Ghost of a Rider
Member
If sin caused Cain to kill Abel then what caused Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit?
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Why would God send good people to Hell just because they dont believe he exists?
- Thread starter Lord_Dweedle
- Start date
If sin caused Cain to kill Abel then what caused Adam and Eve to eat the forbidden fruit?
waitasec
Veteran Member
your arrogance is showing...
iow, you can't refute what i said...
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According to James [1vs13-15] each person is drawn out by their own desire.
waitasec
Veteran Member
they were in a state of innocence...
ignorant and free...
the word "no" contradicts the notion they didn't have knowledge of good and evil.
in the state of innocence, everything is "yes"
They were not ignorant according to the direct warning given at Genesis [2v17].
The tree was not considered evil. The tree stood for the law of the land.
They were banished from Eden, not because of ignorance, but because they disobeyed or broke God's known law.
They self determined to covet what was not theirs to take.
Ghost of a Rider
Member
So then, sin was not necessary for Cain to kill Abel. He might have killed him simply out of a desire to do so, correct?
Very interesting thinking question ^above^.
I noticed at Genesis [4v7] that 'sin' is mentioned in connection to Cain.
That seems to be in harmony or connect with James [1v14].
Proverbs [11v6 B] mentions by wrong craving those dealing treacherously will themselves be caught. Cain's uncontrolled sinful craving brought trouble upon himself.
Ghost of a Rider
Member
But look closer at the paragraph in James containing verse 14. The paragraph reads:
"When tempted, no one should say, 'God is tempting me.' For God cannot be tempted by evil, nor does he tempt anyone; but each one is tempted when, by his own evil desire, he is dragged away and enticed. Then, after desire has conceived, it gives birth to sin; and sin, when it is full-grown, gives birth to death."
If I'm reading this correctly, evil and sin are two different things. And it seems to say in so many words that sin is merely the immoral act. That being the case, sin is not what caused Cain to kill Abel, desire was.
But even then we can't say that evil desire causes us to sin because people experience the desire to commit sin every day and yet don't act on it. If it was as simple as evil desire causing us to sin then everyone would be acting on all their evil desires every day. In reality though, some act on them and some don't. So the question is: What actually causes one to commit sin?
waitasec
Veteran Member
thats what i've been trying to point out...
the story contradicts itself.
tell someone "no" and the implications of the tree of knowledge contradict each other.
are you telling me that if knowledge was never discovered there would be laws?
Only laws given by something with knowledge i.e. god(s). We wouldn't be able to understand the laws however
waitasec
Veteran Member
and yet a & e were held accountable as if they did understand...
edit:
besides, what's the point in giving laws when you know the subjects are not capable of understanding them?
But blind obedience beats thinking things through
edit:
besides, what's the point in giving laws when you know the subjects are not capable of understanding them?
No one can question you? :Shrug:
waitasec
Veteran Member
But blind obedience beats thinking things through
No one can question you? :Shrug:
sounds like a tyrannical dictator...
Seems legit
The word 'evil' in Scripture is Not always synonymous with wrong doing.
-Isaiah 45v7
Evil comes in the form of 'calamity' from God only for the wicked.
-Isaiah 26v10; 11vs3,4; Jeremiah 25vs30,31; Rev 19sv 11,15
Angels and humans are both free moral agents with the ability to choose.
Even imperfect people can choose to act on sin's leanings or not.
-Deut 30v19; 32v5
Besides wrong desire, Paul wrote [ Romans 2vs14,15; 1st Tim 4v2]
that 'conscience' enters into the picture.
A conscience can be trained to either 'excuse' or 'accuse' a person in their actions. Who would want the damaged conscience of a serial killer ?
So, Jimminy Cricket's advice to 'always let your conscience be your guide'
will only be good advice if the conscience is guided in the right direction.
God wants everybody to repent. [2nd Peter 3v9]
That means we can choose to act on thoughts or not.
It is the willful, premeditated, purposeful sinning that can lead to the unforgivable sin of Matthew 12v32; Hebrews 6vs4-6; 10vs26,27
* What actually causes one to commit sin ? [deliberate or not]
Adam, as our family head, passed down to us his imperfect DNA.
As every parent knows at a child's birth that its leanings will be toward imperfection. In other words, we can not stop accidental sinning no matter how hard we try. If we could stop sinning we would not die.
Since we can not resurrect oneself or another we need someone that can do that for us. Jesus, Not having human imperfection due to inherited Adamic sin,
and being faithful to death, is the one that can restore our life.
Jesus perfect life balanced the scales of justice for us.
What Adam lopsided [lost for us] Jesus balanced or evened out for us.
Some to life in heaven [Rev 20v6; 5vs9,10;14v4], and the majority to everlasting life on earth during Jesus messianic [1000-year] reign over earth.
Then, as Revelation [21vs4.5] says even death will be no more.
1st Cor [15v26] says: our last enemy 'death' will be brought to nothing.
Those resurrected on earth will have the opportunity to reach the same healthy human perfection of having a perfectly healthy, sound heart, mind and body as Adam originally had at his creation, along with the prospect of gaining everlasting life on a paradisaic earth.
God however is a Benevolent Benefactor.
God did not make or force Adam do anything against his [Adam's] will.
Adam was a free moral agent who could use his gift of free will however he wanted. -Deut 30v19; 32v5.
PolyHedral
Superabacus Mystic
That's cheating; God set up Adam's will in the first place.
Ghost of a Rider
Member
This still doesn't answer the question as to what causes us to sin.
And how did Adam's DNA become imperfect if not from being created that way?
"Accidental sinning"?
My understanding of Jesus' sacrifice has always been somewhat different. Yes, it is believed that he was the son of God and thus half divine spirit but because he was manifested to us in human flesh with all the inherent flaws that entails, it made his faith and sacrifice that much more significant. If it was not possible for Jesus to sin then what is there to emulate about him? Also, If it was not possible for him to sin then Satan's temptation in the wilderness was pointless and a waste of time.
waitasec
Veteran Member
naw... indifferent would be more apropos (in the world i live in)
what PolyHedral said...
no he wasn't. a boundary was placed. to be free was to say yes to everything. nothing would be forbidden, fruit included.