Why would God send good people to Hell just because they dont believe he exists?

[DandyAndy]

I heard "God before All and God in All". A good christian told me this and this is exactly what my scripture also teaches.

Without knowing essential godliness of all, if you harp on evil in all, then
do you understand God CORRECTLY --------?

Define 'good Christian.'

Cite the Bible and we can continue this 'God before all and God in all.'

I'm not going to discuss something based on the words of some 'good Christian' because I've heard a LOT of 'good Christians' say a LOT of inaccurate and bad things. I've done it before myself - and I am no 'good Christian.'

 

[DandyAndy]

That sounds like a god that has self esteem issues.

Or a God that knows everything about the person - including all the terrible actions and thoughts that other people know NOTHING about.

 

[Falcon]

According to Scripture, if one is in hell, "he shall be tormented with fire and sulfur . . . the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and day and night they have no rest" (Rev. 14:11). This is an "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt. 25:41). Jesus tells his listeners of Lazarus and the rich man, where the rich man dies, and is "existing in torment . . . he sees . . . calls out . . . ‘I am in anguish in this blazing fire’" (Luke 16:19-31). As a further illustration, Jesus stated that hell is likened to Gehenna. This "Valley of Hinnom" was located southeast of Jerusalem, and was used as a garbage dump where trash and waste were continuously burned day and night in a large fire. Jesus informs the listeners that hell is like this, "where the maggot does not die, and fire is not put out" (Mark 9:42-48). It is the place where the wicked are sent, and from this "everlasting fire" (Matt. 18:8) will come "weeping and the gnashing of teeth" (Matt. 8:12). Now if hell were "a place of rest in hope" as the WTS teaches, then it is odd that Jesus would choose such contradictory illustrations to convey this. Lastly, Revelation 20 calls hell a "pool of fire . . . [where] they will be tormented day and night, forever and ever"—all who are not in the book of life. So, if one’s name is in the book of life, one enters heaven (Rev. 21:27). If it not in the book, then a literal hell awaits.

Mostly copied from the Word of God, the Holy Bible

According to my understanding from my Church [ Catholic ] teachings, if a person through no fault of his /her own , never hears of the 'Good News " of Jesus and is a "good " person will probably not go to hell.

 

[Blackheart]

Im going to get straight to the point.

I am no Athiest. I believe there IS a higher power but I do not believe he is as wrathful as most Church's make him/her out to be.

What gets me angry about alot of Church's is that unless you follow their particular way of worship you will go to hell. What kind of rubbish is this? I thought Jesus taught people to love thy neighbor not judgeing them on Race or Religion? Or am I wrong here?

Nearly all people who participate in Church are very Judgemental, I have been told numerous times by Christians I will go to Hell if I dont change my ways..

I Don't Smoke
I Don't Gamble
I Do Partake in Alcohol but I Don't get drunk or drink to get drunk
I am a Virgin so no Sex either
I do not commit crimes

I guess they judge me wicked because I don't go to Church?
But why should I go to Church? How does going to Church make me more good?

I think God doe's Exist but I dont believe he will send people to Hell (If that place even exists) simply for " not believing in him " or not following a specific Church's practice.

Heres a Scenario.
(None of this is real it is made up as an example)

Jeff is a 43 year old man with 3 Kids aged 3,9 and 16 and a 39 year old Wife named Brenda.

Jeff is driveing home from work on a rainy night and a Truck who is driveing too fast lose's control and Smashes into Jeff's car. Killing him Instantly.

The Driver of the Truck is Arrested, Trialed and Sent to Prison for Manslaughter.

Jeff was a loveing Husband and Father and a great Friend to many.

Jeff was involved in many Charitys and raised lots of money to help Kids with disabilitys.

Jeff was an Athiest and did not believe in any god.

Uh Oh! Jeff did not believe God existed! Any Church Zealot would condemn him to Hell for this ungodly Sin...

My point is I cannot imagine God saying this.

Jeff. " But im not a Bad Person! ive made mistakes in life like a normal Human being but ive given most of my life to help people! "

God. " To bad you didn't believe in me so now you will burn in Hell for all Eternity "
---
God would not Punish anyone for being a Good Person. Never.
Shame on you for believing he would.
---
And for anyone who is too lazy to read this the Question is pretty much.

Why would God send people to Hell for being Good Careing Decent people?

Lol. Whoever told you that you will go to hell because you dont go to church is brain washed. The church institution is not God's church its just a meeting place. What about before there was any organised churches???

Its just as misleading for you to say that Jeff wouldnt burn. You have made a judgement based on his outward and obvious actions but you fail to see that God is the judge and therefore he sets the criteria. Your concept of right and wrong has been influenced by many external and environmental factors but God's right and wrong is uninfluenced by the world we have created. Im not saying that Jeff would burn; what I am saying is that none of us can say for sure coz we are not God and we only know what Jeff has shown us of him.

Here's some food for thought. Those guys that invented the nuclear bomb were considered to be heros by the allies and people still talk about the amount of lives they saved by dropping that bomb but what did the Japanese think of them? Our right and wrong is objective. I would call Jeff a great guy but is he sinless?

 

[Awoon]

Or a God that knows everything about the person - including all the terrible actions and thoughts that other people know NOTHING about.

Your own Mind knows the same.

So God/Mind Energy is the same.

 

[Awoon]

According to Scripture, if one is in hell, "he shall be tormented with fire and sulfur . . . the smoke of their torment ascends forever and ever, and day and night they have no rest" (Rev. 14:11). This is an "everlasting fire prepared for the devil and his angels" (Matt. 25:41). Jesus tells his listeners of Lazarus and the rich man, where the rich man dies, and is "existing in torment . . . he sees . . . calls out . . . ‘I am in anguish in this blazing fire’" (Luke 16:19-31). As a further illustration, Jesus stated that hell is likened to Gehenna. This "Valley of Hinnom" was located southeast of Jerusalem, and was used as a garbage dump where trash and waste were continuously burned day and night in a large fire. Jesus informs the listeners that hell is like this, "where the maggot does not die, and fire is not put out" (Mark 9:42-48). It is the place where the wicked are sent, and from this "everlasting fire" (Matt. 18:8) will come "weeping and the gnashing of teeth" (Matt. 8:12). Now if hell were "a place of rest in hope" as the WTS teaches, then it is odd that Jesus would choose such contradictory illustrations to convey this. Lastly, Revelation 20 calls hell a "pool of fire . . . [where] they will be tormented day and night, forever and ever"—all who are not in the book of life. So, if one’s name is in the book of life, one enters heaven (Rev. 21:27). If it not in the book, then a literal hell awaits.

Mostly copied from the Word of God, the Holy Bible



Thoughts of regret.
They torment a person "day and night" until they are resolved.

 

[atanu]

Define 'good Christian.'

My mistake. I meant a good christian friend.

Cite the Bible and we can continue this 'God before all and God in all.'

What? You wish to argue on 'God in all' vs 'All in God'?

Before that kindly explain the other part. Why the omniscient creator created evil at all? For punishing the evil people?

I am not saying that you are wrong. I am asking for understanding as to why an omnipotent and omniscient God would leave a scope for such a prospect?

 

[idav]

Or a God that knows everything about the person - including all the terrible actions and thoughts that other people know NOTHING about.

When everyone is in the same boat as far as terrible actions and thought then why would a believer get off the hook but not a non-believer? Is that about punishing bad or more about rewarding people that feed to gods ego?

 

[Bringing Truth]

sorry guys I haven't read this whole thread, but I would like to inpute my saying :

Your focus is on the right of people, but what about the rights of the god? The purpose for which you were created?

again I apologize I didn't read anyone's post on this thread. If anyone have already said this, cool, if not again its cool as I got my sayings in.

 

[waitasec]

sorry guys I haven't read this whole thread, but I would like to inpute my saying :

Your focus is on the right of people, but what about the rights of the god? The purpose for which you were created?

again I apologize I didn't read anyone's post on this thread. If anyone have already said this, cool, if not again its cool as I got my sayings in.

are saying that god has to fight for his right?
interesting...

 

[DandyAndy]

Your own Mind knows the same.

So God/Mind Energy is the same.

Huh?

 

[DandyAndy]

My mistake. I meant a good christian friend.


What? You wish to argue on 'God in all' vs 'All in God'?

I really don't want to argue, I just don't know what it means. You say a Christian told you such a thing but I just want to see it in the Bible so I can understand it.

Before that kindly explain the other part. Why the omniscient creator created evil at all? For punishing the evil people?

I am not saying that you are wrong. I am asking for understanding as to why an omnipotent and omniscient God would leave a scope for such a prospect?

Sorry, I'm getting too testy - I need to relax.
:drums:

Ok, better.

God did not create evil. God created the Creation out of love - love necessitates a choice. A choice necessitates two options. The two options were, in a nut shell, good and evil. Without the choice between good and evil, if good was forced upon the Creation, then there would be no love. God made everything out of love, presented the choice to Adam and Eve, warned Adam and Eve what would happen of they chose evil and they chose evil despite God's warning. So God didn't create evil - evil is the result of the Creation with free will making the choice of evil.

I'm not sure what 'leave a scope for such a prospect' means, but I think it's explained through the fact that love and free will are only possible if rejection and evil are made available as choices.

So you have acceptance or rejection, good or bad, obedience or disobedience, submission or rebellion. Without those choices there is no love, only force.

 

[DandyAndy]

When everyone is in the same boat as far as terrible actions and thought then why would a believer get off the hook but not a non-believer? Is that about punishing bad or more about rewarding people that feed to gods ego?

Because Jesus paid the price. Mercy was made available to all because of love. All deserve the punishment, but mercy saves/pardons. Those that accept mercy receive mercy. Those that reject mercy receive the punishment that is due them. When you accept mercy, your punishment is 'paid in full' by Christ - that's what the cross was all about - Jesus died for our sins and 'paid' for them. The resurrection guarantees eternal life (reward) for the believer.

Well, punishing bad is about satisfying justice. Justice is a good thing - imagine how much better this life would be if the criminal ALWAYS got caught and NEVER got away with doing bad stuff.

Rewarding people is a result of great love. Mercy is not required. Love is not required. But because God is love, love IS required and thus mercy IS required if God is going to be who He is - that's a huge part of who God is.

Neither of these things 'fuel God's ego.' God deserves worship because He made everything - He only made everything because of His unending love. As a parent, you give life to a child because you love it, don't you deserve that child's love and admiration in return? Wouldn't you do anything for that child?

I don't know where this ego thing comes from, God isn't a tyrant, He is a perfect father...

 

[Awoon]

Good and Evil is no different then right and left, up and down, in and out.

A & E ate of the knowledge of dualities. That's what the whole garden story is about.

To make the story into the monstrosity that is taught today is ridiculous.

 

[DandyAndy]

Good and Evil is no different then right and left, up and down, in and out.

A & E ate of the knowledge of dualities. That's what the whole garden story is about.

To make the story into the monstrosity that is taught today is ridiculous.

Oh. I disagree 100% but that's cool.

 

[Me Myself]

He likes the smell of roasted human sinners in the morning(that is eternity)

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

But if you truly came to God, even if it was initially out of fear, by the very nature of the thing (forgiveness, reward of eternal life, commitment, sacrifice, etc) love would become the dominating feeling. A fear of God (probably better rendered as reverence or respect, but fear makes sense) is a healthy part of the relationship - it isn't a fear we have of spiders or of being robbed or of 'oh no please don't stab me mr. murderer I don't want to bleed to death' it's a fear of 'God can do anything,

Or, "God can do anything like throw me in a lake of fire for not believing in him."

God made everything, He made me, He is all-powerful and all-knowing, He gives life and He takes life - He is way better than I am,' that's so awe-inspiring (personally) that it instills a bit of fear into me. I think that's healthy.

That sort of thing doesn't impress me much unless I knew he had to work at it. If God exists then he is what he is and couldn't be anything else and there is/was never a possibility of failure. I could acknowledge that he is greater than me but beyond that, I wouldn't be impressed.

As a child you fear your parents (if they are good parents) - you don't hide from them, but when they speak you listen and when they command you obey kind of thing.

As a child I feared my mother because she was heavy handed with the whipping stick and I loved my father because he was kind and loved me back.

You and I will never see this the same way because I will never agree that fear is a healthy part of a parent/child relationship.

But you have chosen to sin. God didn't curse mankind with a sinful nature

Then where did it come from?

God never cursed them with a sinful nature - God told them the consequence of their action of eating the fruit. They ate it. If your mother tells you to not touch the hot stove because it will burn you and you run up and touch it, is it her fault or yours? It's your fault. It's Adam and Eve's fault we have a sinful nature - and we aren't guilty because we have a sinful nature - we are guilty because we have individually chosen to sin over and over again.

What did Adam and Eve's eating the fruit have to do with me? How did I get a sinful nature because of their actions?

I hear that a lot and I think it's faulty logic and I think it doesn't work at all.

#1 there is 0 indication in the text that they were unable to understand cause and effect, or consequences. In fact the text shows that they DID understand consequence and cause and effect - in Genesis 3:2 Eve tells the serpent what she is able to eat and what she is not able to eat, based on what God told her - CLEARLY she understood not to eat it and CLEARLY she understood she would die if she ate it. Read on - the serpent tempts her by saying 'she will become like God.' This is a VERY promising proposition, one that she obviously wanted, a proposition that could ONLY be understood if she understood consequences and cause and effect.

#2 Why is a knowledge of good and evil required for making a choice? It's not. I don't have to understand good and evil to know that if I jump off of a 500 foot cliff onto jagged rocks I will die.

#3 They didn't have a sinful nature before, because as the text states, they were naked and NOT ashamed.

You just told me that I have a sinful nature because I choose to sin. Yet here you're saying that Adam and Eve didn't have a sinful nature before they ate the fruit despite the fact that they had to choose to sin to eat the fruit! Do you honestly not see the contradiction here? It doesn't matter that they were naked and unashamed, they still had to choose to be disobedient. Becoming aware that they were disobedient changed nothing.

What all this means is that the eating of the fruit was immaterial. Mankind could and did have the propensity to make sinful choices before they were aware that they were sinful choices.

 

[DandyAndy]

Or, "God can do anything like throw me in a lake of fire for not believing in him."

You left out the whole 'sinful and guilty and worthy of punishment' part.

That sort of thing doesn't impress me much unless I knew he had to work at it. If God exists then he is what he is and couldn't be anything else and there is/was never a possibility of failure. I could acknowledge that he is greater than me but beyond that, I wouldn't be impressed.

Creating everything doesn't impress you? Sunsets and sex and the colors of the autumn leaves and beaches and stars and hope and trees don't impress you? I am very impressed by God's holiness and love - it's hard for me to empathize with what you are saying - but I think I understand it.

As a child I feared my mother because she was heavy handed with the whipping stick and I loved my father because he was kind and loved me back.

You and I will never see this the same way because I will never agree that fear is a healthy part of a parent/child relationship.

I think if you combine the two you get God - he punishes the wicked but loves everyone and offered forgiveness despite the wickedness of all of us - we have to accept it in the form of Christ to escape punishment.

But we can agree to disagree. 'Fear of God' is a tough one for believers, so it's especially tough for unbelievers.

Then where did it come from?

It was the consequence of the choice of A&E. It was passed down through the species - think of it as a mutation.

What did Adam and Eve's eating the fruit have to do with me? How did I get a sinful nature because of their actions?

You aren't guilty because they ate the fruit. Sinning comes natural to you because they ate the fruit. You don't have to sin. You and I choose to. We are guilty because we choose to sin.

You just told me that I have a sinful nature because I choose to sin. Yet here you're saying that Adam and Eve didn't have a sinful nature before they ate the fruit despite the fact that they had to choose to sin to eat the fruit! Do you honestly not see the contradiction here? It doesn't matter that they were naked and unashamed, they still had to choose to be disobedient. Becoming aware that they were disobedient changed nothing.

What all this means is that the eating of the fruit was immaterial. Mankind could and did have the propensity to make sinful choices before they were aware that they were sinful choices.

This is a good point. Hmmm *pondering face* mmm. Making a choice is not a good or evil thing. The result of your choice is what is good or evil. Just because they chose to disobey God doesn't mean they knew what murder, rape and all sorts of other evil things were beforehand. I don't understand why they would have to have an understanding of good and evil in order to eat the fruit and gain the knowledge of good and evil. Couldn't they be innocent, be tempted by the prospect of becoming like God (whom they intimately knew - Adam walked and talked with God), and choose to give into that temptation, opening their minds to good and evil?

My becoming aware of something is not contingent upon my prior knowledge of that thing - my new found knowledge is only a consequence of my choice to learn it.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

He likes the smell of roasted human sinners in the morning(that is eternity)

The 'He' in 'roasting humans' is the teaching of a non-biblical eternity.

The Bible's eternity is that the time will come when: Death will be no more.
No body goes to heaven to die in heaven. The 'death' problem exists on earth.
-Rev 21vs4,5

The biblical eternity is endless life either in heaven or on a paradisaic earth free from death.

Except Adam and Eve, everyone that lived between Genesis and Malachi were only offered a future earthly resurrection. [John 3v13; Acts 2v34]

The Bible's hell [mankind's common grave: sheol] comes to an end according to Rev. 20 vs13,14. Once all in the Bible's hell are 'delivered up' [resurrected] then vacant, emptied-out hell is cast into a symbolic: second death.
The Bible's hell dies out of existence for all eternity.
In other words, the biblical hell is forever destroyed.

Those that are destroyed forever are those judged as committing the unforgivable sin [Matt 12v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6; 10vs26,27; Psalm 92v7]
They are not part of the biblical hell [gravedom/sheol], but part of Gehenna.
Gehenna translated [JKV] as hellfire was a garbage pit where things were destroyed forever not kept burning forever. [2nd Thess 1v9]
So, Gehenna is a fitting symbol of everlasting destruction for the wicked.
They will have No resurrection anywhere to heaven or on earth.

 

[URAVIP2ME]

Good and Evil is no different then right and left, up and down, in and out.
A & E ate of the knowledge of dualities. That's what the whole garden story is about.
To make the story into the monstrosity that is taught today is ridiculous.

By Adam's disobedience Adam was taking the law [do not eat] into his own hands and Adam set up people rule over obeying God rule.

Adam set up independence from God, and since we were born after Adam's sin we have suffered the bad consequences of Adam's choice.

The Eden account is about obedience.

With Job we can see that Satan also challenged our obedience. -Job 2vs4,5.
Under pressure Satan says we would turn away from God.
Touch our bones and flesh [health] and we would curse God.
Both Job and Jesus proved Satan a liar and so can we.