Why would God send good people to Hell just because they dont believe he exists?

[sandy whitelinger]

Why would God send people to Hell for being Good Careing Decent people?

He doesn't.

 

[idav]

He doesn't.

Excellent, so no need in believing, we just need to be good people.

 

[Bringing Truth]

first of all if a did sends a child who he knows is not capable of understanding the consequences of his actions, it's really the dads fault...and it's a reflection of the dad's failure...

tell me who should the dad send? It was simply an example to explain, when someone is sent with a purpose, a intelligent person would follow it and an ignorarnt or dumb person will not obey it. May I ask how is it dad's fault? The dad did not fail, but the child failed in fullfilling his job, also, anyone would say its the fault of child, a person again who's mind is closed, ignorant would try and say its the fault of father when his/her head is already saying "there is no god" whilst studying religions and trying to find the truth.

Its simply like, a glass of full with black coloured water, the person is trying to make it colourless by simply adding more colourless (clean) water, whilst the glass is already full of black water which turns other water black aswell, a intelligent person would empty it before adding more, and a ignorant or dumb person would keep it full and push in more. Its simple, a head saying "there is no god" and taking in the information of religion, it will turn those information in the same way the black water making colourless black.

When you study, remember to open your mind, clean your mess in the head and then get the facts in.

And moving back, if you want to see how others would say wether its the fault of the dad or child, carry out a survey, copy and paste the incident I wrote, and see for yourself who the majority of people blame on.

i would guess it's simple and easy to understand if you're the type of person who likes to be told what to believe...and who can't figure out morality for yourself

A conclusion already made that I can't work out morality myself? when facts are coming up, I know it hurts, so please accept them.

 

[waitasec]

tell me who should the dad send?

he shouldn't send someone who doesn't understand the aim.

It was simply an example to explain, when someone is sent with a purpose, a intelligent person would follow it and an ignorarnt or dumb person will not obey it.

how can one know what the purpose is if it isn't explained?
the child is aimless, innocent and ignorant yet held accountable by someone who knows they do not understand...
fail.

May I ask how is it dad's fault? The dad did not fail, but the child failed in fullfilling his job, also, anyone would say its the fault of child, a person again who's mind is closed, ignorant would try and say its the fault of father when his/her head is already saying "there is no god" whilst studying religions and trying to find the truth.

the dad failed because the dad knew the child wasn't capable of understanding the purpose...

Its simply like, a glass of full with black coloured water, the person is trying to make it colourless by simply adding more colourless (clean) water, whilst the glass is already full of black water which turns other water black aswell, a intelligent person would empty it before adding more, and a ignorant or dumb person would keep it full and push in more. Its simple, a head saying "there is no god" and taking in the information of religion, it will turn those information in the same way the black water making colourless black.

if a parent told a 3 yr old to look both ways before he crosses the street and then leaves him alone, is the 3 yr old accountable for not understanding the laws of physics and the consequences of being hit by a car? there is more to it than doing what your told...you have to find out what draws the lines...
i'm guessing you don't have children.

A conclusion already made that I can't work out morality myself? when facts are coming up, I know it hurts,

how do you know it hurts? experience perhaps...
glad to know you are capable of figuring our for yourself.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

Excellent, so no need in believing, we just need to be good people.

You've got that backwards.

 

[waitasec]

You've got that backwards.

do you mean in order to be good we have to believe?

 

[sandy whitelinger]

do you mean in order to be good we have to believe?

That's not my meaning. Belief in Christ is the way to Heaven not good works.

 

[waitasec]

That's not my meaning. Belief in Christ is the way to Heaven not good works.

why though?

 

[idav]

That's not my meaning. Belief in Christ is the way to Heaven not good works.

So if you don't believe but are a good caring decent person, would that person go to hell?

 

[Awoon]

Hell is mental toment ie regret, shame

 

[Falcon]

Only Jesus knows the heart of the individual , just because a person goes around saying 'Lord, Lord ,doesn't necessarily mean that a supposed religious person is going to heaven and a " good "person through no fault of his/her own hasn't accepted Jesus is going to hell.I believe that may be the similar teaching of Christ's Catholic and Apostolic Church .

 

[DandyAndy]

OK I was a baptized catholic and stopped believing because I tortured myself for a year over the fact that I "disobeyed god" by not changing schools because my mom told me that she got a word I was supposed to change and it was somehow my fault because I was supposed to get a word too. That year was hell because of the awful way I was treated at that catholic school might I add, and I finally realized that God never said anything, and it was her the whole time and my own emotions, Not "god" speaking. How can you believe when God never really talks to you and how is it your fault since you can never be sure...and so you're just damned to hell for not believing? that doesn't sound like love an all loving god to me.

I'm sorry that happened. I knew a friend that went through a few years of 'Hell' because he was waiting for God to tell him what to do with his life. He sat around, waiting for a sign. Didn't get anything. That whole 'God told me' thing is really tricky and I think, unfortunately, is more often just an emotional response to what we want to happen.

In the Bible God gave specific instructions by speaking directly to only a handful of people throughout that history - I don't know why people think it's the norm that God would tell us all stuff. I think it's less scripturally based and more emotionally based.

No I fully believe that if we seek God and His will He will guide us and won't let us get too far off the path or will (cliche alert) open doors for us. But we have to put in the effort, not sit and wait for a sign like my friend.

Anyway, just thought I'd share that. Don't let someone else's honest mistake or misinterpretation negatively influence your belief or non-belief.

When you say God never talks I assume you mean in the way we talk to our friends, face to face, back and forth. God HAS spoken through the Bible, through the person of Christ and continues to speak through the Holy Spirit - but it isn't the kind of 'speaking' we have come to expect. Sometimes I wish God would just speak and lay it all out like I want, but He knows better than I.

 

[Ghost of a Rider]

The answer hinges upon what God's purpose for creating mankind was.

Simply put, God created mankind out of love and for a relationship. If God is holy and perfect and He created mankind holy and untainted by evil, then mankind became 'infected' with evil because of their choice, God can't be in relationship with evil, so He can't be in relationship with mankind, so He has to find a way to make mankind holy again (not by force but by the choice of mankind - that's CRUCIAL) - which is where Christ comes in. Morality (or the knowledge of good and evil) shows us how imperfect we can be (Hitler, me, everyone else ever) and yet how perfect we could be (through Christ obviously).

This doesn't answer the question as to why he wants us to be good to each other, or simply moral in general. We can maybe say that being kind to each other pleases him but then I have to ask why. Why does it please him? If God has a purpose for morality, how does, say, my changing a tire for a stranded female motorist serve that purpose? And if, as an atheist, my committing this moral act serves God's purpose for morality, why would he then condemn me to hell? See what I'm getting at? If he sends me to hell in spite of my morality serving his purpose then again, morality has no ultimate purpose.

Honestly I would be more impressed! No one else could do that (I assume). Others could learn to drum solos close to that level - heck, someone may eventually come along that could even surpass Neil. Not Keith Moon, not John Bonhman (sp?) nor any other drummer EVER could do such a thing as snap their fingers to create an awesome drum solo. I see what you are saying though. All this drum talk makes me think of Tourniquet, an old Christian metal band, they had a sick drummer. I don't remember his name.

I think you missed the point. Basically you're saying you wouldn't be impressed by the drumming, you'd be impressed by the magic. I would be impressed by the magic too but if he could do magic, he could also play guitar like Jimi Hendrix, bass like Geddy Lee and sing like Steve Perry if he wanted to. So the question is, would you be impressed by his drumming abilities if you knew it was all done by magic? I think it's safe to say that if he did what he did by magic, he would in fact have no drumming abilities at all. See what I'm saying?

Well it did take God six days to make everything.

Would you be more impressed if God took thousands (or billions) of years to bring about the perfect time to send Christ, then waited however many thousands (or millions) of years longer after that to ensure that He collected every last one of His lost children that would accept Him AND then after that He will restore everything back to how it was before evil entered into it and corrupted it?

Seeing as how he would not feel the passage of time and that, again, it would take no effort for him, no.

I don't compare myself to others, I compare myself to God/Jesus and that makes me wicked by comparison. God doesn't use Mother Terresa or someone else that was 'good' by our standards to measure a person, He uses Christ, and compared to Christ we are all wicked.

I just don't view it in such extremes and no matter what angle I look at it from, I can't bring myself to say I'm wicked or evil. Even if I believed in Jesus I wouldn't see myself as wicked. An occasional sinner? Yes. In need of redemption? Maybe. But wicked? That's a bit much.

I can't give a satisfactory answer. I don't know for sure, just like I don't really know how God made everything or how Jesus was raised from the dead. Or how the Red Sea was parted.

So, when we commit a sin today we are responsible for our own sins and they affect no one except those who may have been sinned against. But when Adam and Eve sinned, for some unknown reason it made everyone wicked and we all have to pay for it.

The flesh was 'corrupted' with sin/evil and this was passed down through the generations.

How? The fruit itself wasn't evil, it only imparted the knowledge of good and evil. So where did the evil come from and how did it corrupt their bodies?

I don't think it's fair to say 'easily tempted.' We don't know how long they existed prior to eating the fruit, they were immortal before they ate it, and sinning didn't come 'natural to them' because it took the goading of the serpent for Eve to eat and I cannot think of a greater temptation than being like God (being able to do anything, create anything, etc.).

Um, no. To begin with, the serpent said nothing about them having the power of God, only that if they ate the fruit they would "..be as gods (plural), knowing good and evil." Secondly, the second the serpent told her she wouldn't die, she started munching away.

If it were natural to them, I don't think someone would have had to whisper in her ear to convince her, something coming naturally means you don't need any goading or encouragement. My attraction to women is natural, the lions hunger for meat is natural, the love of a child is natural - those things don't need any convincing or coercion.

I have no desire to commit murder so if someone tells me I won't get caught if I do, it's not going to change the fact that I have no desire to do it.

Again, I think it's unfair to say they had a propensity to disobey God, this is an outside assumption. If I smoked my first cigarette ever at age 80 after hearing for 60 years that it would kill me to start smoking, would you say that I've had a propensity to smoke?

I'd say that at the very least, you were always curious about it.

Depends on the context or what you mean by saying that:

Jesus commands us to be perfect as our Heavenly Father is perfect in Matthew 5:48. If you want to be holy when you say I want to be like God, I say go for it and I think God would agree, though He knows you would fail - which is why Christ came.

If when you say 'I want to be like God' you mean 'I deserve to be worshiped' or 'I want to be as powerful as God' or 'I want to raise my throne to be equal with God (signifying authority and rulership) then I would say you are being sinful (prideful) just as Satan was.

Right. So then, as I said, logic dictates that Adam and Eve must have had a sinful nature and a desire to be like God prior to eating the fruit else the temptation by the serpent would have meant nothing to them.

I disagree because that means God would have created them imperfect and I don't have any reason to believe that God would make anything imperfect - don't misunderstand, God has made things perfect that later BECAME imperfect, but God has never made an imperfect thing - it just doesn't fit His character. Everything He has made like the Creation, humanity, even Satan himself, were once perfect.

If they were perfect then how is it that they sinned in the first place?

 

[DandyAndy]

This doesn't answer the question as to why he wants us to be good to each other, or simply moral in general. We can maybe say that being kind to each other pleases him but then I have to ask why. Why does it please him? If God has a purpose for morality, how does, say, my changing a tire for a stranded female motorist serve that purpose? And if, as an atheist, my committing this moral act serves God's purpose for morality, why would he then condemn me to hell? See what I'm getting at? If he sends me to hell in spite of my morality serving his purpose then again, morality has no ultimate purpose.

Ah, well, He wants us to be 'good' to each other for a few reasons. I think the biggest is that we are all created in His image, which I take to mean that we all have meaning or value or worth, however you want to say it. Simply put, God loves us all equally. If you had 15 kids, you would want them all to be kind and civil and loving to each other, because they are all your kids and you care for and love each individual child equally. Well, God is our Father and our Creator. I can't think of ANYTHING that would upset Him more than to see someone take away another person's worth(which is what sin does) sin, or see someone degrade their own worth (which is what sin does) through sin.

Being kind to someone in a weird way gives yourself and the other person value. By stopping to help the lady you are showing her that she is important, she matters. And you show that you have value by, in that instant, doing a righteous thing and taking a step towards becoming holy. Our entire purpose in life is to become holy like God so that we can have a relationship with Him as He originally intended for A&E and all of humanity.

Basically sin devalues the human being, it makes them evil (the one committing the sin), it makes them not sacred (both the victim and the guilty party. God laid out what is considered sacred in the 10 commandments.

So even though you may, through various acts, fulfill the purpose of God's morality (move towards holiness and a relationship with Him) you have still committed sinful acts that have revealed you as the wicked sinner that we all are. You can't outweigh your bad with good when the standard is perfection. Guilty is guilty is guilty. Only Christ can wash away that guilt.

God set up an impossible standard for us to measure up to (perfection). This would be unfair and a wrong thing to do IF (and that is the biggest if EVER) He did not provide a way to 'measure up.' But He did provide a way, Christ, and it is available to ALL. The 'ball is in our court' at that point and we have to make the conscience decision to choose love.

I think you missed the point. Basically you're saying you wouldn't be impressed by the drumming, you'd be impressed by the magic. I would be impressed by the magic too but if he could do magic, he could also play guitar like Jimi Hendrix, bass like Geddy Lee and sing like Steve Perry if he wanted to. So the question is, would you be impressed by his drumming abilities if you knew it was all done by magic? I think it's safe to say that if he did what he did by magic, he would in fact have no drumming abilities at all. See what I'm saying?

Maybe he just has drum magic and not guitar or bass or vocal magic. I would still be impressed by the drumming too since I couldn't do it, but I see what you are saying. Why do you think God snapped His fingers and *poof* everything was made in an instant?

Seeing as how he would not feel the passage of time and that, again, it would take no effort for him, no.

As Christ He felt the passage of time. It must have taken some effort to create, He rested on the 7th day.

I just don't view it in such extremes and no matter what angle I look at it from, I can't bring myself to say I'm wicked or evil. Even if I believed in Jesus I wouldn't see myself as wicked. An occasional sinner? Yes. In need of redemption? Maybe. But wicked? That's a bit much.

I understand it's hard to come to terms with. Maybe wicked is a strong word but I think it's apt. Compared to Christ, the man that has sinned once is imperfect. 1 sin is wicked. 9876 sins are wicked. No matter how you slice it, you get a wicked sinner. Now compared to Hitler you and I are saints. But we aren't compared to each other, only to Christ, which is perfect holiness.

So, when we commit a sin today we are responsible for our own sins and they affect no one except those who may have been sinned against. But when Adam and Eve sinned, for some unknown reason it made everyone wicked and we all have to pay for it.

It didn't make us wicked, per se, I don't think we are guilty until we commit our own sin. Their choice just made us much more likely to sin. It kind of stinks but, well, that's how it works, that's the hand we were dealt.

And many sins we commit affect others - we have no idea and could never know. Those hateful words I said to that kid in middle school may stick with him for the rest of his life, cause him to cut himself and eventually commit suicide - you never know. But no matter how you slice it, whether it's a private sin or one committed against another, you have disobeyed God, defiled His creation and sinned against Him. That's pretty bad.

How? The fruit itself wasn't evil, it only imparted the knowledge of good and evil. So where did the evil come from and how did it corrupt their bodies?

Those are good questions and honestly I don't know. *OPINION* I assume that evil came about because of Satan's choice to rebel. Once God decided to make a new species (man), He had to present them with a choice between good and evil, and they chose wrong.

Um, no. To begin with, the serpent said nothing about them having the power of God, only that if they ate the fruit they would "..be as gods (plural), knowing good and evil." Secondly, the second the serpent told her she wouldn't die, she started munching away.

Well, my NIV translation reads 'you will be like God,' in verse 5 of chapter 3. 'To be like God' *could* entail the idea of having power like Him - we have little indication of what Eve thought. Also we have no idea how long she was around before he came whispering in her ear.

I have no desire to commit murder so if someone tells me I won't get caught if I do, it's not going to change the fact that I have no desire to do it.

You have not been put into the appropriate situation. Also you have handpicked one sin - there are countless others we have committed. I have no desire to lie right now, but that doesn't mean I won't lie this week when the opportunity presents itself.

The serpent seemed to plant doubt and pride into Eve's mind when he said what he said - she probably never thought that God didn't really mean what He said until the serpent said it.

I'd say that at the very least, you were always curious about it.

Indeed but when we talk about A&E, they *may* have had curiosity about the fruit, but they never ate it until when they did. Curiosity and action are not always the same.

My smoking example was a bit of a stretch.

Right. So then, as I said, logic dictates that Adam and Eve must have had a sinful nature and a desire to be like God prior to eating the fruit else the temptation by the serpent would have meant nothing to them.

The text gives no reason to believe that. On the contrary, if the thought of sinning and being like God were truly her own and originated with herself, logically Eve would have eaten the fruit BEFORE the serpent ever said a word to her. She wouldn't need his goading. In fact, it seems that the thought never crossed her mind until the serpent says something about it. Only then does she act upon a thought/idea/desire that, according to the text, seems to originate outside of herself.

If they were perfect then how is it that they sinned in the first place?

They were created out of love. Love allows for free will. As humans they had free will. Free will always allows for the possibility of sin/evil. Christ could have sinned - he was faced with it and tempted by it on a daily basis - he was human for a time. But he didn't sin.

Was I a murderer before I killed a man in cold blood? No - killing a man in cold blood made me a murderer. In the same way A&E were perfect before they ate the fruit and disobeyed God. Eating the fruit and disobeying God made them imperfect. They made a choice - choices have consequences.

Whew.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

So if you don't believe but are a good caring decent person, would that person go to hell?

That person would not go to heaven unless they believed in God.

 

[sandy whitelinger]

why though?

Because the Guy that owns the place said you can't come in unless you at least believe in Him.

 

[waitasec]

Because the Guy that owns the place said you can't come in unless you at least believe in Him.

he's got insecurity issues...

 

[sandy whitelinger]

he's got insecurity issues...

Rules.

 

[InChrist]

he's got insecurity issues...

Would you let people into your home who hate you and just want to trash your place up?

 

[The_Evelyonian]

Would you let people into your home who hate you and just want to trash your place up?

How is the question relevant?