Why would an All-Loving God create a world that has so much suffering in it?

[Trailblazer]

OK.
God knows everything but doesn't interfere.

I agree,God does not interfere unless we pray and supplicate in which case God sometimes answers.

 

[Faithofchristian]

God sure as hell did, because God created the world KNOWING that people would suffer.
Don't waste your time trying to defend God because there is no defense.

Oh no they did not because all suffering is NOT from disobeying God, it is from having to live life in this hellhole God created.

Sorry but no, even if man had obeyed God there would STILL be suffering, unless you think that nobody who obeys God ever suffers? Do no good Christians ever suffer? Get real and use your logical mind. We suffer mostly because this world was created for suffering. Some people escape most of the suffering because that was their fate, not because they did not sin. Others suffer most of their life not because they sinned or because they did not struggle, but because of the hand they were dealt, owing to genetics and childhood upbringing and adult life circumstances. Many things in to us life are not subject to the free will of man, and what is subject to free will is very circumscribed.

As to how do you get that God knew the world would suffer...
As to where do you get this at...
Oh that's right.. man's teachings tell you that God is all knowing.....
But did you know.. there is no where written in the Bible where God said that he's all knowing...
Man's teaching say that God is all knowing...But God himself never said or claimed to be all knowing..

 

[Faithofchristian]

OK.
God knows everything but doesn't interfere.

God does not know everything...
That's Man's teachings..that say..God is all knowing...
God never said or claimed to be all knowing as man's teachings say God is all knowing..
There is not one book and not one verse in the Bible where God himself ever saying that he's all knowing..

 

[Faithofchristian]

God sure as hell did, because God created the world KNOWING that people would suffer.
Don't waste your time trying to defend God because there is no defense.

Oh no they did not because all suffering is NOT from disobeying God, it is from having to live life in this hellhole God created.

Sorry but no, even if man had obeyed God there would STILL be suffering, unless you think that nobody who obeys God ever suffers? Do no good Christians ever suffer? Get real and use your logical mind. We suffer mostly because this world was created for suffering. Some people escape most of the suffering because that was their fate, not because they did not sin. Others suffer most of their life not because they sinned or because they did not struggle, but because of the hand they were dealt, owing to genetics and childhood upbringing and adult life circumstances. Many things in to us life are not subject to the free will of man, and what is subject to free will is very circumscribed.

Can you give just one book in the Bible and chapter and verses.. where it's written at that God is all knowing...
That's Man's teachings that say God is all knowing..The bible never said that..
There is not one single book and chapter and verse that's written in the Bible..
saying that God is all knowing...
So where's your proof of evidence..

 

[Faithofchristian]

I fully agree. I am not advocating elimination of all suffering, just what causes extreme suffering. Unfortunately, death cannot be eliminated, and that is the worst. I do not know how that could have been avoided though, unless nobody new was ever born.

But one thing God could have done is be more definitive about what happens when we die, and what happens to animals when they die.

You have a point about why we watch. I like to see the murderers get caught and the sentence doled out because I like to see justice done.

Your answer was certainly more realistic than the others who responded on this thread so far.
Christians and even most Baha'is all have this dreamy notion of God.

That was my point, God created the world this was so ultimately God is responsible. One cannot deny that without being illogical.

I do not think God is evil, but I do not think God is nice. The circle of life is not nice. I don't know if there could have been another way, because I am not God, but it seems like an omnipotent/omniscient God could have done something less harsh.

But no, believers will tell you God is All-Loving because that is what they want to believe. Maybe the scriptures say God is Love, but they forgot to read the fine print about God's wrath because they do not like to think about reality.

If I may say....God's wrath does not in no way come upon his children..

There are two types of children in the world..
The Children of God and the Children of the Devil's.
When people makes the decision to be on the side of the Devil's then those people have become the children of the devil's..

Those that made the decision to be on the side of God's..then those people become the children of God's..

 

[Fool]

That is debatable and it depends upon what you have lost and whether you can get over the loss.

sure its debatable. but studies have already shown that babies that aren't nurtured by a parent suffer, some to the point of death.

but when we are connected by love that love remains with us; even when separated from those we love. i would suspect it is the physical aspect of touch, sight, smell, that the person is missing.



The lasting impact of neglect



we're a slave to love. there can be no peace, no rest until it's found. can you help me, please?


allahu akbar

 

[Fool]

That's true, but so what?
I am still lost because nobody has any answers that are logical, just a bunch of religious jargon and obfuscation in order to deny the fact that God cannot be All-Loving.

that fact remains, everyone is looking for love, looking for god. there are very few who understand the power of god they hold to give love.

that is why you are lost. you are searching for love. behold i have told you a mystery and when found all will be understood in the twinkling eyes. i am a servant of love. many will come from the east and the west to sit at the table and break bread with a friend.

 

[Thief]

A good parent did not deliberately create an environment for a child knowing that child will suffer.

There is no devil.

it was not a consideration.....the suffering

flesh suffers....
you need your pain

and reality bites hard

the next life can bite even harder

fear not the harm unto the flesh
rather you should fear the rendering of your soul

we are assembled
we can be torn apart

 

[BilliardsBall]

Why would an All-Loving God create a world that has so much suffering in it?

We cannot blame God for all the suffering in the world, because humans have free will so they are responsible for some of their own suffering, but clearly God set it up so we would suffer, and some people suffer so much more than others, often through no fault of their own. This happens because that was their fate, a fate determined by God. Some of that fate is impending and can be avoided but some of it is irrevocable so we are stuck with it no matter what we try to do to avoid it. I believe this because it is based upon my religious beliefs:

“Know thou, O fruit of My Tree, that the decrees of the Sovereign Ordainer, as related to fate and predestination, are of two kinds. Both are to be obeyed and accepted. The one is irrevocable, the other is, as termed by men, impending. To the former all must unreservedly submit, inasmuch as it is fixed and settled. God, however, is able to alter or repeal it. As the harm that must result from such a change will be greater than if the decree had remained unaltered, all, therefore, should willingly acquiesce in what God hath willed and confidently abide by the same.

The decree that is impending, however, is such that prayer and entreaty can succeed in averting it.

God grant that thou who art the fruit of My Tree, and they that are associated with thee, may be shielded from its evil consequences.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 133

Note that it says it “can succeed” not that it “will succeed.”

What that amounts to is that we are completely at the mercy of God.

Evil consequences do not sound like they are coming from an All-Loving God… What’s up with that?

I am sorry, but I cannot believe that God is All-Loving because of what I see in the world. Why would an All-Loving God create a world like this where some people suffer a lot and some people suffer hardly at all? How just is that?

The usual religious apologetic is that “we will know more in the afterlife” and that “all our suffering will be over in the afterlife,” but even if that is true, what good does that do us now? Not only has very little been revealed by God about that afterlife, but it has to be believed solely on faith.

Another religious apologetic is that “suffering makes us grow stronger,” and that might be true for some people, but not for all people. Aside from that, an omnipotent/omniscient God could have come up with a better way for us to grow stronger, Imo. Putting us through this torture chamber is not what I consider Loving. Of course, I do not expect people who have not suffered much and have been happy most of their lives to understand what I am saying. It is probably very easy for them to see God as All-Loving.

I am sure there will be the people who say they have suffered a lot but they still believe God is All-Loving. I am waiting to hear from them. Please bear in mind that what they call suffering might not have been so bad, and they have no way of knowing the suffering that other people have endured. As far as I am concerned the worst suffering anyone can endure is loss of a loved one, human or animal, another great part of God’s design. This might be a test, as in the Story of Job, but I cannot consider a God who does this to people en masse “Loving.”

Some people might say that death of a loved one is no big deal but nobody can understand the suffering of anyone else unless they have walked a mile in their moccasins.

I'll give you the non-usual apologetic then:

I will curse God for causing suffering in the world as soon as skeptics praise Him for all the joy, beauty and pleasure in the world.

 

[Vee]

Why would an All-Loving God create a world that has so much suffering in it?

We cannot blame God for all the suffering in the world, because humans have free will so they are responsible for some of their own suffering, but clearly God set it up so we would suffer, and some people suffer so much more than others, often through no fault of their own. This happens because that was their fate, a fate determined by God. .

God didn't create suffering and he gave us everything we needed to live beautiful lives, full of good experiences and no pain.
Humans are to blame for most of the suffering. Who makes wars? Who steals? Who engages in all sort of immoral acts with no regard for the consequences? Who pollutes the planet? Who's greedy and corrupt? Not God.
You can however ask why god allows the suffering. He could have ended it a long time ago, so why didn't he do something about it so far?
According to the Bible, God's authority was challenged. Humans decided to be independent from God and do whatever they wanted. God could have fixed the problem immediately, but that would have left the question unanswered: are humans capable of managing their own lives without God's guidance? He decided to give our species a chance to prove the point, by allowing us to be independent for a period of time. I would say that we failed miserably and we desperately need God to come saves us from ourselves.

 

[Kenny]

I provided some documentation for my beliefs.
What do you think is true and what do you think is false?

This, of course, is strictly with the viewpoint established by a Christian perspective.

God created everything good and gave full authority and all that He created to man. Man opened the proverbial "pandora's box" as he handed the authority over to Satan, the thief who comes but to steal, kill and destroy.

 

[shmogie]

No, God gave man free will so God knew there would be evil.
Of course God is omniscient. You cannot just make up doctrines that disagree with the Bible.
God is Omniscient
What Does the Bible Say About Omniscience?
14 Bible verses about God, Omniscience Of

The Bible teaches that God is all-knowing or omniscient. The word "omniscient" comes from two Latin words omnis signifying all, and scientia signifying knowledge. When we say that God is omniscient it means that He has perfect knowledge of all things. He does not have to learn anything and He has not forgotten anything. God does not have to reason things out, find out things, or learn them gradually. He knows everything that has happened and everything that will happen. God also knows every potential thing that might happen. God even knows those things that humankind has yet to discover. This knowledge is absolute and unacquired. The omniscience of God means that He has perfect knowledge, perfect understanding, and perfect wisdom as to how to apply the knowledge.
Does God Know Everything? (Omniscient)

No, it is not, because God created a world in which humans would suffer, often not by virtue of any free will decisions they made. Accidents and injuries and diseases, natural disasters, these are not choices people make.

True, some suffering is caused by free will decisions not to believe in or obey God, but all suffering is not the result of that.

It will get better but it will never completely end as long as humans live in a material world which is a storehouse of suffering. It will only end when we die and go to the spiritual world, and then only if we played our cards right in this world.

I haven't made up a doctrine, Many prominent Bible scholars hold to this doctrine.

People have been taught to believe one position, and many simply refuse to consider another. This attitude precludes them from seeing the Bible verses in a different way, and their objective thinking ceases to exist.

God did not create a world as you describe it.

He created a world in perfect harmony, and pain, suffering, depression, disease, death did not exist.

It became as it is because humanity chose to join a rebellion in what you call "the spiritual world"

God will remake the world as He intended to be. Those who died in harmony with Him will be resurrected in a glorified physical body to ultimately live on the earth, a material earth.

 

[Trailblazer]

As to how do you get that God knew the world would suffer...
As to where do you get this at...
Oh that's right.. man's teachings tell you that God is all knowing.....
But did you know.. there is no where written in the Bible where God said that he's all knowing...
Man's teaching say that God is all knowing...

I can barely believe my eyes, more than one Christian on this thread has said that God is not All-Knowing.
What is the basis for such a belief?

The Bible teaches that God is All-Knowing.

God is Omniscient
What Does the Bible Say About Omniscience?
14 Bible verses about God, Omniscience Of

The Bible teaches that God is all-knowing or omniscient. The word "omniscient" comes from two Latin words omnis signifying all, and scientia signifying knowledge. When we say that God is omniscient it means that He has perfect knowledge of all things. He does not have to learn anything and He has not forgotten anything. God does not have to reason things out, find out things, or learn them gradually. He knows everything that has happened and everything that will happen. God also knows every potential thing that might happen. God even knows those things that humankind has yet to discover. This knowledge is absolute and unacquired. The omniscience of God means that He has perfect knowledge, perfect understanding, and perfect wisdom as to how to apply the knowledge.
Does God Know Everything? (Omniscient)

But God himself never said or claimed to be all knowing.

God never said or claimed anything. All you have in the Bible is people claiming to speak for God, and they say that God is All-Knowing, as is indicated on the links above.

 

[Trailblazer]

Can you give just one book in the Bible and chapter and verses.. where it's written at that God is all knowing...
That's Man's teachings that say God is all knowing..The bible never said that..
There is not one single book and chapter and verse that's written in the Bible..
saying that God is all knowing...
So where's your proof of evidence..

It is all throughout the Bible. Here are just a few links I found quickly:

God is Omniscient

What Does the Bible Say About Omniscience?

14 Bible verses about God, Omniscience Of

The Bible teaches that God is all-knowing or omniscient. The word "omniscient" comes from two Latin words omnis signifying all, and scientia signifying knowledge. When we say that God is omniscient it means that He has perfect knowledge of all things. He does not have to learn anything and He has not forgotten anything. God does not have to reason things out, find out things, or learn them gradually. He knows everything that has happened and everything that will happen. God also knows every potential thing that might happen. God even knows those things that humankind has yet to discover. This knowledge is absolute and unacquired. The omniscience of God means that He has perfect knowledge, perfect understanding, and perfect wisdom as to how to apply the knowledge.

Does God Know Everything? (Omniscient)

 

[Trailblazer]

If I may say....God's wrath does not in no way come upon his children..

There are two types of children in the world..
The Children of God and the Children of the Devil's.
When people makes the decision to be on the side of the Devil's then those people have become the children of the devil's..

Those that made the decision to be on the side of God's..then those people become the children of God's..

I am a Baha'i so I do not believe in the devil. I believe that Satan as mentioned in the Bible is an allegory and refers to the lower selfish sinful material nature of man, which we call "the satanic self." That is what we have to fight against, not some imaginary devil.

It is an easy way out to blame the devil for everything that is wrong in the world, instead of taking personal responsibility. It is also the easy way out to wait for Jesus to return instead of trying to fix what is wrong in the world.

It is so simplistic to divide humanity into two categories, children of God and children of the devil.
I do not wonder why there are atheists. I would join them if I had not found a rational religion to believe in.

The wrath of God comes upon all alike, there is no protection from it since God makes no distinctions. The devil has no children because the devil does not exist, and God has no children because God is not a human being.

 

[Trailblazer]

sure its debatable. but studies have already shown that babies that aren't nurtured by a parent suffer, some to the point of death.

but when we are connected by love that love remains with us; even when separated from those we love. i would suspect it is the physical aspect of touch, sight, smell, that the person is missing.

The lasting impact of neglect

I know that only too well from my own childhood. That is why I try to love everyone and I would never abandon anyone I think might want my help.

we're a slave to love. there can be no peace, no rest until it's found. can you help me, please?

I do not believe we have to be a slave to love unless we are selfish. I consider it wholly selfish to want to be loved. That is not a teaching of Jesus, Jesus taught that we should love others as ourselves. My religion upped the ante and says that we should prefer our brother to ourselves.

The main problems we have in this world is because most people are selfish. They seek love instead of seeking to love others.

 

[Trailblazer]

that fact remains, everyone is looking for love, looking for god. there are very few who understand the power of god they hold to give love.

And how exactly does God do that, given God is nowhere to be found?

that is why you are lost. you are searching for love. behold i have told you a mystery and when found all will be understood in the twinkling eyes. i am a servant of love. many will come from the east and the west to sit at the table and break bread with a friend.

No, I am not searching for love for myself, I am searching for peace so I am well enough to love others.

Imo, one of the biggest problems with many Christians is that they seek the love of God and all they think about is BEING loved by God and Jesus, rather than thinking about other people who need love. "God loves me, Jesus loves me"... Something is wrong with that because it is selfish. Jesus would be aghast.

 

[Trailblazer]

I'll give you the non-usual apologetic then:

I will curse God for causing suffering in the world as soon as skeptics praise Him for all the joy, beauty and pleasure in the world.

You have a valid point. If God is responsible for suffering, God is also responsible for joy. That is logic 101 stuff.
As my husband likes to say, God is responsible for everything in existence.

 

[Trailblazer]

God didn't create suffering and he gave us everything we needed to live beautiful lives, full of good experiences and no pain.
Humans are to blame for most of the suffering. Who makes wars? Who steals? Who engages in all sort of immoral acts with no regard for the consequences? Who pollutes the planet? Who's greedy and corrupt? Not God.
You can however ask why god allows the suffering. He could have ended it a long time ago, so why didn't he do something about it so far?
According to the Bible, God's authority was challenged. Humans decided to be independent from God and do whatever they wanted. God could have fixed the problem immediately, but that would have left the question unanswered: are humans capable of managing their own lives without God's guidance? He decided to give our species a chance to prove the point, by allowing us to be independent for a period of time. I would say that we failed miserably and we desperately need God to come saves us from ourselves.

You are correct in saying that humans are to blame for most of the suffering, but that does not get God off the hook, because God created a world in which He knew we would suffer and many people suffer through no fault of their own.

This world would never have been a paradise even if everyone had obeyed God because it is fraught with disease and accidents and injuries and natural disasters, and human free will is very constrained so people cannot always change the life circumstances they find themselves in. In many instances, suffering is not their fault, it was just their fate to suffer, a fate God determined ahead of time. It might also be a test from God but when this is done repeatedly and consistently, I cannot consider that God All-Loving because that does not comply with logic.

 

[Trailblazer]

This, of course, is strictly with the viewpoint established by a Christian perspective.

God created everything good and gave full authority and all that He created to man. Man opened the proverbial "pandora's box" as he handed the authority over to Satan, the thief who comes but to steal, kill and destroy.

God created everything good, what does that mean? The creation itself might have been all good, but suffering is unavoidable in the physical world God created, so we are back to square one.

I do not believe in an actual being called Satan, but rather that Satan as mentioned in the Bible is an allegory which represents the lower selfish material nature of man which fights with the higher spiritual nature of man. Baha'u'llah referred to that as "the satanic self" and it is akin to the thief who comes but to steal, kill and destroy the spiritual nature of man.

But let me pretend I believe there is a Satan as you believe. How does that get God off the hook for creating a material world in which God knew humans would suffer; not because of sin, but because of the nature of the material world itself, which is fraught with accidents, diseases, and natural disasters, not to mention the free will decisions of evil people that affect innocent people. How can you blame Satan for a world that God created?

My next question is why would an All-Loving God hand authority over to Satan if God knew what Satan would do?

I am sure you have Bible verses that you believe support this belief, but posting them would probably only open up a Pandora's Box.