Why would an All-Loving God create a world that has so much suffering in it?

[james bond]

Why would an All-Loving God create a world that has so much suffering in it?

We cannot blame God for all the suffering in the world, because humans have free will so they are responsible for some of their own suffering, but clearly God set it up so we would suffer, and some people suffer so much more than others, often through no fault of their own. This happens because that was their fate, a fate determined by God. Some of that fate is impending and can be avoided but some of it is irrevocable so we are stuck with it no matter what we try to do to avoid it. I believe this because it is based upon my religious beliefs:

“Know thou, O fruit of My Tree, that the decrees of the Sovereign Ordainer, as related to fate and predestination, are of two kinds. Both are to be obeyed and accepted. The one is irrevocable, the other is, as termed by men, impending. To the former all must unreservedly submit, inasmuch as it is fixed and settled. God, however, is able to alter or repeal it. As the harm that must result from such a change will be greater than if the decree had remained unaltered, all, therefore, should willingly acquiesce in what God hath willed and confidently abide by the same.

The decree that is impending, however, is such that prayer and entreaty can succeed in averting it.

God grant that thou who art the fruit of My Tree, and they that are associated with thee, may be shielded from its evil consequences.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 133

Note that it says it “can succeed” not that it “will succeed.”

What that amounts to is that we are completely at the mercy of God.

Evil consequences do not sound like they are coming from an All-Loving God… What’s up with that?

I am sorry, but I cannot believe that God is All-Loving because of what I see in the world. Why would an All-Loving God create a world like this where some people suffer a lot and some people suffer hardly at all? How just is that?

The usual religious apologetic is that “we will know more in the afterlife” and that “all our suffering will be over in the afterlife,” but even if that is true, what good does that do us now? Not only has very little been revealed by God about that afterlife, but it has to be believed solely on faith.

Another religious apologetic is that “suffering makes us grow stronger,” and that might be true for some people, but not for all people. Aside from that, an omnipotent/omniscient God could have come up with a better way for us to grow stronger, Imo. Putting us through this torture chamber is not what I consider Loving. Of course, I do not expect people who have not suffered much and have been happy most of their lives to understand what I am saying. It is probably very easy for them to see God as All-Loving.

I am sure there will be the people who say they have suffered a lot but they still believe God is All-Loving. I am waiting to hear from them. Please bear in mind that what they call suffering might not have been so bad, and they have no way of knowing the suffering that other people have endured. As far as I am concerned the worst suffering anyone can endure is loss of a loved one, human or animal, another great part of God’s design. This might be a test, as in the Story of Job, but I cannot consider a God who does this to people en masse “Loving.”

Some people might say that death of a loved one is no big deal but nobody can understand the suffering of anyone else unless they have walked a mile in their moccasins.

It's unfortunate sin came into this world and Satan was able to get its dominion. Otherwise, I suppose it would've been someone else, but then Satan may not have dominion. He became the "god of the world and prince of the power of the air." I think this is why atheists write God as god. They end up inadvertently honoring the prince.

 

[Trailblazer]

Many statements but no supporting documentation. (Some truth - but mostly false)

I provided some documentation for my beliefs.
What do you think is true and what do you think is false?

 

[Trailblazer]

It's unfortunate sin came into this world and Satan was able to get its dominion. Otherwise, I suppose it would've been someone else, but then Satan may not have dominion. He became the "god of the world and prince of the power of the air." I think this is why atheists write God as god. They end up inadvertently honoring the prince.

I do not believe in Satan and I do not believe in original sin, so I do not believe hat has anything to do with why there is suffering in the world.

Christians just love to pass the buck, everything is because of Satan or Adam and Eve. That makes it easy not to take responsibility for their own actions. I am not passing the buck to God, I am just questioning why an All-Loving God would create a world which is fraught with suffering.

 

[Trailblazer]

Free Will is not just fun and games. Besides for every action there is an opposite but equal reaction and tempering builds strength. You can't grow if you can't change.

That is all true, but how is that related to my question in the OP?

 

[Trailblazer]

Trailblazer said: I think about how a great fire destroys big forests, just as great suffering destroys some people.

God sees souls, immortal souls, there us no destruction in God's world, just physical or spiritual bodies.

I did not mean destroys in that context. I did not mean that the immortal soul is destroyed, because it cannot be destroyed. I meant that lives are destroyed, at least from the perspective of some people who suffer greatly.

It really does not matter if they are wrong, because they do not know that and they are not blameworthy.

 

[shmogie]

Why would an All-Loving God create a world that has so much suffering in it?

We cannot blame God for all the suffering in the world, because humans have free will so they are responsible for some of their own suffering, but clearly God set it up so we would suffer, and some people suffer so much more than others, often through no fault of their own. This happens because that was their fate, a fate determined by God. Some of that fate is impending and can be avoided but some of it is irrevocable so we are stuck with it no matter what we try to do to avoid it. I believe this because it is based upon my religious beliefs:

“Know thou, O fruit of My Tree, that the decrees of the Sovereign Ordainer, as related to fate and predestination, are of two kinds. Both are to be obeyed and accepted. The one is irrevocable, the other is, as termed by men, impending. To the former all must unreservedly submit, inasmuch as it is fixed and settled. God, however, is able to alter or repeal it. As the harm that must result from such a change will be greater than if the decree had remained unaltered, all, therefore, should willingly acquiesce in what God hath willed and confidently abide by the same.

The decree that is impending, however, is such that prayer and entreaty can succeed in averting it.

God grant that thou who art the fruit of My Tree, and they that are associated with thee, may be shielded from its evil consequences.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 133

Note that it says it “can succeed” not that it “will succeed.”

What that amounts to is that we are completely at the mercy of God.

Evil consequences do not sound like they are coming from an All-Loving God… What’s up with that?

I am sorry, but I cannot believe that God is All-Loving because of what I see in the world. Why would an All-Loving God create a world like this where some people suffer a lot and some people suffer hardly at all? How just is that?

The usual religious apologetic is that “we will know more in the afterlife” and that “all our suffering will be over in the afterlife,” but even if that is true, what good does that do us now? Not only has very little been revealed by God about that afterlife, but it has to be believed solely on faith.

Another religious apologetic is that “suffering makes us grow stronger,” and that might be true for some people, but not for all people. Aside from that, an omnipotent/omniscient God could have come up with a better way for us to grow stronger, Imo. Putting us through this torture chamber is not what I consider Loving. Of course, I do not expect people who have not suffered much and have been happy most of their lives to understand what I am saying. It is probably very easy for them to see God as All-Loving.

I am sure there will be the people who say they have suffered a lot but they still believe God is All-Loving. I am waiting to hear from them. Please bear in mind that what they call suffering might not have been so bad, and they have no way of knowing the suffering that other people have endured. As far as I am concerned the worst suffering anyone can endure is loss of a loved one, human or animal, another great part of God’s design. This might be a test, as in the Story of Job, but I cannot consider a God who does this to people en masse “Loving.”

Some people might say that death of a loved one is no big deal but nobody can understand the suffering of anyone else unless they have walked a mile in their moccasins.

God set it up so there would be no evil.

God is not omniscient.

Suffering and pain is solely the responsibility of humanity.

It continues to occur because it is an object lesson to the entire universe of what happens when beings with free will decide they do not need God.

It will end.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I agree that breaking the Golden Rule and Jesus' new commandment causes some of our suffering, but there is other suffering not caused by that so it is no guarantee that if you follow the Golden Rule and Jesus' new commandment you will not suffer.
According to my beliefs, when the body dies it remains dead and the soul leaves the body and goes to the spiritual world where it takes on a new form, a spiritual body. In the spiritual world we will have the answers to many questions we had in this world.

You're Not alone in thinking the soul leaves the body.....This is a world-wide view point.
We can trace that teaching all the way back to ancient Babylon because as the people migrated away from Babylon they took with them their soul-immortality ideas and spread them world wide into a greater religious Babylon or Babylon the Great.
Whereas, the Bible does Not teach that, but as un-faithful Jews mixed with the Greeks they adopted soul immortality.
False clergy of Christendom used hell fire as a good scare tactic to use to try to control the flock of God.
So, when the King James translated the word Gehenna into English as hell fire that put the flames in biblical hell.
Gehenna was just a garbage pit outside of Jerusalem where thing were destroyed forever Not burning forever.
Biblical hell is just the temporary stone-cold grave for the sleeping dead - John 11:11-14.
For the soul that sins dies, and the soul can be destroyed as per Ezekiel 18:4,20; Acts of the Apostles 3:23.
So, in Scripture the only way there will be personal answers to questions is via resurrection on Resurrection Day (Meaning Jesus millennium-long day of governing over Earth for a thousand years - Acts of the Apostles 24:15)
Plus, if the soul was death proof there would be No need for a resurrection, for what is alive does Not need a resurrection.

 

[leov]

I did not mean destroys in that context. I did not mean that the immortal soul is destroyed, because it cannot be destroyed. I meant that lives are destroyed, at least from the perspective of some people who suffer greatly.

It really does not matter if they are wrong, because they do not know that and they are not blameworthy.

all people suffer.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Yep, entertainment at our expense...
Why doesn't God just get cable TV?

I think there is a charge for cable TV, but always free of charge is www.jw.org

 

[URAVIP2ME]

all people suffer.

Yup, all people suffer in some way, and that is part of Satan's challenge as found at Job 2:4-5
Touch our ' flesh.... ' (loose physical health) and we would Not serve God.
Both Job and Jesus under adverse conditions proved Satan a liar and so can we.

 

[Trailblazer]

Because some people believe God knows everything, they believe God created humans, knowing there would suffer.
While it is true, from what the Bible says, God allowed Adam and Eve to reproduce, knowing that their offspring would suffer as a consequence of sin, on the part of their fore parents, the Bible shows that God did not know that humans would turn out the way they did.

Of course God knew how humans would turn out, because God is All-Knowing. The essential knowledge of God surrounds the realities of all things, before during and after they occur in this world.

I think that you are anthropomorphizing God, turning God into a human being who thinks and feels. God would not be God is God was not All-Knowing.

I do not believe that there was a Garden of Eden or an Adam and Eve. I believe that were fictitious characters in an allegorical story. As such, I do not believe that the offspring of Adam and Eve suffered as a consequence of sin because I do not believe in original sin.

Even though I do not believe in original sin, I believe there is sin in the world, but that does not address my OP, because sin is not the cause of all the suffering in the world. God created a world in which He knew humans and animals would suffer, often through no fault of their own. Such a God cannot be considered All-Loving, Imo.

 

[leov]

Yup, all people suffer in some way, and that is part of Satan's challenge as found at Job 2:4-5
Touch our ' flesh.... ' (loose physical health) and we would Not serve God.
Both Job and Jesus under adverse conditions proved Satan a liar and so can we.

we can not 'serve' God, really, God wants only one thing from us - good consciousness and actions according to that consciousness.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

I agree that breaking the Golden Rule and Jesus' new commandment causes some of our suffering, but there is other suffering not caused by that so it is no guarantee that if you follow the Golden Rule and Jesus' new commandment you will not suffer...........................

Absolutely right, because Satan Not only challenged the man Job (Job 2:4-5) Satan also challenges all of us.
Touch our ' flesh...' ( meaning loose our physical health) and we would Not serve God.
Both Job and Jesus under adverse conditions proved Satan a liar and so can we.

 

[Trailblazer]

God set it up so there would be no evil.

No, God gave man free will so God knew there would be evil.

God is not omniscient.

Of course God is omniscient. You cannot just make up doctrines that disagree with the Bible.
God is Omniscient
What Does the Bible Say About Omniscience?
14 Bible verses about God, Omniscience Of

The Bible teaches that God is all-knowing or omniscient. The word "omniscient" comes from two Latin words omnis signifying all, and scientia signifying knowledge. When we say that God is omniscient it means that He has perfect knowledge of all things. He does not have to learn anything and He has not forgotten anything. God does not have to reason things out, find out things, or learn them gradually. He knows everything that has happened and everything that will happen. God also knows every potential thing that might happen. God even knows those things that humankind has yet to discover. This knowledge is absolute and unacquired. The omniscience of God means that He has perfect knowledge, perfect understanding, and perfect wisdom as to how to apply the knowledge.
Does God Know Everything? (Omniscient)

Suffering and pain is solely the responsibility of humanity.

No, it is not, because God created a world in which humans would suffer, often not by virtue of any free will decisions they made. Accidents and injuries and diseases, natural disasters, these are not choices people make.

It continues to occur because it is an object lesson to the entire universe of what happens when beings with free will decide they do not need God.

True, some suffering is caused by free will decisions not to believe in or obey God, but all suffering is not the result of that.

It will end.

It will get better but it will never completely end as long as humans live in a material world which is a storehouse of suffering. It will only end when we die and go to the spiritual world, and then only if we played our cards right in this world.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Of course God knew how humans would turn out, because God is All-Knowing. The essential knowledge of God surrounds the realities of all things, before during and after they occur in this world........................

The ^ above ^ does Not match what we can learn from the Bible.
Scripture teaches that it is an un-known number of people who will be saved ( delivered / rescued ) through the coming great tribulation of Revelation 7:9,14.
Thus, God does Not know how humans will turn out. The free-will choice is our to make.

 

[Trailblazer]

all people suffer.

Yes, but in varying degrees.
Some suffer very much, some suffer very little.
How is that just?

 

[Trailblazer]

I think there is a charge for cable TV, but always free of charge is www.jw.org

I think God can afford the charge, but it is more fun to watch real people suffer.

 

[leov]

Yes, but in varying degrees.
Some suffer very much, some suffer very little.
How is that just?

we do not know how much suffering is going on by each...

 

[loverofhumanity]

Why would an All-Loving God create a world that has so much suffering in it?

We cannot blame God for all the suffering in the world, because humans have free will so they are responsible for some of their own suffering, but clearly God set it up so we would suffer, and some people suffer so much more than others, often through no fault of their own. This happens because that was their fate, a fate determined by God. Some of that fate is impending and can be avoided but some of it is irrevocable so we are stuck with it no matter what we try to do to avoid it. I believe this because it is based upon my religious beliefs:

“Know thou, O fruit of My Tree, that the decrees of the Sovereign Ordainer, as related to fate and predestination, are of two kinds. Both are to be obeyed and accepted. The one is irrevocable, the other is, as termed by men, impending. To the former all must unreservedly submit, inasmuch as it is fixed and settled. God, however, is able to alter or repeal it. As the harm that must result from such a change will be greater than if the decree had remained unaltered, all, therefore, should willingly acquiesce in what God hath willed and confidently abide by the same.

The decree that is impending, however, is such that prayer and entreaty can succeed in averting it.

God grant that thou who art the fruit of My Tree, and they that are associated with thee, may be shielded from its evil consequences.” Gleanings From the Writings of Bahá’u’lláh, p. 133

Note that it says it “can succeed” not that it “will succeed.”

What that amounts to is that we are completely at the mercy of God.

Evil consequences do not sound like they are coming from an All-Loving God… What’s up with that?

I am sorry, but I cannot believe that God is All-Loving because of what I see in the world. Why would an All-Loving God create a world like this where some people suffer a lot and some people suffer hardly at all? How just is that?

The usual religious apologetic is that “we will know more in the afterlife” and that “all our suffering will be over in the afterlife,” but even if that is true, what good does that do us now? Not only has very little been revealed by God about that afterlife, but it has to be believed solely on faith.

Another religious apologetic is that “suffering makes us grow stronger,” and that might be true for some people, but not for all people. Aside from that, an omnipotent/omniscient God could have come up with a better way for us to grow stronger, Imo. Putting us through this torture chamber is not what I consider Loving. Of course, I do not expect people who have not suffered much and have been happy most of their lives to understand what I am saying. It is probably very easy for them to see God as All-Loving.

I am sure there will be the people who say they have suffered a lot but they still believe God is All-Loving. I am waiting to hear from them. Please bear in mind that what they call suffering might not have been so bad, and they have no way of knowing the suffering that other people have endured. As far as I am concerned the worst suffering anyone can endure is loss of a loved one, human or animal, another great part of God’s design. This might be a test, as in the Story of Job, but I cannot consider a God who does this to people en masse “Loving.”

Some people might say that death of a loved one is no big deal but nobody can understand the suffering of anyone else unless they have walked a mile in their moccasins.

Hi Trailblazer.


My understanding on this point is that God’s Love cannot reach us if we don’t allow it to.

Love Me that i love the. If thou loves me not My love can in no wise reach ther - Baha’u’llah

This is a very deep topic for God’s Love also enables one to feel His love enough to know we are always loved and that everything in this world has been configured for our benefit as in ......l


“Out of the wastes of nothingness, with the clay of My command I made thee to appear, and have ordained for thy training every atom in existence and the essence of all created things.” Bahá'u'lláh

Every atom in existence includes all the things, the suffering you mentioned, a lot of it which comes from an unjust, corrupt system set up by man himself despite Baha’u’llah bringing the Kingdom of God, a system that would perpetuate human happiness.

Thus rejecting this wondrous system, man has created to a large extent his own demise. Even illnesses Abdul-Baha is said to have come about primarily through disobeying the commandments of God.

So who’s fault really is all this suffering?

However, this is not the eternal world so all things eventually decompose and turn to dust. The purpose here is to learn and experience many of God’s gifts before moving on to better worlds.

Childbirth too is one of the most painful experiences one can have yet it is a bringer of joy not sadness. But as to millions who suffer it is I believe because of man’s unjust system and refusal to use God’s System that this suffering continues and will until we realise God’s ways are better than ours. When that will be nobody knows.

 

[Trailblazer]

Absolutely right, because Satan Not only challenged the man Job (Job 2:4-5) Satan also challenges all of us.
Touch our ' flesh...' ( meaning loose our physical health) and we would Not serve God.
Both Job and Jesus under adverse conditions proved Satan a liar and so can we.

I do not believe in a "being" called Satan. I believe that Satan in the Bible represents the lower material nature of man. We are challenged by God to reject that lower nature and instead follow our higher spiritual nature.

Both Job and Jesus were able to meet that challenge.