Why would an All-Loving God create a world that has so much suffering in it?

[Bird123]

No, God's Love does not heal all hurt, because if it did there would be no hurt.
Never want a challenge? How about a lifetime of suffering? How many people do you think want that?

Existence in this physical world does come down to one mere lifetime, and that is one thing we can thank God for. After this life, what we discover will be in the spiritual world.

I can agree about that, but if scientists were suffering all the time, they would not be able to invent anything.

Because God set it up that way.

But there isn't always an exit strategy, and sometimes the exit is suicide.

Not always, sometimes emotional pain just keeps coming and it cannot be blocked out.

Nobody knows it more than you do? How do you know that? How many loved ones have you lost, 30?

You do not know how other people feel unless you have walked a mile in their moccasins.

That might be true for people, but we do not know that it is true for animals.

But her true love might appreciate that she cares enough to grieve for him instead of celebrating like someone just had a birthday.

No, it is not a choice. Feelings just are. We have to deal with them and try to move on but it is not as easy for some as for others. Not everyone wants to think about the good times because that can cause even more pain. You are causing me pain right now.

Yeah, let's look forward to more suffering.

Everyone is not like you. Not everyone can do what you do. There is not always a resolution. You live in a paper doll world.

I do not expect God to do squat. He never did and He never will. He is an absentee parent, just like the ones I grew up with.

What a person believes is often what a person becomes. There are so many things you have yet to Discover. When you say feelings are just feelings and there are no choices, this is your excuse to do nothing. Choices come with everything.

Are you Happy? Do you even know what Happiness really is? Happiness is no more than a Choice. When you understand this, you will always be Happy regardless.

If you think God's love does not heal all hurt or if you want to see God through God's reflection, look into the eyes of a very young child. They have recently left God's arms. The Truth stares you in the face.

There is a waitress who always managed to get all the tips. People said they can't help but tip her because she is so happy and it rubs off on them.

Someone asked this waitress how she can be so happy all the time. Doesn't she have troubles too? The waitress replied: On the days I do not feel happy, I pretend I'm happy and before you know it I become happy.

One's focus makes a big difference. This is a choice. Do we focus only on the negative, complaining and fussing, spreading a cloud of hurt and gloom over others OR do we do as the waitress does? Which is the better choice? Which is the better choice for all around us? Remember, what you give the world is going to return. It is a Lesson for us all to Learn. It's never too late to change.

You speak of suffering. Did I ever tell you about that man who was badly crippled? He chose to change the lives of everyone around him with not only his attitude but with the Unconditional Love he spread to those around him. Magnificent!! How could one ever choose to focus on the negative when so much of the Love and Kindness was demonstrated so well. What goodness do you think returns to him? Does he feel any pain?? You bet, however he doesn't value it or hold onto it for dear life as so many do.

God does hear it all. God is doing much more than you realize. On the other hand, the lessons within your journey are up to you to learn. No one can do it for you.

You are stubborn and headstrong. If you choose to do the same thing, how can you expect different results? What are you missing? All the secrets stare us all in the face.

The first thing God pointed out to me is that mankind carries such a narrow view. I cry that! I work on mine everyday. Perhaps, it's time to widen yours and Discover what you are missing. It can all change before your eyes.

Religion spreads negativity, hate and evil when they say everything is a mess. They do not have a clue either. Perhaps it's time to venture into undiscovered country and Discover the Higher Level we are all capable of reaching.

That's what I see. It's very clear!!

 

[Trailblazer]

What a person believes is often what a person becomes. There are so many things you have yet to Discover. When you say feelings are just feelings and there are no choices, this is your excuse to do nothing. Choices come with everything.

When did I say there are no choices? A person can have feelings and still make choices. I do it constantly.

Are you Happy? Do you even know what Happiness really is? Happiness is no more than a Choice. When you understand this, you will always be Happy regardless.

I do not seek personal happiness because I consider it vain and empty and selfish. I seek to help others and whenever I can do that I am happy.

If you think God's love does not heal all hurt or if you want to see God through God's reflection, look into the eyes of a very young child. They have recently left God's arms. The Truth stares you in the face.

You live in a fantasy about God's Love healing all the hurt, but that is because you need to believe that.

There is a waitress who always managed to get all the tips. People said they can't help but tip her because she is so happy and it rubs off on them.

Someone asked this waitress how she can be so happy all the time. Doesn't she have troubles too? The waitress replied: On the days I do not feel happy, I pretend I'm happy and before you know it I become happy.

What a farce. I am not going to pretend to be happy when I am not happy, that is dishonest.
People like you only accept people who are happy all the time because it is threatening to them to think that some people are sad, so you try to fix it with your magic formula as if you have that capability.

It is because of people like you who expect everyone to be happy even when they aren't that I cannot socialize with people. How utterly selfish to expect everyone to be happy just because you are, how self-centered. Then you judge people who are not happy as if they have some kind of character defect. No religion teaches this, and this is what results when one rejects religion and thinks they know more than God's Messengers.

One's focus makes a big difference. This is a choice. Do we focus only on the negative, complaining and fussing, spreading a cloud of hurt and gloom over others OR do we do as the waitress does? Which is the better choice? Which is the better choice for all around us? Remember, what you give the world is going to return. It is a Lesson for us all to Learn. It's never too late to change.

Don't worry, I won't be spreading any doom and gloom around you. I will be talking to my atheist friends when I am sad because they have compassion and they do not judge me.

Grief is not a choice. Let me know when you get your degree in psychology or stop trying to practice it. I have an MA in Psychology and a counseling license, but I do not go around telling people on forums "how it is for them" and "what they need to do."

You speak of suffering. Did I ever tell you about that man who was badly crippled? He chose to change the lives of everyone around him with not only his attitude but with the Unconditional Love he spread to those around him. Magnificent!! How could one ever choose to focus on the negative when so much of the Love and Kindness was demonstrated so well. What goodness do you think returns to him? Does he feel any pain?? You bet, however he doesn't value it or hold onto it for dear life as so many do.

Why compare people to other people? Being crippled physically is nothing compared to what some people have endure their whole life, mentally and emotionally. People do not commit suicide because they are crippled.

Value it or hold onto it for dear life as so many do? How utterly judgmental. How do you know people value suffering or hold onto it for dear life? Are you God?

God does hear it all. God is doing much more than you realize. On the other hand, the lessons within your journey are up to you to learn. No one can do it for you.

I know God hears it all and sees it all, but I do not know what God is doing, nobody does.

You are stubborn and headstrong. If you choose to do the same thing, how can you expect different results? What are you missing? All the secrets stare us all in the face.

You live with the illusion that everyone has complete free will, but they don't.
How do you know that I choose the same things? How do you know what I am missing? How do you know I am not getting something you are missing?

The first thing God pointed out to me is that mankind carries such a narrow view. I cry that! I work on mine everyday. Perhaps, it's time to widen yours and Discover what you are missing. It can all change before your eyes.

God did not point anything out to you because God does not communicate to ordinary humans.
What God pointed out to His Messenger is to remember your own faults and not the faults of others, inasmuch as everyone knows his own self better than he knows others.

Religion spreads negativity, hate and evil when they say everything is a mess. They do not have a clue either. Perhaps it's time to venture into undiscovered country and Discover the Higher Level we are all capable of reaching.

There is no Higher Level than religion because it comes from God. True religion does not spread hate and evil, it spreads love and goodness. If you took your head out of the sand you would see that everything in the world is a mess. Why is it that most everyone else on this forum can see it but you?

 

[gnomon]

Why do people keep confusing religion and notions about God with cultural beliefs?

There is no "true religion". Never was.

Religion is not about God. Never was. Never will be.

 

[frbnsn]

God does not know everything...
That's Man's teachings..that say..God is all knowing...
God never said or claimed to be all knowing as man's teachings say God is all knowing..
There is not one book and not one verse in the Bible where God himself ever saying that he's all knowing..

The Bible may not say this, but God, by definition, should know everything, right?

 

[Faithofchristian]

The Bible may not say this, but God, by definition, should know everything, right?

Nope as there is no where in the Bible that states God as being all knowing...
That's Man's teachings...that teaches God as being all knowing..

 

[Faithofchristian]

I am a Baha'i so I do not believe in the devil. I believe that Satan as mentioned in the Bible is an allegory and refers to the lower selfish sinful material nature of man, which we call "the satanic self." That is what we have to fight against, not some imaginary devil.

It is an easy way out to blame the devil for everything that is wrong in the world, instead of taking personal responsibility. It is also the easy way out to wait for Jesus to return instead of trying to fix what is wrong in the world.

It is so simplistic to divide humanity into two categories, children of God and children of the devil.
I do not wonder why there are atheists. I would join them if I had not found a rational religion to believe in.

The wrath of God comes upon all alike, there is no protection from it since God makes no distinctions. The devil has no children because the devil does not exist, and God has no children because God is not a human being.

Stay Tune..we are not that far away from Jesus Christ returns...we are the last generation that will witness the return of Jesus Christ..Stay Tune

 

[Faithofchristian]

It is all throughout the Bible. Here are just a few links I found quickly:

God is Omniscient

What Does the Bible Say About Omniscience?

14 Bible verses about God, Omniscience Of

The Bible teaches that God is all-knowing or omniscient. The word "omniscient" comes from two Latin words omnis signifying all, and scientia signifying knowledge. When we say that God is omniscient it means that He has perfect knowledge of all things. He does not have to learn anything and He has not forgotten anything. God does not have to reason things out, find out things, or learn them gradually. He knows everything that has happened and everything that will happen. God also knows every potential thing that might happen. God even knows those things that humankind has yet to discover. This knowledge is absolute and unacquired. The omniscience of God means that He has perfect knowledge, perfect understanding, and perfect wisdom as to how to apply the knowledge.

Does God Know Everything? (Omniscient)

There is no where in the Bible that states God as being all knowing..
You will not even find the word
(Omniscient) in the Bible.
I have reading studying the Bible for about
54 years and have as yet to find any where that God as being all knowing..
Even the word ( Omniscient). As you claim..
As I ask for book of the Bible and chapter and verses as to where God States that he's all knowing..

 

[Faithofchristian]

It is all throughout the Bible. Here are just a few links I found quickly:

God is Omniscient

What Does the Bible Say About Omniscience?

14 Bible verses about God, Omniscience Of

The Bible teaches that God is all-knowing or omniscient. The word "omniscient" comes from two Latin words omnis signifying all, and scientia signifying knowledge. When we say that God is omniscient it means that He has perfect knowledge of all things. He does not have to learn anything and He has not forgotten anything. God does not have to reason things out, find out things, or learn them gradually. He knows everything that has happened and everything that will happen. God also knows every potential thing that might happen. God even knows those things that humankind has yet to discover. This knowledge is absolute and unacquired. The omniscience of God means that He has perfect knowledge, perfect understanding, and perfect wisdom as to how to apply the knowledge.

Does God Know Everything? (Omniscient)

It's not all throughout the Bible as you claim.. if it was in the Bible I would haved found it during my 54 years of studying the Bible..
Therefore you cannot produce one book of the Bible nor one chapter or verses to back up your claim.
As you showed.. in all that you said...
you produce not one single book or chapter or verses of the bible...that in it's self speaks for itself.

 

[Faithofchristian]

I can barely believe my eyes, more than one Christian on this thread has said that God is not All-Knowing.
What is the basis for such a belief?

The Bible teaches that God is All-Knowing.

God is Omniscient
What Does the Bible Say About Omniscience?
14 Bible verses about God, Omniscience Of

The Bible teaches that God is all-knowing or omniscient. The word "omniscient" comes from two Latin words omnis signifying all, and scientia signifying knowledge. When we say that God is omniscient it means that He has perfect knowledge of all things. He does not have to learn anything and He has not forgotten anything. God does not have to reason things out, find out things, or learn them gradually. He knows everything that has happened and everything that will happen. God also knows every potential thing that might happen. God even knows those things that humankind has yet to discover. This knowledge is absolute and unacquired. The omniscience of God means that He has perfect knowledge, perfect understanding, and perfect wisdom as to how to apply the knowledge.
Does God Know Everything? (Omniscient)

God never said or claimed anything. All you have in the Bible is people claiming to speak for God, and they say that God is All-Knowing, as is indicated on the links above.

As there are many places in the Bible that plainly shows that God is not all knowing..

Now man's teachings that will tell you
God is all knowing...but God himself never said that he's all knowing...
I myself have come across many Christians that will say to me..that God is all knowing...but when I ask them to produce in the Bible one chapter and verses as to where it's written at that God as being all knowing...they can't and why not because it's not there.... because it all comes down to man's teachings..that will say God is all knowing...

And in case you didn't know...
Jesus Christ himself condemned man's teachings in Matthew 15 7-9.

7--"You hypocrites, well did Esaias prophesy of you, saying,

8 This people draweth nigh unto me with their mouth, and honoureth me with their lips; but their heart is far from me.

9 But in vain they do worship me, teaching for doctrines the commandments of men.

Therefore you have Jesus Christ himself condemned man's teachings.

 

[loverofhumanity]

With all due respect, I do not think that works across the board, and even if it is true for some people, it still begs the question why an All-Loving God would allow as much suffering as He allows and why there could not have been another way for us to acquire perfections.

I know all people suffer some, but some people suffer a lot more than others. This whole Baha'i idea that we should be grateful to have more suffering is really out of whack; in fact it is indicative of someone with a psychological problem.

I know you have suffered and that led you to the Faith, but I doubt you have suffered as much as I have, which is my entire life. If you had, you would not be attending Baha'i activities and having social gatherings at your house. You have no idea, only my husband and God know what I have endured and still endure. Am I better off for it, not being able to attend any Baha'i activities or interact like a normal person in society? Am I better off not being able to interact with anyone except on forums? Is this going to be the rest of my life?

I think religious people need to get past their scriptures and their pat answers and look at the human beings they are talking to. Something is surely wrong with religious believers when the only two people who offer me empathy and compassion are atheists.

Nobody can ever know what others have to endure unless they have walked a mile in their moccasins. I am sure God knows my suffering, but that does not really help me just knowing that.

I don’t know what type of suffering you’re referring to but God cannot force us to love each other. He continually sends Educators Who’s main message centres around love but then it’s up to us. Isn’t attending activities up to you? I meet many people and some I become close with and others just a hello but it’s always my choice. I am unaware of your situation but am willing to try and empathise.

 

[Link]

Error handling for our evil. That's all it comes down to. If we came to the Kings appointed by God, there would be no suffering. If we come the Mahdi, there will be no suffering.

 

[1213]

Why would an All-Loving God create a world that has so much suffering in it?

If you read the Bible, everything was good at the beginning. And then people wanted to know evil and were expelled to this first death. Here we can learn what evil truly means. Luckily this is only a short lesson and those who are righteous can go back to life after this.

So, the reason for all evil is that people wanted to know it. Luckily this is like the Matrix (in the movie Matrix). Nothing of this can destroy our soul, which is in safe. Obviously, suffering is not nice, but that is something we have to learn to know, because people wanted it. I hope you learn well what is good and want to do what is good.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

Therefore I tell you, don't be anxious for your life, what you will eat, nor yet for your body, what you will wear. Life is more than food, and the body is more than clothing. Consider the ravens: they don't sow, they don't reap, they have no warehouse or barn, and God feeds them. How much more valuable are you than birds! Which of you by being anxious can add a cubit to his height? If then you aren't able to do even the least things, why are you anxious about the rest? Consider the lilies, how they grow. They don't toil, neither do they spin; yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. But if this is how God clothes the grass in the field, which today exists, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, how much more will he clothe you, O you of little faith? Don't seek what you will eat or what you will drink; neither be anxious. For the nations of the world seek after all of these things, but your Father knows that you need these things. But seek God's Kingdom, and all these things will be added to you.
Luke 12:22-31

 

[Milton Platt]

Why would an All-Loving God create a world that has so much suffering in it?

We cannot blame God for all the suffering in the world, because humans have free will so they are responsible for some of their own suffering, but clearly God set it up so we would suffer, and some people suffer so much more than others, often through no fault of their own. This happens because that was their fate, a fate determined by God. Some of that fate is impending and can be avoided but some of it is irrevocable so we are stuck with it no matter what we try to do to avoid it. I believe this because it is based upon my religious beliefs:

“Know thou, O fruit of My Tree, that the decrees of the Sovereign Ordainer, as related to fate and predestination, are of two kinds. Both are to be obeyed and accepted. The one is irrevocable, the other is, as termed by men, impending. To the former all must unreservedly submit, inasmuch as it is fixed and settled. God, however, is able to alter or repeal it. As the harm that must result from such a change will be greater than if the decree had remained unaltered, all, therefore, should willingly acquiesce in what God hath willed and confidently abide by the same.

The decree that is impending, however, is such that prayer and entreaty can succeed in averting it.

God grant that thou who art the fruit of My Tree, and they that are associated with thee, may be shielded from its evil consequences.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 133

Note that it says it “can succeed” not that it “will succeed.”

What that amounts to is that we are completely at the mercy of God.

Evil consequences do not sound like they are coming from an All-Loving God… What’s up with that?

I am sorry, but I cannot believe that God is All-Loving because of what I see in the world. Why would an All-Loving God create a world like this where some people suffer a lot and some people suffer hardly at all? How just is that?

The usual religious apologetic is that “we will know more in the afterlife” and that “all our suffering will be over in the afterlife,” but even if that is true, what good does that do us now? Not only has very little been revealed by God about that afterlife, but it has to be believed solely on faith.

Another religious apologetic is that “suffering makes us grow stronger,” and that might be true for some people, but not for all people. Aside from that, an omnipotent/omniscient God could have come up with a better way for us to grow stronger, Imo. Putting us through this torture chamber is not what I consider Loving. Of course, I do not expect people who have not suffered much and have been happy most of their lives to understand what I am saying. It is probably very easy for them to see God as All-Loving.

I am sure there will be the people who say they have suffered a lot but they still believe God is All-Loving. I am waiting to hear from them. Please bear in mind that what they call suffering might not have been so bad, and they have no way of knowing the suffering that other people have endured. As far as I am concerned the worst suffering anyone can endure is loss of a loved one, human or animal, another great part of God’s design. This might be a test, as in the Story of Job, but I cannot consider a God who does this to people en masse “Loving.”

Some people might say that death of a loved one is no big deal but nobody can understand the suffering of anyone else unless they have walked a mile in their moccasins.

It can and has been debated whether there is truly free will, but be that as it may, let's assume it actually exists for the purpose of this thread.
Is god omniscient...does he know the future from the beginning and is he aware of the consequences of all of his actions and decisions?
Did god decide to give humans free will?
Was he aware of the consequences of this decision?
If yes to both, then he is responsible for the outcome. It means he was aware that doing this would lead to the outcomes we observe and chose to have those outcomes occur.

 

[Link]

It can and has been debated whether there is truly free will, but be that as it may, let's assume it actually exists for the purpose of this thread.
Is god omniscient...does he know the future from the beginning and is he aware of the consequences of all of his actions and decisions?
Did god decide to give humans free will?
Was he aware of the consequences of this decision?
If yes to both, then he is responsible for the outcome. It means he was aware that doing this would lead to the outcomes we observe and chose to have those outcomes occur.

You are right, it's only God's elite that he knows their past before it occurs and their future before it occurs, would be, generally the straight path (minus a few slips here and there). God doesn't know the future, not because he is ignorant, but because it's impossible.

 

[Milton Platt]

You are right, it's only God's elite that he knows their past before it occurs and their future before it occurs, would be, generally the straight path (minus a few slips here and there). God doesn't know the future, not because he is ignorant, but because it's impossible.

Evidence, please....and not just quotes from old books.

 

[Link]

Evidence, please....and not just quotes from old books.

It's impossibility is evident. How can you know the future, when only the presents exists, and it's yet to be passed through?

 

[viole]

I completely agree with your sentiments, but I am stuck believing in God because I do, so I am just trying to make sense out of this whole mess.

You remind me of those guys who insisted that the earth was at the center of the universe and tried to make sense of all those weird and messy planet trajectories.

until someone showed how removing that premise, made everything much simpler. And compelling.

ciao

- viole

 

[Trailblazer]

Stay Tune..we are not that far away from Jesus Christ returns...we are the last generation that will witness the return of Jesus Christ..Stay Tune

We are really far away, since Jesus is not going to return, ever. He has no reason to return, since He finished the world God gave Him to do.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Jesus said He was no more in the world; what about that do Christians NOT understand? Why are they still waiting?

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Nowhere in the Bible did Jesus EVER promise to return to earth. I know that because I have been posting to a Christian on my forum for over five years and he has never been able to come up with even one Bible verse where Jesus promises to return to earth.

 

[Trailblazer]

There is no where in the Bible that states God as being all knowing..
You will not even find the word (Omniscient) in the Bible.
I have reading studying the Bible for about 54 years and have as yet to find any where that God as being all knowing.
Even the word ( Omniscient). As you claim.

Of course God is All-Knowing. God would not be God if He did not know everything.

Even if the word “omniscient” does not appear in the Bible, it is implied all throughout the Bible, OT and NT.

As I ask for book of the Bible and chapter and verses as to where God States that he's all knowing..

As I said before, God does not state anything in the Bible. The Bible was written by men who were inspired by the Holy Spirit, but that is not the same thing as God stating it Himself.

 

[Trailblazer]

It's not all throughout the Bible as you claim.. if it was in the Bible I would haved found it during my 54 years of studying the Bible..
Therefore you cannot produce one book of the Bible nor one chapter or verses to back up your claim.
As you showed.. in all that you said...
you produce not one single book or chapter or verses of the bible...that in it's self speaks for itself.

It is all throughout the Bible.
Why would Christians believe that God is omniscient if it was not in the Bible?

It is absurd to say that God is not omniscient. That would be demoting God to the level of a human being. Of course, Jesus was not All-Knowing, because ONLY God is All-Knowing, and that is one way of many ways we know that Jesus was NOT God.

Matthew 24:36 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the Son, but the Father only.

Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

God has perfect knowledge of everything in existence, because God is perfect.

God knows everything that has ever happened, is happening, or will ever happen because the essential knowledge of God surrounds the realities of all things in existence, before, during and after their existence in this contingent realm. There is NOTHING God does not know about this world or the universe which He created.

Just think of the logical implications of God NOT being All-Knowing. If God was not All-Knowing that would mean that humans could know something God does not know, and if humans could know something God does not know, then that would mean there would be no reason to trust God or have faith that God knows more than we do, so God knows what is best for us. That would mean we could question the judgment of God like we might question the judgment of another human being.