Why would an All-Loving God create a world that has so much suffering in it?

[Faithofchristian]

Why would an All-Loving God create a world that has so much suffering in it?

We cannot blame God for all the suffering in the world, because humans have free will so they are responsible for some of their own suffering, but clearly God set it up so we would suffer, and some people suffer so much more than others, often through no fault of their own. This happens because that was their fate, a fate determined by God. Some of that fate is impending and can be avoided but some of it is irrevocable so we are stuck with it no matter what we try to do to avoid it. I believe this because it is based upon my religious beliefs:

“Know thou, O fruit of My Tree, that the decrees of the Sovereign Ordainer, as related to fate and predestination, are of two kinds. Both are to be obeyed and accepted. The one is irrevocable, the other is, as termed by men, impending. To the former all must unreservedly submit, inasmuch as it is fixed and settled. God, however, is able to alter or repeal it. As the harm that must result from such a change will be greater than if the decree had remained unaltered, all, therefore, should willingly acquiesce in what God hath willed and confidently abide by the same.

The decree that is impending, however, is such that prayer and entreaty can succeed in averting it.

God grant that thou who art the fruit of My Tree, and they that are associated with thee, may be shielded from its evil consequences.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 133

Note that it says it “can succeed” not that it “will succeed.”

What that amounts to is that we are completely at the mercy of God.

Evil consequences do not sound like they are coming from an All-Loving God… What’s up with that?

I am sorry, but I cannot believe that God is All-Loving because of what I see in the world. Why would an All-Loving God create a world like this where some people suffer a lot and some people suffer hardly at all? How just is that?

The usual religious apologetic is that “we will know more in the afterlife” and that “all our suffering will be over in the afterlife,” but even if that is true, what good does that do us now? Not only has very little been revealed by God about that afterlife, but it has to be believed solely on faith.

Another religious apologetic is that “suffering makes us grow stronger,” and that might be true for some people, but not for all people. Aside from that, an omnipotent/omniscient God could have come up with a better way for us to grow stronger, Imo. Putting us through this torture chamber is not what I consider Loving. Of course, I do not expect people who have not suffered much and have been happy most of their lives to understand what I am saying. It is probably very easy for them to see God as All-Loving.

I am sure there will be the people who say they have suffered a lot but they still believe God is All-Loving. I am waiting to hear from them. Please bear in mind that what they call suffering might not have been so bad, and they have no way of knowing the suffering that other people have endured. As far as I am concerned the worst suffering anyone can endure is loss of a loved one, human or animal, another great part of God’s design. This might be a test, as in the Story of Job, but I cannot consider a God who does this to people en masse “Loving.”

Some people might say that death of a loved one is no big deal but nobody can understand the suffering of anyone else unless they have walked a mile in their moccasins.

You really got to be kidding..
God didn't set anything up for suffering..

Man/human beings brought all suffering up on themselves.. for disobeying God..

Had mankind obeyed God..there would be no suffering..
That even in our own world of to day..
People still chooses to disobeyed God.
So they bring suffering upon themselves

 

[Trailblazer]

The ^ above ^ does Not match what we can learn from the Bible.
Scripture teaches that it is an un-known number of people who will be saved ( delivered / rescued ) through the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:9,14.
Thus, God does Not know how humans will turn out. The free-will choice is our to make.

God does know because God knows what free will choices we will make before we make them.

 

[Trailblazer]

we do not know how much suffering is going on by each...

That is a very good point. You are wise.

 

[Thief]

Why would an All-Loving God create a world that has so much suffering in it?

and a good parent shields children from all suffering?

you want to be treated like a spoiled brat?

but hey.....if you think life in THIS world is tough

wait til you meet the devil

 

[Thief]

God does know because God knows what free will choices we will make before we make them.

nay

He understands our nature
and we are fairly predictable

but He does not dictate

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

I would argue that if an All loving God who knows our fate can't exist with Free will.

I would also argue that if this God has a heaven and hell and determines where one goes on belief and not behavior than there's no free will.

I would also argue that a loving God who allow rape because free will is hypocrite because I know If I could prevent the rape of a love one and didn't how could I say I love that person?

I would also argue against free will in general.

 

[Thief]

I would argue that if an All loving God who knows our fate can't exist with Free will.

I would also argue that if this God has a heaven and hell and determines where one goes on belief and not behavior than there's no free will.

I would also argue that a loving God who allow rape because free will is hypocrite because I know If I could prevent the rape of a love one and didn't how could I say I love that person?

I would also argue against free will in general.

God gave Man dominion

are you not blaming God for what your fellowman would do?

 

[TheBannerofHomuraAkemi]

God gave Man dominion

are you not blaming God for what your fellowman would do?

No I'm not blaming God, I'm just pointing out the absurdity of God and apologist.

 

[Trailblazer]

My understanding on this point is that God’s Love cannot reach us if we don’t allow it to.

Love Me that i love the. If thou loves me not My love can in no wise reach ther - Baha’u’llah

This is a very deep topic for God’s Love also enables one to feel His love enough to know we are always loved and that everything in this world has been configured for our benefit as in ......

With all due respect, I do not understand how God's Love is relevant to the OP question. I cannot agree that even if we felt that God loved us that would end all our suffering.

Thus rejecting this wondrous system, man has created to a large extent his own demise. Even illnesses Abdul-Baha is said to have come about primarily through disobeying the commandments of God.

So who’s fault really is all this suffering?

Some suffering comes about by disobeying the commandments of God, but that is not the only suffering we have to endure:

“Some things are subject to the free will of man, such as justice, equity, tyranny and injustice, in other words, good and evil actions; it is evident and clear that these actions are, for the most part, left to the will of man. But there are certain things to which man is forced and compelled, such as sleep, death, sickness, decline of power, injuries and misfortunes; these are not subject to the will of man, and he is not responsible for them, for he is compelled to endure them. But in the choice of good and bad actions he is free, and he commits them according to his own will.” Some Answered Questions, p. 248

And WHY is man forced to endure them? Because God set it up that way and it is their fate.

Childbirth too is one of the most painful experiences one can have yet it is a bringer of joy not sadness. But as to millions who suffer it is I believe because of man’s unjust system and refusal to use God’s System that this suffering continues and will until we realise God’s ways are better than ours. When that will be nobody knows.

Childbirth lasts just a short time and then it is over. What about people who suffer most of their life all the time?
Even if we change man's unjust system and follow God's System, there will still be suffering in this world, because suffering is inherent in a material world, and this is the point I am trying to make; but so far all the believers refuse to see God's part in it. Who created the world that is a storehouse of suffering, man? No, God created it, knowing humans would suffer.

“Such is this mortal abode: a storehouse of afflictions and suffering. It is ignorance that binds man to it, for no comfort can be secured by any soul in this world, from monarch down to the most humble commoner. If once this life should offer a man a sweet cup, a hundred bitter ones will follow; such is the condition of this world. The wise man, therefore, doth not attach himself to this mortal life and doth not depend upon it; at some moments, even, he eagerly wisheth for death that he may thereby be freed from these sorrows and afflictions.” Selections, p. 200

 

[Trailblazer]

You really got to be kidding..
God didn't set anything up for suffering.

God sure as hell did, because God created the world KNOWING that people would suffer.
Don't waste your time trying to defend God because there is no defense.

Man/human beings brought all suffering up on themselves.. for disobeying God.

Oh no they did not because all suffering is NOT from disobeying God, it is from having to live life in this hellhole God created.

Had mankind obeyed God..there would be no suffering..
That even in our own world of to day..
People still chooses to disobeyed God.
So they bring suffering upon themselves

Sorry but no, even if man had obeyed God there would STILL be suffering, unless you think that nobody who obeys God ever suffers? Do no good Christians ever suffer? Get real and use your logical mind. We suffer mostly because this world was created for suffering. Some people escape most of the suffering because that was their fate, not because they did not sin. Others suffer most of their life not because they sinned or because they did not struggle, but because of the hand they were dealt, owing to genetics and childhood upbringing and adult life circumstances. Many things in to us life are not subject to the free will of man, and what is subject to free will is very circumscribed.

 

[Trailblazer]

and a good parent shields children from all suffering?

A good parent did not deliberately create an environment for a child knowing that child will suffer.

but hey.....if you think life in THIS world is tough

wait til you meet the devil

There is no devil.

 

[Trailblazer]

nay

He understands our nature
and we are fairly predictable

but He does not dictate

I did not say God dictates, I said He knows what we will choose.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I would argue that if an All loving God who knows our fate can't exist with Free will.
I would also argue that if this God has a heaven and hell and determines where one goes on belief and not behavior than there's no free will.
I would also argue that a loving God who allow rape because free will is hypocrite because I know If I could prevent the rape of a love one and didn't how could I say I love that person?
I would also argue against free will in general.

The Bible's God is ALL loving and He does Not know who will prove faithful and come through the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:19,14 . That is our free-will choice to make.
God's home address is Heaven 1st kings chapter 8
Biblical hell is just mankind's temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead:
( John 11:11-14; Psalms 115:17; Isaiah 38:18; Ecclesiastes 9:5 )
When the King James Bible translated the word Gehenna into English as hell fire that put the flames in hell.
Gehenna was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where things were destroyed forever .
This is why Psalms 92:7 says the wicked will be: destroyed forever .

God allows but does Not cause rape, etc.
Mankind disobeying God is the cause.
The reason we do Not 'ye't see divine involvement into mankind's affairs is because first Earth would have to be populated.
The passing of time gives us the opportunity to be born and think who we would like as Sovereign over us.
We are nearing the soon coming ' time of separation' to take place on Earth as per Matthew 25:31-33,37,40.
Only wicked people will be put to death - Isaiah 11:3-4; Revelation 19:14-16.

 

[Fool]

That is all true, but how is that related to my question in the OP?

The spirit has to be tested to know it's mettle. I know I became a better person because of it. What someone says and what someone does can only be known in the testing. Under pressure you see the true mettle. Not everyone called will be chosen. Thoughts without action are not realized. Give love.


Isaiah 48:10

 

[URAVIP2ME]

........., I said He knows what we will choose.

If God knows what we will choose then we are just robots, automatons.
We could Not love God of our own free will because God would be doing the choosing / thinking for us.
Thankfully the God of the Bible is Not like that, but what we do is of our own free-will choices.

 

[Trailblazer]

We have all experienced God's Unconditional Love. It is a Love that heals all hurt. It is a Love that feels so good, so complete, we would do anything for it. Perhaps, God's children are a bit spoiled and never want a challenge.

No, God's Love does not heal all hurt, because if it did there would be no hurt.
Never want a challenge? How about a lifetime of suffering? How many people do you think want that?

Existence or physical life does not come down to one mere lifetime. There is far too much to learn and Discover.

Existence in this physical world does come down to one mere lifetime, and that is one thing we can thank God for. After this life, what we discover will be in the spiritual world.

Adversity breeds invention. When times are good, we sit back and enjoy the ride. When adversity hits, we do something about it. WE learn so very much on the road to resolution. Look how much mankind has learned through, medicine, weather, psychology of human nature, geography, geology, and even disasters. WE are learning what it all means because we have to in order to find resolution.

I can agree about that, but if scientists were suffering all the time, they would not be able to invent anything.

People do die, Why??

Because God set it up that way.

People tend to take adversity personally. After enough, learning becomes impossible. This fact along with the different scenarios of lessons, an exit strategy is necessary. Learning and Growing means moving forward.

But there isn't always an exit strategy, and sometimes the exit is suicide.

God places a limit on pain. When the physical body encounters too much pain it goes into shock. Suddenly it doesn't hurt so bad. If a person gets too much mental stress, they start blocking it out mentally.

Not always, sometimes emotional pain just keeps coming and it cannot be blocked out.

Does it hurt when the ones we love die and move on? You bet. No one knows this more than I. The True Love of my life died of lung cancer and she never smoked in her life. Is there something to Learn?

Nobody knows it more than you do? How do you know that? How many loved ones have you lost, 30?

You do not know how other people feel unless you have walked a mile in their moccasins.

If I make it about me, I'll go down kicking and screaming. If I make it about her, how could I be so selfish to want to keep her from moving forward on her journey to perfection? Even though she is not around, she will always be with me and I know that throughout all eternity, our paths will cross again.

That might be true for people, but we do not know that it is true for animals.

A lady at work's husband died. She had all but given up on life. I had several talks with her. I finally got through when I asked: Do you think your true love would really want you giving up like this? If you had died first, would you want him giving up and living like that?

But her true love might appreciate that she cares enough to grieve for him instead of celebrating like someone just had a birthday.

There are many views one can choose. I do not cry that my True Love is gone. I cherish the wonderful times we did have together. It was Glorious. I would not be who I am today without that experience.

No, it is not a choice. Feelings just are. We have to deal with them and try to move on but it is not as easy for some as for others. Not everyone wants to think about the good times because that can cause even more pain. You are causing me pain right now.

Life is full of experiences. There is always more to come. Let's look forward for regardless of what happens, that is the direction we will end up going.

Yeah, let's look forward to more suffering.

Finally, we all have the power to choose what we value in life. If we choose to value the goodness and the Great things people do, we can nurture that into so much happiness, the bad will not matter. WE can join together and work at doing what God wants by working at Solving the world's problems, learning and growing in the process. Complaining might point a direction of a problem, however one must take the next step and work toward resolution.

Everyone is not like you. Not everyone can do what you do. There is not always a resolution. You live in a paper doll world.

WE are meant to solve the problems rather than expect God to fix it all for us.

I do not expect God to do squat. He never did and He never will. He is an absentee parent, just like the ones I grew up with.

 

[Trailblazer]

The spirit has to be tested to know it's mettle. I know I became a better person because of it. What someone says and what someone does can only be known in the testing. Under pressure you see the true mettle. Not everyone called will be chosen. Thoughts without action are not realized.

Isaiah 48:10 New International Version (NIV)
10 See, I have refined you, though not as silver;
I have tested you in the furnace of affliction.

You just made my point for me. Why does God have to test people under a furnace of affliction? How is that All-Loving?

It has to be tested because God set it up that way. We are just supposed to believe that.
What if people sink under the weight of the suffering, does that make them a bad person?
Some God you have there.

 

[Fool]

You just made my point for me. Why does God have to test people under a furnace of affliction? How is that All-Loving?

It has to be tested because God set it up that way. We are just supposed to believe that.
What if people sink under the weight of the suffering, does that make them a bad person?
Some God you have there.

the other is materialism. In the garden the choice was materialism or love. Love won

 

[Trailblazer]

the other is materialism. In the garden the choice was materialism or love. Love won

What garden?

 

[Fool]

What garden?

In the fall, the forgetting, love won.he who has all the toys wins but has no one to play with.