Why would an All-Loving God create a world that has so much suffering in it?

[Trailblazer]

As there are many places in the Bible that plainly shows that God is not all knowing.

Please present the verses.

Now man's teachings that will tell you
God is all knowing...but God himself never said that he's all knowing...

As I already told you, God Himself never SAID anything in the Bible. God spoke to Jesus who spoke to His disciples and then much later other men wrote down what could be remembered of the utterances of Jesus.

I myself have come across many Christians that will say to me..that God is all knowing...but when I ask them to produce in the Bible one chapter and verses as to where it's written at that God as being all knowing...they can't and why not because it's not there.... because it all comes down to man's teachings..that will say God is all knowing...

No, it is the Bible that says that God is All-Knowing.

 

[Trailblazer]

I don’t know what type of suffering you’re referring to but God cannot force us to love each other. He continually sends Educators Who’s main message centres around love but then it’s up to us.

I do not know how you got off on that tangent. The OP is not about humans loving each other, it is about why an All-Loving God would create a world with so much suffering. Humans loving each other is not a solution to all suffering.

Isn’t attending activities up to you? I meet many people and some I become close with and others just a hello but it’s always my choice. I am unaware of your situation but am willing to try and empathise.

Attending Baha’i activities is not going to end my suffering, it would only make it worse, and that is one reason I do not attend. All Baha’is ever do is spout the Writings and religious apologetics like “suffering is good for you because it makes you stronger.”Anyone can spout religious platitudes, obviously they do not have a clue what suffering can do to people in real life.

All you have to do is read what I posted to @ Bird123 in post #142 to understand why I do not attend Baha’i activities or any other social activities. People do not want to be around other people why are not happy, and I am not going to pretend I am happy just to fit in. I have to do that all day long at work, but that is because I have to go to work. I am not going to do that voluntarily.

I am well aware that most people do not understand what it is like to have depression or grief issues, but if people really followed what the Baha’i Faith teaches they would do what Abdu’l-Baha enjoined us to do. I do not think we will see this until the distant future when Baha’is are more spiritually evolved.

“O ye beloved of the Lord! The Kingdom of God is founded upon equity and justice, and also upon mercy, compassion, and kindness to every living soul. Strive ye then with all your heart to treat compassionately all humankind—except for those who have some selfish, private motive, or some disease of the soul.” Selections From the Writings of ‘Abdu’l-Bahá, p. 158

 

[Trailblazer]

If you read the Bible, everything was good at the beginning. And then people wanted to know evil and were expelled to this first death. Here we can learn what evil truly means. Luckily this is only a short lesson and those who are righteous can go back to life after this.

So, the reason for all evil is that people wanted to know it. Luckily this is like the Matrix (in the movie Matrix). Nothing of this can destroy our soul, which is in safe. Obviously, suffering is not nice, but that is something we have to learn to know, because people wanted it. I hope you learn well what is good and want to do what is good.

And fear not them which kill the body, but are not able to kill the soul: but rather fear him which is able to destroy both soul and body in hell.
Matt. 10:28

Therefore I tell you, don't be anxious for your life, what you will eat, nor yet for your body, what you will wear. Life is more than food, and the body is more than clothing. Consider the ravens: they don't sow, they don't reap, they have no warehouse or barn, and God feeds them. How much more valuable are you than birds! Which of you by being anxious can add a cubit to his height? If then you aren't able to do even the least things, why are you anxious about the rest? Consider the lilies, how they grow. They don't toil, neither do they spin; yet I tell you, even Solomon in all his glory was not arrayed like one of these. But if this is how God clothes the grass in the field, which today exists, and tomorrow is cast into the oven, how much more will he clothe you, O you of little faith? Don't seek what you will eat or what you will drink; neither be anxious. For the nations of the world seek after all of these things, but your Father knows that you need these things. But seek God's Kingdom, and all these things will be added to you.
Luke 12:22-31

I was not referring to evil, I was referring to suffering. Evil can cause suffering but these are two different animals.

Are you saying that all the generations that followed Adam and Eve wanted to know evil? What is the basis for such a belief?

I do not believe that the Garden of Eden was a literal place or that Adam and Eve were real people but rather I believe the story is an allegory intended to teach spiritual truths.

But for the sake of argument let’s pretend it is true that when Adam and Eve lived in the Garden of Eden everything was perfect and there was no suffering, and that their choice to disobey God opened the door to evil and suffering. Even if Adam and Eve had not disobeyed God, the generations to follow Adam and Eve would have suffered because suffering is inherent in a material world that God created. So unless people had continued to live a sheltered and simple existence like Adam and Eve where time stands still,and unless God prevented physical death, diseases, accidents and injuries from affecting humankind, suffering would have been inevitable. Humans would have never made any progress if people had continued to live in a Garden of Eden forever. Humanity would not be educated, they would not make any progress in science, there would be no modern inventions, etc.

I find it odd that some Christians believe that when Jesus returns God will restore the Garden of Eden so they can live there for all of eternity. This is not progression, it is retrogression. Imo, it is a fairy tale, first because Jesus is not coming, and second because God would not turn back the clock, as God has never worked that way. God has always moved humanity forward in every new age by sending Messengers with new revelations, and these Messengers continually guide humanity and help them evolve spiritually. A parallel process of scientific evolution continues to move humanity forward materially.

None of this would have ever happened if humans had remained in the Garden.

 

[Trailblazer]

It can and has been debated whether there is truly free will, but be that as it may, let's assume it actually exists for the purpose of this thread.
Is god omniscient...does he know the future from the beginning and is he aware of the consequences of all of his actions and decisions?

Of course.

Did god decide to give humans free will?
Was he aware of the consequences of this decision?

Yes and yes.

If yes to both, then he is responsible for the outcome. It means he was aware that doing this would lead to the outcomes we observe and chose to have those outcomes occur.

No, God is not responsible for the outcome just because God KNEW the outcome, because knowing something is going to happen is not want causes it to happen.

God does not choose the outcome, humans choose the outcome by virtue of the free will decisions they make. God knew what we would choose because God’s essential knowledge surrounds the realities of all things before during and after they occur in this contingent world.

“Question.—If God has knowledge of an action which will be performed by someone, and it has been written on the Tablet of Fate, is it possible to resist it?

Answer.—The foreknowledge of a thing is not the cause of its realization; for the essential knowledge of God surrounds, in the same way, the realities of things, before as well as after their existence, and it does not become the cause of their existence. It is a perfection of God.......

Therefore, the knowledge of God in the realm of contingency does not produce the forms of the things. On the contrary, it is purified from the past, present and future. It is identical with the reality of the things; it is not the cause of their occurrence........

The mathematicians by astronomical calculations know that at a certain time an eclipse of the moon or the sun will occur. Surely this discovery does not cause the eclipse to take place. This is, of course, only an analogy and not an exact image.”
Some Answered Questions, pp. 138-139

God’s knowledge of what will happen in the future does not CAUSE anything to happen, not any more than the astronomer’s knowledge of an eclipse causes the eclipse to happen.

 

[Trailblazer]

You remind me of those guys who insisted that the earth was at the center of the universe and tried to make sense of all those weird and messy planet trajectories.

until someone showed how removing that premise, made everything much simpler. And compelling.

ciao

- viole

I only wish I could but non-belief is no more a choice than is belief.

Count your blessings.

 

[Bird123]

When did I say there are no choices? A person can have feelings and still make choices. I do it constantly.

I do not seek personal happiness because I consider it vain and empty and selfish. I seek to help others and whenever I can do that I am happy.

You live in a fantasy about God's Love healing all the hurt, but that is because you need to believe that.

What a farce. I am not going to pretend to be happy when I am not happy, that is dishonest.
People like you only accept people who are happy all the time because it is threatening to them to think that some people are sad, so you try to fix it with your magic formula as if you have that capability.

It is because of people like you who expect everyone to be happy even when they aren't that I cannot socialize with people. How utterly selfish to expect everyone to be happy just because you are, how self-centered. Then you judge people who are not happy as if they have some kind of character defect. No religion teaches this, and this is what results when one rejects religion and thinks they know more than God's Messengers.

Don't worry, I won't be spreading any doom and gloom around you. I will be talking to my atheist friends when I am sad because they have compassion and they do not judge me.

Grief is not a choice. Let me know when you get your degree in psychology or stop trying to practice it. I have an MA in Psychology and a counseling license, but I do not go around telling people on forums "how it is for them" and "what they need to do."

Why compare people to other people? Being crippled physically is nothing compared to what some people have endure their whole life, mentally and emotionally. People do not commit suicide because they are crippled.

Value it or hold onto it for dear life as so many do? How utterly judgmental. How do you know people value suffering or hold onto it for dear life? Are you God?

I know God hears it all and sees it all, but I do not know what God is doing, nobody does.

You live with the illusion that everyone has complete free will, but they don't.
How do you know that I choose the same things? How do you know what I am missing? How do you know I am not getting something you are missing?

God did not point anything out to you because God does not communicate to ordinary humans.
What God pointed out to His Messenger is to remember your own faults and not the faults of others, inasmuch as everyone knows his own self better than he knows others.

There is no Higher Level than religion because it comes from God. True religion does not spread hate and evil, it spreads love and goodness. If you took your head out of the sand you would see that everything in the world is a mess. Why is it that most everyone else on this forum can see it but you?

If you choose to do the same things, how can you expect different results?

You can understand God through God's actions. I can understand you through your actions. You can understand me through my actions. On the other hand one must be open to what actually exists.

Your attempt to shape and control your view to your will rather than what actually exists will always leave you wanting. Why? It's not God's reality.

There is so much you are closed to. Make your rules and limit yourself and your view. There always comes a time when Truth becomes more important. On the other hand, for the stubborn and closed minded, it might take several lifetimes to learn the lesson.

You have all my Love and Kindness. If you were really looking, you would see. It has never been about me. I am pointing for you. Still, you direct your journey. In time, those bumpy roads will end up in a better place. You choose what you want to Learn. Make it easy on yourself. It has always been in your hands.

 

[Faithofchristian]

We are really far away, since Jesus is not going to return, ever. He has no reason to return, since He finished the world God gave Him to do.

John 17:4 I have glorified thee on the earth: I have finished the work which thou gavest me to do.

Jesus said He was no more in the world; what about that do Christians NOT understand? Why are they still waiting?

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Nowhere in the Bible did Jesus EVER promise to return to earth. I know that because I have been posting to a Christian on my forum for over five years and he has never been able to come up with even one Bible verse where Jesus promises to return to earth.

Seeing that you have no understanding..
Try reading the book of Revelation..

 

[Faithofchristian]

Of course God is All-Knowing. God would not be God if He did not know everything.

Even if the word “omniscient” does not appear in the Bible, it is implied all throughout the Bible, OT and NT.

As I said before, God does not state anything in the Bible. The Bible was written by men who were inspired by the Holy Spirit, but that is not the same thing as God stating it Himself.

You keep saying that God is all knowing...
Where does God say that...
There is no where in the Bible that God has ever said that he's all knowing..
It seems people will say things....b
God never said it.
Can you give the book and chapter and verses as to where God said that he's all knowing..where exactly is that written at.

 

[Faithofchristian]

It is all throughout the Bible.
Why would Christians believe that God is omniscient if it was not in the Bible?

It is absurd to say that God is not omniscient. That would be demoting God to the level of a human being. Of course, Jesus was not All-Knowing, because ONLY God is All-Knowing, and that is one way of many ways we know that Jesus was NOT God.

Matthew 24:36 No one knows about that day or hour, not even the Son, but the Father only.

Mark 13:32 But of that day and that hour knoweth no man, no, not the angels which are in heaven, neither the Son, but the Father.

God has perfect knowledge of everything in existence, because God is perfect.

God knows everything that has ever happened, is happening, or will ever happen because the essential knowledge of God surrounds the realities of all things in existence, before, during and after their existence in this contingent realm. There is NOTHING God does not know about this world or the universe which He created.

Just think of the logical implications of God NOT being All-Knowing. If God was not All-Knowing that would mean that humans could know something God does not know, and if humans could know something God does not know, then that would mean there would be no reason to trust God or have faith that God knows more than we do, so God knows what is best for us. That would mean we could question the judgment of God like we might question the judgment of another human being.

You said in your post above...
( It is all throughout the Bible.
Why would Christians believe that God is omniscient if it was not in the Bible?)

Because Christians only go by what their
Pastors and Preachers will say and not check it out to see if God actually said that he's all knowing... That's why it's not written in the Bible... because it's man's teachings..and nothing that God said himself that he's all knowing..

Ask any Christian and Pastors.Preachers.. to give where it's written in the Bible that God saying that he's all knowing. .see what they tell you..
There is no where in the Bible that it's written that God is all knowing... nonetheless God doesn't even say it himself...that he's all knowing..

 

[sooda]

You keep saying that God is all knowing...
Where does God say that...
There is no where in the Bible that God has ever said that he's all knowing..
It seems people will say things....b
God never said it.
Can you give the book and chapter and verses as to where God said that he's all knowing..where exactly is that written at.

Omniscience is defined as “the state of having total knowledge, the quality of knowing everything.

 

[Faithofchristian]

Please present the verses.

As I already told you, God Himself never SAID anything in the Bible. God spoke to Jesus who spoke to His disciples and then much later other men wrote down what could be remembered of the utterances of Jesus.

No, it is the Bible that says that God is All-Knowing.

Are you absolutely positively that God never said anything in the Bible..

What about in Genesis 3:9---"And the Lord God called unto Adam, and said unto him, Where art thou?

It seems God speaking here..

What about God speaking..saying in
Matthew 3:17----"And lo a voice from heaven, saying, This is my beloved Son, in whom I am well pleased"

Should I go on...it seems God is doing alot of talking himself..

 

[Faithofchristian]

Omniscience is defined as “the state of having total knowledge, the quality of knowing everything.

That is right.. Omniscient does mean having total knowledge...
But however there is no where written in the Bible God ever saying himself that he's all knowing...
That's Man's teachings that say...God is all knowing..
But God himself never said that he's all knowing...
And you will not find the word
(Omniscient) written in the Bible..
Nor God himself saying that he's all knowing..

 

[sooda]

Seeing that you have no understanding..
Try reading the book of Revelation..

You would have to study first century history to understand Revelation. Futurism is pretty ridiculous unless you completely disregard what Revelation says about to WHOM the letter is addressed … and WHEN it will take place.

 

[Trailblazer]

Seeing that you have no understanding..
Try reading the book of Revelation..

The Book of Revelation is NOT about Jesus returning.
It is about the return of the Christ Spirit in another man with a new name.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I give to eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Jesus is not coming back to world. His Kingdom is NOT of this world, He said so.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

These two verses completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world, or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it. Jesus came into this world to (1) glorify God (glorified thee on the earth) and (2) that I should bear witness unto the truth. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to be IN this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

 

[Faithofchristian]

You would have to study first century history to understand Revelation. Futurism is pretty ridiculous unless you completely disregard what Revelation says about to WHOM the letter is addressed … and WHEN it will take place.

You can't be serious...
Revelation has nothing to do with
1st century..
It's all about the future from us to day..
I think we've gone thru this before...
So I'm not willing to go thru it again..
Thank you and a have a great day..

 

[Faithofchristian]

The Book of Revelation is NOT about Jesus returning.
It is about the return of the Christ Spirit in another man with a new name.

Revelation 2:17 He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches; To him that overcometh will I
go eat of the hidden manna, and will give him a white stone, and in the stone a new name written, which no man knoweth saving he that receiveth it.

Revelation 3:12 Him that overcometh will I make a pillar in the temple of my God, and he shall go no more out: and I will write upon him the name of my God, and the name of the city of my God, which is new Jerusalem, which cometh down out of heaven from my God: and I will write upon him my new name.

Jesus is not coming back to world. His Kingdom is NOT of this world, He said so.

John 18:36 Jesus answered, My kingdom is not of this world: if my kingdom were of this world, then would my servants fight, that I should not be delivered to the Jews: but now is my kingdom not from hence.

John 18:37 Pilate therefore said unto him, Art thou a king then? Jesus answered, Thou sayest that I am a king. To this end was I born, and for this cause came I into the world, that I should bear witness unto the truth. Every one that is of the truth heareth my voice.

These two verses completely negate that Jesus is the King of this world, or that Jesus will ever come to this world to rule it. Jesus came into this world to (1) glorify God (glorified thee on the earth) and (2) that I should bear witness unto the truth. He did that so there is no more reason for Jesus to be IN this world again. That is why Jesus said “I am no more in the world.”

John 17:11 And now I am no more in the world, but these are in the world, and I come to thee. Holy Father, keep through thine own name those whom thou hast given me, that they may be one, as we are.

Okay. So by all means. Please do tell what the Spirit is saying to the churches..have you any clue or idea what the Spirit of God is saying..
Revelation 2:17--- "He that hath an ear, let him hear what the Spirit saith unto the churches"
Please do tell what the Spirit is saying?

 

[1213]

…Are you saying that all the generations that followed Adam and Eve wanted to know evil? What is the basis for such a belief?

No, but by what I see, it really looks like most people want to know evil and also want to do evil.

…Even if Adam and Eve had not disobeyed God, the generations to follow Adam and Eve would have suffered because suffering is inherent in a material world that God created…

I have no reason to believe there would have been any suffering in that case.

…Humans would have never made any progress if people had continued to live in a Garden of Eden forever. Humanity would not be educated, they would not make any progress in science, there would be no modern inventions, etc…

I don’t think humans are making any good progress, only more advanced ways to kill others and make life more miserable. Today world is in brink of world war 3, if not already in it. People have polluted earth very badly and some people even think that climate is in change to worse, because of people and their modern inventions. “Science and education” and materialism seems to lead world only from bad to worse, especially when people don’t know love as it is in the Bible.

… A parallel process of scientific evolution continues to move humanity forward materially.

None of this would have ever happened if humans had remained in the Garden.

I have no reason to believe that people could not have learned many things, even if they would have remained in the Garden. And actually, if they would have, they could have asked anything directly from God and could have become very wise and knowing, much better than this current situation.

“Science” is leading people deeper into empty materialism. I think it is not good. Better would be to evolve spiritually, in love and truth. Without love, nothing really matters.

 

[CG Didymus]

I believe suffering is meant for our perfection.

Men who suffer not, attain no perfection. The plant most pruned by the gardeners is that one which, when the summer comes, will have the most beautiful blossoms and the most abundant fruit."

"Those who suffer most, attain to the greatest perfection..."

Suffering comes to us for two reasons - either as a consequence of our own actions or as a test sent by God for our spiritual development.

That sounds like you are talking about people who suffer through things in their lifetime. But... I don't think there has ever been anyone who hasn't gone through some suffering. I don't think that all people that have gone through relatively little suffering haven't learned from it and "attained" a higher degree of "perfection"? But, does anyone reach "perfection"? And, would it really have taking a lot of suffering to get them there? And, do all people that suffer greatly always reach "perfection"? Or, do some get more bitter and more resentful of God or their circumstances?

Then, what about those that die, especially when they die young. What has their spirit/soul learned from it? Nothing. The little body is dead. Even if they lived for a while in pain... what did they have time to learn? Some, I would imagine, only came to realize that their life is meaningless and no one cares. Then, there are those that a helping hand came and saved them. Those kids I could definitely see how they would be eternally grateful. But then, how many little kids are fed for a time, or cured from a disease, then become "collateral" damage in civil wars or "ethnic" cleansing? What perfection did they have a chance to attain? Their whole world was misery... hunger, strife, disease and war. And then they are dead.

And then, let's say one of those little kids does survive. And is told that they can join in the fight to rid their land of evil by fighting against the "Great Satan"? So that kid grows up to be a terrorist and blows up a bunch of people. And in that crowd of people maybe a little girl celebrating her birthday with her parents at her favorite restaurant. Why did that place get blown up that day? Who is the grand mastermind behind all of this intricate planning of who suffers what and who suffers when? If it is God, then is that God really All-loving? Is that God really doing all this to help us grow spiritually and gain "perfections"? I rarely agree with Trailblazer, but with this I really question how All-loving this God really is.

 

[CG Didymus]

God didn't create suffering and he gave us everything we needed to live beautiful lives, full of good experiences and no pain.

According to the Bible, God's authority was challenged. Humans decided to be independent from God and do whatever they wanted.

He created a world in perfect harmony, and pain, suffering, depression, disease, death did not exist.

It became as it is because humanity chose to join a rebellion in what you call "the spiritual world"

So then, God didn't know that Satan would rebel? And he didn't know that if he put a tree with forbidden fruit in the middle of Eden, and cast Satan to the Earth that... Satan wouldn't try to deceive them and get them to eat of the forbidden fruit? No, that's a set up. If it all went down like that. And that's the big question... are all those stories from ancient times actually, historically true?

But, let's pretend they are real. If God didn't create suffering, then who did? And who created in the minds of Adam and Eve the ability to go against God's commands? If God gave Adam and Eve the ability to choose wrong, then why did God expect them never to choose and do wrong? Especially, since God put Satan down on Earth to tempt them? So Adam and Eve failed their first test. They took a bite of fruit. Did God make things better or worse by cursing the Earth? It sure seems like God made it way worse. 'Cause just a few chapters later, God is sorry he even created people and drowns all living things except for Noah and his family. By doing that, did God get rid of evil? No. So what good did the Flood do?

 

[Trailblazer]

If you choose to do the same things, how can you expect different results?

I do not do the same things unless I want the same results; sometimes I do want them if they were results I liked.

You can understand God through God's actions.

You cannot know God’s actions, EVER. You just imagine you can. Not even Jesus could know God’s actions, and you think you do?

I can understand you through your actions. You can understand me through my actions. On the other hand one must be open to what actually exists.

You do not know my actions and I do not know your actions; all we know is what is posted in words on this forum. You do not know me from the words I post, even if you think you do. You know nothing about my life, all you know are a few beliefs and opinions I hold.

Your attempt to shape and control your view to your will rather than what actually exists will always leave you wanting. Why? It's not God's reality.

You think you know me, but you don’t. If you knew me you would know that I do not try to control things in my life, I try to do God’s will, but I cannot always know what that is, nobody can.

You do not know what God’s reality is, you just imagine you do.

There is so much you are closed to. Make your rules and limit yourself and your view.

And you know this exactly how? How do you know what I am closed to? How arrogant to assume you know me.

I am not closed and I do not make rules for myself or limit my view, but I can say this over and over again and you will come back insisting that I do, as if you, a stranger on a forum, know me better than I know myself.

There always comes a time when Truth becomes more important. On the other hand, for the stubborn and closed minded, it might take several lifetimes to learn the lesson.

The Truth, how do you think you know the Truth? You have your own truth but it is not The Truth.

Why not talk to me directly instead of beating around the bush?

You call me stubborn and closed-minded because I do not agree with your made up beliefs about God and Discovery. That is drop dead obvious to anyone who has even taken psych 101. You have a right to believe that way if you want to just as I have a right to believe in a religion. The question is why you have a need to control me. Maybe that worked on some lost souls who had no self-awareness and no religion, but it won’t work on me. You are as transparent as glass right after the window washer has come.

You have all my Love and Kindness. If you were really looking, you would see.

What you mean is that if I only did it “your way” I would see, but as long as I choose to do it my own way I will never see. That is arrogant.

I see what I need to see, and the Truth about God, as much as I can know, is contained in the scriptures of my religion and other religions. That guides my way but I make my own choices.

It has never been about me. I am pointing for you. Still, you direct your journey. In time, those bumpy roads will end up in a better place. You choose what you want to Learn. Make it easy on yourself. It has always been in your hands.

If it is in my hands, why do you keep telling me what I need to do? It seems to me that this is about you, you wanting me to do it your way, but I have my own way and you cannot accept it.

You cannot compete with the Messengers of God who revealed all the great world religions-so I suggest you stop trying.