, really, but your analogy doesn't work: the Supreme Court isn't god, and certainly isn't All Powerful. It's not even 1/3 Powerful...

IF your god can renig or reverse Free Will? Then it's not Free at all, is it?

Free Will and All Powerful are mutually exclusive: you cannot have both.

I gave you the example of the Supreme Court. That you don't want to accept truth and reality is not something I can help you with. You are a free-will spiritual agent that can determine your own viewpoint.

 

[Kenny]

What? English, man! I only speak English... and I don't read minds either.

If you are trying to imply something not said? Well I won't even attempt to guess what you are attempting to imply, here.

Just quoted what you said

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Yes, you deleted the part where I answered all your questions.....I noticed that....and its obvious that you read none of it....I wasn't really expecting you to...it was for people who cared...remember?

And speaking of judgmental and abusive....what do you call your own posts?

.

I am judging your GOD-- the one you claim has abusive dominion over ME.

I have not called YOU ugly names-- in direct contrast to YOUR posts...

See the difference yet? No? Well....

Yes, I thought it was a gem too. So how could you get upset by being entrusted to the care of someone you don't believe in? Would it have helped if I had left you in the hands of the tooth fairy? .

At lest the tooth fairy isn't trying to torture me forever, for the "sin" of not believing without ONE OUNCE of proof... !

He doesn't want to convince atheists...sorry. Its up to them to convince themselves.....you all need him...he doesn't need you.
But you knew that...right?.

So, basically, your god MALICIOUSLY and DELIBERATELY refuses to prove himself?

Wow... he's worse than I had thought!

Probably just as well.....you might not have survived meeting him face to face. .

If I was worried? Do you think I'd still be an atheist? Imaginary Enemies are no more frightening than any other Santa Claus like construct.

Your monster-god is akin to random noises beyond the camp fire...

Besides, he has already put in a monumental effort by creating the planet you live on...the air you breathe...the food you eat....and the water and beans you make your coffee with. I think it might be your turn to make an effort. What do you reckon?.

LMAO! Oh! My! you have any PROOF of this ludicrous and most amusing claim?

Note: There are now medicines available, than can cure your hallucinations...

Your god supposedly creates the planet: But leaves MORE PROOF FOR EVOLUTION THAN HIMSELF.

What's up with THAT?

Why? because he won't give YOU enough evidence to convince YOU? Are you throwing a tantrum?

.

Nope. I'm not the one threatening with infinite TORTURE here-- that would be YOU.

YOU are the tantrum. And YOU are absolute proof your monster-god isn't real.

I have all the evidence I need....my conviction is strong. A whole lot of other people feel the same way....so what's missing for you?.

So what? You are so JUDGMENTAL and UGLY to non-believers that you lack all credibility...

Which is what....?

Your god is either EVIL or MYTH.

Which is it? Evil?

Myth?

There can be no other options; a GOOD being would not commit such EVIL acts!

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

I gave you the example of the Supreme Court. That you don't want to accept truth and reality is not something I can help you with. You are a free-will spiritual agent that can determine your own viewpoint.

Once More With Feeling:

A Supreme Court is not an "example". It is a HUMAN CONSTRUCT, made of HUMANS.

Humans cannot have ABSOLUTE POWER.

Your god allegedly does-- meaning?

THERE CAN BE NO FREE WILL IF ABSOLUTE POWER EXISTS.

Your "example" was so false it was laughable...

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

.... funny icon choice...

I'm so glad you think an abusive god is FUNNY.

It's yet another example why your abusive and evil god cannot possibly be REAL.

You actually think, that torturing people forever... is ... FUNNY?

 

[Aupmanyav]

We have done fairly well without Abrahamic Gods, sons, later or earlier day saints, messengers, manifestations and Mahdis.The Chinese have done better than us.

You can't torture a dead man.

You certainly can. Raise him from dead and put him in eternal hell.

 

[Kenny]

Once More With Feeling:

A Supreme Court is not an "example". It is a HUMAN CONSTRUCT, made of HUMANS.

Humans cannot have ABSOLUTE POWER.

Your god allegedly does-- meaning?

THERE CAN BE NO FREE WILL IF ABSOLUTE POWER EXISTS.

Your "example" was so false it was laughable...

Apparently, what is contradicts your position.

I think I will stay with God's viewpoint... I've read the end of The Book and He reigns supreme.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

Apparently, what is contradicts your position.

I think I will stay with God's viewpoint... I've read the end of The Book and He reigns supreme.

As always-- you got ANY Proof of that silly claim? No?

Not even in your own bible? In which Free Will does not exist at all, and neither does the bible support All Powerful... ?

Okaaaay. "Have Fun Stormin' The Castle"

 

[syo]

So the whole A&E / snake event was just a ruse? All along god's intent was to create A&E just so he could fill the world with creatures he could kill? Doesn't sound like god is hitting on all cylinders. In fact, it sounds quite savage.

I talk about Jesus' death. Because of Adam and Eve, Jesus had to die.

What is this death's power and why does it have to be involved?

.

Death's power is death. The fact of becoming dead was to be negated.

 

[syo]

Why not? Why not simply snap the fingers to negate the "power" of death?

It sounds like this "death" is more powerful than advertised-- perhaps on par with god himself, since he had to jump through so many hoops to "appease" death...

hmmmm.... It makes death into a superior position, and god into a mere supplicant...

death must exist and then negated.

 

[Kenny]

As always-- you got ANY Proof of that silly claim? No?

Not even in your own bible? In which Free Will does not exist at all, and neither does the bible support All Powerful... ?

Okaaaay. "Have Fun Stormin' The Castle"

As they say, time will tell who is correct.

Interestingly enough, He was correct in the establishing of Israel again, was correct in the birth, death and resurrection and in so many other past realities.

So you can ask Him later.

 

[syo]

Why is death powerful at all? Oh, and nothing on earth (as far as we know) is immortal, so death gets the last laugh after all?

yes, nothing is immortal. only God is immortal and he can defeat death.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

There are all kinds of sacrifices, none of which have to do with intentional sin.

Seems to me the Golden Calf was an intentional sacrifice thus intentional sinning.
However, basically in Scripture sinning is either on purpose or not, premeditated or nor, willful or not.
We should Not want to sin on purpose, but we all accidently slip up.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

yes, nothing is immortal. only God is immortal and he can defeat death.

True, at first only God was immortal, but I find because Jesus died a faithful death God granted immortality to Jesus as per John 5:26. The last enemy death will be brought to nothing as per 1 Corinthians 15:26; Isaiah 25:8.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

There is the sacrifice that has to do with every sin, the one the High-Priest did to place blood on the Mercy Seat in the Holy of Holies even as he laid his hands on the live goat that was led away to a far away place.

Let me ask you this.

When David was confronted by Nathan, he confessed. Did Nathan say, "Quick, go make a sacrifice!" NO. Did he say, "Well, wait until Yom Kippur and your sin will be forgiven then"? NO. He said, "Your sin is forgiven." David was forgiven right then and there, based solely on his repentance. Do you agree with the sacred text on this matter?

 

[Kenny]

Let me ask you this.

When David was confronted by Nathan, he confessed. Did Nathan say, "Quick, go make a sacrifice!" NO. Did he say, "Well, wait until Yom Kippur and your sin will be forgiven then"? NO. He said, "Your sin is forgiven." David was forgiven right then and there, based solely on his repentance. Do you agree with the sacred text on this matter?

Yes and no.

Do you agree that because of his transgressions, even with repentance, there was a consequence?

And, do you think that he simply bypassed the sin offering as if it didn't exist? Or do you think he simply said "OHHH, I'm forgiven so I don't need to follow the law of Moses"?

Or did you want it to be written about every step, thought and action he did after that?

Is there a reason why you are bypassing the reality of what the High Priest did once a year for the sins of Israel? Which, incidentally, typifies Yeshua Hamashiach's and His taking the curse of the law on the tree.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Seems to me the Golden Calf was an intentional sacrifice thus intentional sinning.
However, basically in Scripture sinning is either on purpose or not, premeditated or nor, willful or not.
We should Not want to sin on purpose, but we all accidently slip up.

Are you kidding? The Golden Calf had nothing to do with Judaism's sacrificial system, which wasn't even given yet. Rather, it was Egyptian in nature, and i don't believe Egyptians sacrificed for sins, but instead their sacrifices were simply to please the gods so that calamities and bad fortune would not befall them.

 

[IndigoChild5559]

Yes and no.

Do you agree that because of his transgressions, even with repentance, there was a consequence?

Yes. Proverbs says that God discipline whom he loves. It was not that God condemned David, who was "a man after God's own heart," but rather that Hashem wanted to help set David on the right path, to teach him, to train him. Has this happened in your life?

David was forgiven by Hashem because he repented. That means David turned away from his sinful ways and turned back to God's ways, meaning he returned to obeying the commandments.

 

[Bob the Unbeliever]

death must exist and then negated.

Why? And why did god need to jump through so many hoops to "negate" it?

Again: this paints a picture of a very VERY weak god, and puts death in a superior position.

If it took such a powerful Magical Ritual to "negate" it...

 

[Kenny]

Yes. Proverbs says that God discipline whom he loves. It was not that God condemned David, who was "a man after God's own heart," but rather that Hashem wanted to help set David on the right path, to teach him, to train him. Has this happened in your life?

David was forgiven by Hashem because he repented. That means David turned away from his sinful ways and turned back to God's ways, meaning he returned to obeying the commandments.

And, do you think that he simply bypassed the sin offering as if it didn't exist? Or do you think he simply said "OHHH, I'm forgiven so I don't need to follow the law of Moses" and commit another sin?

Or did you want it to be written about every step, thought and action he did after that?

Is there a reason why you are bypassing the reality of what the High Priest did once a year for the sins of Israel? Which, incidentally, typifies Yeshua Hamashiach's and His taking the curse of the law on the tree