Why would it matter if Jesus had risen from the dead?

[Dave Watchman]

That is true, notably because most people are afraid of death, so here comes the promise of living forever and some people grab at it; but the irony is that we will all live forever, just not on a physical body, and nobody in their right mind would want to live forever in a physical body if they knew what a spiritual body will be like.

Not all religions think everyone will live forever.

Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

What about the people that don't believe in God, do they live forever too?

What about the people who say they don't want to live forever, or the really evil ones?

Peaceful Sabbath.

 

[Rival]

I think one main issue that makes it seem 'meh' is the Jesus-is-God belief. If he were just some dude then it'd be different. But the fact that God Himself apparently died and came back to life? Well no ****, He's God.

 

[Koldo]

If we knew for a fact that someone had died and gotten back up again, I would definitely listen to what he had to say.

Do you need someone to die and get back to listen to what they have to say though?

 

[Koldo]

There have been so many threads being posted about Jesus rising from the dead, so I think it is about time someone asked why it matters so much to people, not only Christians but also atheists.

So what is the significance of Jesus rising from the dead and why is it such a big deal to people?

I have my own ideas but I do not want to give away my position until I have heard from others.

Honestly, I see no particular signifance.

 

[epronovost]

Er, if a person comes back to life after being literally dead for 3 days, that's kind of a big deal...

Nitipick I know, but he was dead for a day and a half from Friday afternoon to Sunday morning.

 

[Koldo]

No, sometimes just dying is enough.

Being a teacher can be a really tough task sometimes.

 

[Trailblazer]

Its the greatest proof of the greatness of Christ.

But why would it make Christ any greater than He already is? The greatest proof of Christ was His completed mission on Earth and His teachings.

“But in the day of the Manifestation the people with insight see that all the conditions of the Manifestation are miracles, for They are superior to all others, and this alone is an absolute miracle. Recollect that Christ, solitary and alone, without a helper or protector, without armies and legions, and under the greatest oppression, uplifted the standard of God before all the people of the world, and withstood them, and finally conquered all, although outwardly He was crucified. Now this is a veritable miracle which can never be denied. There is no need of any other proof of the truth of Christ.” Some Answered Questions, p. 101

It would affirm the historical reliability of the Gospels (the original Mark omits the resurrection) that all appear to give an account of Jesus being literally raised from the dead.

It would affirm that if they could ever prove it happened.

Paul himself claimed to have seen the risen Christ and went onto to say if Jesus wasn’t really resurrected then our faith is in vain (1 Corinthians 15).

That is not what I have heard and read. I heard from certain Christians that Paul believed that Christ rose in a spiritual body, not in a physical body.

What many liberal theologians believe about Jesus' death

Many liberal and some mainline Christian leaders believe that Jesus died during the crucifixion, did not resurrect himself, and was not bodily resurrected by God. At his death, his mind ceased to function and his body started the decomposition process. Returning to life a day and a half later would have been quite impossible. The story of having been wrapped in linen and anointed with myrrh seems to have been copied from the story of the death of Osiris -- the Egyptian God of the earth, vegetation and grain. The legend that he visited the underworld between his death and resurrection was simply copied from common Pagan themes of surrounding cultures. One example again was Osiris. "With his original association to agriculture, his death and resurrection were seen as symbolic of the annual death and re-growth of the crops and the yearly flooding of the Nile." 1

They also believe that Paul regarded the resurrection to be an act of God in which Jesus was a passive recipient of God's power. Paul did not mention the empty tomb, the visit by a woman or women, the stone, the angel/angels/man/men at the tomb, and reunion of Jesus with his followers in his resuscitated body. Rather, he believed that Jesus was taken up into heaven in a spirit body. It was only later, from about 70 to 110 CE when the four canonic Gospels were written, that the Christians believed that Jesus rose from the grave in his original body, and by his own power.

Later, perhaps after Paul's death, there was great disappointment within the Christian communities because Jesus had not returned as expected. They diverted their focus of attention away from Jesus' second coming. They studied his life and death more intensely. Legends without a historical basis were created by the early church; these included the empty tomb and described Jesus returning in his original body to eat and talk with his followers.

So for many Christians, if Jesus wasn’t really resurrected, they have been duped by the greatest hoax. How could God allow such a travesty and injustice?

As a Baha'i, I believe it is the biggest hoax of all time and a crime against humanity committed by the Christians in power who pushed it from early on and I believe that the unsuspecting Christians who believed them were duped.

Maybe you could answer why you believe that God allowed it because as a Baha'i you do not believe that Jesus literally rose from the dead.

 

[Brickjectivity]

There have been so many threads being posted about Jesus rising from the dead, so I think it is about time someone asked why it matters so much to people, not only Christians but also atheists.

So what is the significance of Jesus rising from the dead and why is it such a big deal to people?

I have my own ideas but I do not want to give away my position until I have heard from others.

The significance is spoken about in Romans 7, Hebrews, Ephesians and Acts. If a person is innocent are they still worthy of death like Adam? Yes, hence Jesus dies. But are they guilty? No, hence Jesus is resurrected. The underlying theological point according to Paul's letters and Hebrews is that humans have good in us struggling with the bad in us. Therefore, according to these lines of reasoning gentiles can become part of the Jewish family. It is the central argument for why Christians don't need to be Jewish. According to this Jesus resurrection 'Proves' that he is innocent despite being a human with Adam's flaw.

Spoiler: quotes

[Rom 7:20-24 NIV] 20 Now if I do what I do not want to do, it is no longer I who do it, but it is sin living in me that does it. 21 So I find this law at work: Although I want to do good, evil is right there with me. 22 For in my inner being I delight in God's law; 23 but I see another law at work in me, waging war against the law of my mind and making me a prisoner of the law of sin at work within me. 24 What a wretched man I am! Who will rescue me from this body that is subject to death?

[Rom 8:3 NIV] 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,

[Heb 5:7 NIV] 7 During the days of Jesus' life on earth, he offered up prayers and petitions with fervent cries and tears to the one who could save him from death, and he was heard because of his reverent submission.

[Rom 8:3 NIV] 3 For what the law was powerless to do because it was weakened by the flesh, God did by sending his own Son in the likeness of sinful flesh to be a sin offering. And so he condemned sin in the flesh,
[Eph 2:15 NIV] 15 by setting aside in his flesh the law with its commands and regulations. His purpose was to create in himself one new humanity out of the two, thus making peace,

Spoiler: Significance according to Acts

[Act 5:30-32 NIV] 30 The God of our ancestors raised Jesus from the dead--whom you killed by hanging him on a cross. 31 God exalted him to his own right hand as Prince and Savior that he might bring Israel to repentance and forgive their sins. 32 We are witnesses of these things, and so is the Holy Spirit, whom God has given to those who obey him."

As you can see in Acts, Jesus is hung on a tree which in the Pentateuch means something about his behavior is to be eschewed; however since he is resurrected, it means according to Acts that his behavior has been showed approved of God and that his accusers have been wrong. The arguments in Romans and Ephesians are based on this.

 

[Saint Frankenstein]

I think one main issue that makes it seem 'meh' is the Jesus-is-God belief. If he were just some dude then it'd be different. But the fact that God Himself apparently died and came back to life? Well no ****, He's God.

Either way, it's a miracle. Lol.

 

[Koldo]

There have been so many threads being posted about Jesus rising from the dead, so I think it is about time someone asked why it matters so much to people, not only Christians but also atheists.

So what is the significance of Jesus rising from the dead and why is it such a big deal to people?

I have my own ideas but I do not want to give away my position until I have heard from others.

I am going to elaborate:
I think that ressurecting himself doesn't mean much. However, if we connect the dots it can become relevant:

1) Jesus is able to ressurect himself.
2) Jesus is able to ressurect others (such as Lazarus).
3) Jesus vanished.


With those three together we have a dude that can ressurect himself, which we can't prove to have died eventually since he vanished, and that can ressurect and heal others. That turns him into the ultimate savior.

 

[The Hammer]

Okay, that is a reasonable answer. However, any supernatural feat such as Moses parting the waters would accomplish that, if it could be proven to have occurred.

Afaik, Moses didn't part the Red Sea. God did, on behalf of Moses. Different I think.

 

[The Hammer]

There have been so many threads being posted about Jesus rising from the dead, so I think it is about time someone asked why it matters so much to people, not only Christians but also atheists.

So what is the significance of Jesus rising from the dead and why is it such a big deal to people?

I have my own ideas but I do not want to give away my position until I have heard from others.

I honestly see Jesus' death and rebirth, similar to a Shamanic death and rebirth/Journey, just reformated for a different culture and place.

 

[Neuropteron]

There have been so many threads being posted about Jesus rising from the dead, so I think it is about time someone asked why it matters so much to people, not only Christians but also atheists.

So what is the significance of Jesus rising from the dead and why is it such a big deal to people?

I have my own ideas but I do not want to give away my position until I have heard from others.

Hi,
The significance's of Jesus resurrection are varied and numerous.
He offered and handed over the value of his sacrifice to God.
His resurrection strengthened the faith of his followers and was a preview of the resurrection hope for all mankind.
Jesus is enthroned as King in heaven.

A text in Revelation (Rev 5-13) explains: " The lion of the tribe of Judah, has conquered so as to open the scroll...you (Jesus) are worthy to receive the power and riches and wisdom and strength and honor and glory and blessing. "

All of this and the fact that he conquered death would not be possible and meaningless if he was dead.

 

[Trailblazer]

Not all religions think everyone will live forever.

I know at least two other religions that teach that, Islam and the Baha'i Faith.

Because, if you confess with your mouth that Jesus is Lord and believe in your heart that God raised him from the dead, you will be saved.

Jesus never said there was anything to be saved from, that is all Paul. Jesus knew nothing of original sin, that is all Church doctrine.

Eternal life is living forever in heaven and being close to God. Below is not what Jesus said about how we gain eternal life, by believing in Him and being righteous.

John 3:16: For God so loved the world, that he gave his only Son, that whoever believes in him should not perish but have eternal life.

1 John 5:13 I write these things to you who believe in the name of the Son of God that you may know that you have eternal life.

Matthew 25:45-46 Then shall he answer them, saying, Verily I say unto you, Inasmuch as ye did it not to one of the least of these, ye did it not to me. And these shall go away into everlasting punishment: but the righteous into life eternal.

What about the people that don't believe in God, do they live forever too?

All souls will continue to exist forever in the spiritual world because the soul is immortal, but not all souls will have eternal life. The souls of people who are distant from God will not have eternal life; although their soul will continue to exist they will be “as dead” compared to those souls who are close to God.

“In the same way, the souls who are veiled from God, although they exist in this world and in the world after death, are, in comparison with the holy existence of the children of the Kingdom of God, nonexisting and separated from God.”
Some Answered Questions, p. 243

What about the people who say they don't want to live forever, or the really evil ones?

That's to bad for people who don't want to exist forever because they will exist forever since the soul is immortal.
The really evil ones will also continue to exist forever, but they will be far from heaven, so they won't be able to hurt anyone anymore.

"There is no power exercised over the people by those evil souls that have passed away. Good is stronger than evil and even when alive they had very little power. How much less have they after they are dead, and besides they are nowhere near this planet."
(Questions answered by Abdu'l-Bahá in Akka: Daily Lessons, Received at Akka, 1979 ed., pp. 43-44)

 

[Trailblazer]

Honestly, I see no particular signifance.

Nor do I.

 

[Trailblazer]

I am going to elaborate:
I think that ressurecting himself doesn't mean much. However, if we connect the dots it can become relevant:

1) Jesus is able to ressurect himself.
2) Jesus is able to ressurect others (such as Lazarus).
3) Jesus vanished.

With those three together we have a dude that can ressurect himself, which we can't prove to have died eventually since he vanished, and that can ressurect and heal others. That turns him into the ultimate savior.

It might prove that if it was not just tales in a storybook.
The hundred-dollar question is why people believe that tales in a storybook are actually true stories.
My best guess given my background in psychology is that they believe them because want to believe them.

 

[Trailblazer]

Afaik, Moses didn't part the Red Sea. God did, on behalf of Moses. Different I think.

I believe you are right that God parted the Red Sea on behalf of Moses, and it is different. I think it is the same with the resurrection of Jesus. God raised Jesus on behalf of Jesus, or so the story goes.

The resurrection of Jesus, or anastasis, is the Christian belief that God raised Jesus on the third day after his crucifixion, starting – or restoring – his exalted life as Christ and Lord. According to the New Testament writings he was firstborn from the dead, ushering in the Kingdom of God.

Resurrection of Jesus - Wikipedia

 

[The Hammer]

God raised Jesus on behalf of Jesus, or so the story goes.

Still sounds like the Shaman's journey and return from the Underworld, imo.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think one main issue that makes it seem 'meh' is the Jesus-is-God belief. If he were just some dude then it'd be different. But the fact that God Himself apparently died and came back to life? Well no ****, He's God.

God cannot die so right out the door we know the belief that Jesus is God is wrong.
Now, if Christians want to only claim that God raised Jesus from the dead, that is a horse of a different color.

 

[Trailblazer]

Either way, it's a miracle. Lol.

It would be if it had happened.