Why would it matter if Jesus had risen from the dead?

[Trailblazer]

Is this an evidential statement or a faith statement of a particular religion?

It is a faith statement shared by Christians and Baha'is.

 

[Trailblazer]

I think it matters mostly because "Paul Said so".

And if Christ has not been raised, our preaching is useless and so is your faith.

That is why it matters to Christians, and it is true, because if Christ had not been raised in a spiritual body He would be dead forever.

Another way to interpret what Paul said that if the Spirit of Christ had not been brought back to life after three days, their preaching would have been impossible.

"Therefore, we say that the meaning of Christ’s resurrection is as follows: the disciples were troubled and agitated after the martyrdom of Christ. The Reality of Christ, which signifies His teachings, His bounties, His perfections and His spiritual power, was hidden and concealed for two or three days after His martyrdom, and was not resplendent and manifest. No, rather it was lost, for the believers were few in number and were troubled and agitated. The Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body; and when after three days the disciples became assured and steadfast, and began to serve the Cause of Christ, and resolved to spread the divine teachings, putting His counsels into practice, and arising to serve Him, the Reality of Christ became resplendent and His bounty appeared; His religion found life; His teachings and His admonitions became evident and visible. In other words, the Cause of Christ was like a lifeless body until the life and the bounty of the Holy Spirit surrounded it.

Such is the meaning of the resurrection of Christ, and this was a true resurrection. But as the clergy have neither understood the meaning of the Gospels nor comprehended the symbols, therefore, it has been said that religion is in contradiction to science, and science in opposition to religion, as, for example, this subject of the ascension of Christ with an elemental body to the visible heaven is contrary to the science of mathematics. But when the truth of this subject becomes clear, and the symbol is explained, science in no way contradicts it; but, on the contrary, science and the intelligence affirm it. Some Answered Questions, pp. 103-105

23: THE RESURRECTION OF CHRIST

 

[Trailblazer]

He is called the first born of the resurrection.
If He did not rise, the saying goes, you won't rise either.
So it's a big deal.

That might be true, but Jesus did not rise in a physical body so nobody else will either.

Won’t the Dead Rise Again?

 

[Dawnofhope]

Fair enough, you are putting yourself in the shoes of conservative Christians but why would they be any more correct than the liberal Christians? They are both reading from the same Bible.

Here is the question you asked in your OP.

So what is the significance of Jesus rising from the dead and why is it such a big deal to people?

It clearly is a big deal for conservative Christians.

The resurrection narrative as expounded in the Bible is not an essential part of Baha'i belief, and everything that is important to know about the true meaning of Resurrection is completely lost to Christians simply because they are clinging to the Bible meaning of resurrection.

Ah, but I never said the Christian resurrection narrative was an essential part of Baha'i belief. That is clearly not the case anymore than the Baha'i resurrection narrative is important to Christians. However, the resurrection narrative is clearly important to Christians, Muslims and Baha'is.

In light of what we know today it is a grave injustice and a hoax to continue with this teaching on the bodily resurrection and I am sure if Baha'u'llah was standing here He would fully agree, for He was not quite as gracious as you are.
Baha'ullah clearly describes what they have lost by clinging to these beliefs.

“Inasmuch as these undiscerning and wretched souls have failed to apprehend the true meaning of “Resurrection” and of the “attainment unto the divine Presence,” they therefore have remained utterly deprived of the grace thereof.” The Kitáb-i-Íqán, p. 145

So as Baha'u'llah has placed great emphasis on the resurrection, not just in regards the Babi/Baha'i Faith but within Islam, it would be reasonable to assume it has similar significance and importance within Christianity. It becomes clear that without the Gospel accounts and Paul's exposition on the resurrection there wouldn't be a resurrection narrative at all within Christianity. So it makes perfect sense why there is the emphasis on the resurrection in the Christian Bible. It also makes sense, that the Christians, have got it so wrong. In taking the resurrection narrative literally they have entirely missed the point. The symbolism and allusions derived from the Gospel account no doubt have important similarities to Islam and the Baha'i Faith.

 

[Jimmy]

He appeared like Casper.
Semi transparent
Kind of like obi wan in return of the Jedi
He had like a greenish glow like an alien
Then he slowly became physical
He had huge pecks
And wore sunglasses
Then he turned into a bunny and hopped away
And those who saw him were sad that he left.

 

[74x12]

The physical body does not 'become' immortal. That is in-congruent with what Paul said:

The physical body of Jesus was not resurrected and changed from a corruptible body into an incorruptible and immortal body because a physical body cannot be changed into a spiritual body that will never die. Rather, there are two different kinds of bodies, as Paul said:

--- The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

--- For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

What Paul wrote below is right on the money. Our physical bodies will die and we will be raised as spiritual bodies. Paul says that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God and that means they cannot exist in heaven. When Paul says these dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever, he is referring to the spiritual world (heaven), which will last forever.

1 Corinthians 15:40-54 New Living Translation

40 There are also bodies in the heavens and bodies on the earth. The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.

44 They are buried as natural human bodies, but they will be raised as spiritual bodies. For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

50 What I am saying, dear brothers and sisters, is that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God. These dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever.

51 But let me reveal to you a wonderful secret. We will not all die, but we will all be transformed!

54 Then, when our dying bodies have been transformed into bodies that will never die,[c] this Scripture will be fulfilled: “Death is swallowed up in victory.[d]

Read full chapter

As I said above, the physical body does not 'become' immortal so the physical body of Jesus did not rise and become immortal. Rather, the physical body of Jesus died and He was raised in a spiritual body, and we can and will have the same thing, since everyone will be raised in a spiritual body. However, not everyone will have eternal life. Those who believed in Jesus and followed His teachings will have eternal life but that is not continued life in a physical body, it is nearness to God.

I believe Jesus physically rose from the dead. He didn't just rise as a spirit. Luke 24:39 makes it clear it was the same body that was crucified because he had the same exact wounds and Jesus says that spirits don't have flesh and bones like he does. He also eats and drinks to prove he isn't a ghost. Finally, it's clear that the angel rolled back the stone on the door of the tomb. (Matthew 28:2) This would not need to happen if Jesus was only spiritually rising. And then, where did his body go if it didn't rise from the dead? Because when they checked the tomb there was no body inside. (John 20:2) This means he must have risen physically or there should have been a physical body still there.

This does not contradict what Paul is saying because we know what Paul's teachings are. His belief is that the physical body (the flesh) will be transformed. It won't die and simply remain dead. It will be translated like Enoch or Elijah were. (see Hebrews 11:5) So it will not any longer be at enmity with God as it once was. It was made subject to vanity unwillingly in hope of the deliverance God would provide just as creation was subjected to the same vanity. (Romans 8:18-21) And we by crucifying the flesh now; may in the end actually save it through this transformative power of the resurrection.

I don't know who told you that Jesus didn't rise physically and I don't mean for you to take this personally; but we should be wary of any religion that teaches Jesus did not physically rise from the dead because this religion's doctrine may actually fall into the category of "antichrist" according to the scriptural definition of "antichrist" teachings. Because according to the scriptures; antichrist teachings will indeed claim Jesus did not come in the flesh. This may well include resurrection as a "coming" back from the dead. So that means the scriptures are pretty clear that Jesus must have risen bodily from death. So it's an essential doctrine according to 1st John 4:3 and 2nd John 1:7.

We must believe that Jesus was born in the flesh, lived in the flesh, died in the flesh (Islam denies this part) and finally that he rose in the flesh. Anything else is unfortunately falling into that antichrist category which John warns of.

 

[Jimmy]

 

[Trailblazer]

I believe Jesus physically rose from the dead. He didn't just rise as a spirit. Luke 24:39 makes it clear it was the same body that was crucified because he had the same exact wounds and Jesus says that spirits don't have flesh and bones like he does. He also eats and drinks to prove he isn't a ghost. Finally, it's clear that the angel rolled back the stone on the door of the tomb. (Matthew 28:2) This would not need to happen if Jesus was only spiritually rising. And then, where did his body go if it didn't rise from the dead? Because when they checked the tomb there was no body inside. (John 20:2) This means he must have risen physically or there should have been a physical body still there.

As far as I am concerned these are just stories that the gospel authors told, fictional stories. I know I am not to convince any Christian of that as people are going to believe what they believe, but these are not historical facts, they are stories. The missing body is just part of the story, and no story is proof that the story is actually true. Of course it is written to sound true, but that does not mean it is true. The point is that nobody can ever prove it ever happened.

This does not contradict what Paul is saying because we know what Paul's teachings are. His belief is that the physical body (the flesh) will be transformed. It won't die and simply remain dead.

No, that is not what Paul taught. He did not teach that the physical flesh would be transformed into a physical body that will never die. A physical body cannot be changed into a body that will never die. Rather, there are two different kinds of bodies, as Paul said:

--- The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.
--- For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

Our physical bodies will die and we will be raised as spiritual bodies. Paul says that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God and that means they cannot exist in heaven. When Paul says these dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever, he is referring to the spiritual world (heaven), which will last forever.

I don't know who told you that Jesus didn't rise physically and I don't mean for you to take this personally; but we should be wary of any religion that teaches Jesus did not physically rise from the dead because this religion's doctrine may actually fall into the category of "antichrist" according to the scriptural definition of "antichrist" teachings.

In case you are not aware of this there are many liberal Christians who do not believe that Jesus rise from the dead.

What many liberal theologians believe about Jesus' death

Because according to the scriptures; antichrist teachings will indeed claim Jesus did not come in the flesh.

The resurrection has nothing to do with whether Jesus came in the flesh or not. My religion clearly teaches that Jesus came in the flesh.

This may well include resurrection as a "coming" back from the dead.

It does not include that and the two are not linked in the Bible.

So that means the scriptures are pretty clear that Jesus must have risen bodily from death. So it's an essential doctrine according to 1st John 4:3 and 2nd John 1:7.

We must believe that Jesus was born in the flesh, lived in the flesh, died in the flesh (Islam denies this part) and finally that he rose in the flesh. Anything else is unfortunately falling into that antichrist category which John warns of.

We must believe that Jesus was born in the flesh, lived in the flesh, and died in the flesh, but we are not required to believe that the physical body of Jesus came back to life after three days. There is no reason to believe such a thing, except for stories men wrote about Jesus, men who never even knew Jesus. Nowhere did Jesus ever say He rose in the flesh. I will allow the atheists to explain all the contradictions in the gospels of accounts of the resurrection because they are more familiar with the Bible than I am.

 

[Jimmy]

As far as I am concerned these are just stories that the gospel authors told, fictional stories. I know I am not to convince any Christian of that as people are going to believe what they believe, but these are not historical facts, they are stories. The missing body is just part of the story, and no story is proof that the story is actually true. Of course it is written to sound true, but that does not mean it is true. The point is that nobody can ever prove it ever happened.

No, that is not what Paul taught. He did not teach that the physical flesh would be transformed into a physical body that will never die. A physical body cannot be changed into a body that will never die. Rather, there are two different kinds of bodies, as Paul said:

--- The glory of the heavenly bodies is different from the glory of the earthly bodies.
--- For just as there are natural bodies, there are also spiritual bodies.

Our physical bodies will die and we will be raised as spiritual bodies. Paul says that our physical bodies cannot inherit the Kingdom of God and that means they cannot exist in heaven. When Paul says these dying bodies cannot inherit what will last forever, he is referring to the spiritual world (heaven), which will last forever.

In case you are not aware of this there are many liberal Christians who do not believe that Jesus rise from the dead.

What many liberal theologians believe about Jesus' death

The resurrection has nothing to do with whether Jesus came in the flesh or not. My religion clearly teaches that Jesus came in the flesh.

It does not include that and the two are not linked in the Bible.

We must believe that Jesus was born in the flesh, lived in the flesh, and died in the flesh, but we are not required to believe that the physical body of Jesus came back to life after three days. There is no reason to believe such a thing, except for stories men wrote about Jesus, men who never even knew Jesus. Nowhere did Jesus ever say He rose in the flesh. I will allow the atheists to explain all the contradictions in the gospels of accounts of the resurrection because they are more familiar with the Bible than I am.

 

[John1.12]

There have been so many threads being posted about Jesus rising from the dead, so I think it is about time someone asked why it matters so much to people, not only Christians but also atheists.

So what is the significance of Jesus rising from the dead and why is it such a big deal to people?

I have my own ideas but I do not want to give away my position until I have heard from others.

1 cor 15
11Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

(cf. 1 Thess. 4:13–18 )
12¶Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

16For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain;ye are yet in your sins.

18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

 

[firedragon]

Sorry I did not make that clear in my OP. I thought everyone would know I meant rose physically when I said Jesus rising from the dead.

Oh I see.

Well, the moving of the stone is signifying a physical rising. But that's the Gospel account. Paul as I said was writing before that, so he was probably referring to the spiritual rising. He was never there and he does not claim to be there. He only claims to have seen the spirit. But the Gospel account of the tomb is signifying a physical rising. If its spirit, the stone does not need to move at all.

 

[firedragon]

Another way to interpret what Paul said that if the Spirit of Christ had not been brought back to life after three days, their preaching would have been impossible.

Thats not what he says. He says if he was not raised, the preaching is in vain. Not impossible. Which means the bedrock of his theology relies on the rising. Its a core belief and a must. Thats what he means.

 

[Trailblazer]

1 cor 15
11Therefore whether it were I or they, so we preach, and so ye believed.

(cf. 1 Thess. 4:13–18 )
12¶Now if Christ be preached that he rose from the dead, how say some among you that there is no resurrection of the dead?

13But if there be no resurrection of the dead, then is Christ not risen:

14And if Christ be not risen, then is our preaching vain, and your faith is also vain.

15Yea, and we are found false witnesses of God; because we have testified of God that he raised up Christ: whom he raised not up, if so be that the dead rise not.

16For if the dead rise not, then is not Christ raised:

17And if Christ be not raised, your faith is vain;ye are yet in your sins.

18Then they also which are fallen asleep in Christ are perished.

19If in this life only we have hope in Christ, we are of all men most miserable.

The question remains is what all that means.

 

[John1.12]

The question remains is what all that means.

It means without the resurrection, All is lost . There is no redemption for anyone . Jesus just died and the whole thing is a sham.

 

[Trailblazer]

Oh I see.

Well, the moving of the stone is signifying a physical rising. But that's the Gospel account. Paul as I said was writing before that, so he was probably referring to the spiritual rising. He was never there and he does not claim to be there. He only claims to have seen the spirit. But the Gospel account of the tomb is signifying a physical rising. If its spirit, the stone does not need to move at all.

I do not believe in the gospel accounts of the resurrection, I believe they are just fictional stories men wrote about Jesus.
If Christians want to believe that Jesus rose from the dead that's their prerogative, just count me out.
I am not like atheists who think well maybe it happened, just give me some evidence....
I think it is the most ridiculous belief that has ever existed on the face of the earth.

 

[Trailblazer]

Thats not what he says. He says if he was not raised, the preaching is in vain. Not impossible. Which means the bedrock of his theology relies on the rising. Its a core belief and a must. Thats what he means.

I do not care what Christians believe, Paul was not talking about a physical rising, but no matter.....
It is not a core belief or a must for me because I am not a Christian, I am a Baha'i, and I thank God every day for that.

 

[John1.12]

I do not believe in the gospel accounts of the resurrection, I believe they are just fictional stories men wrote about Jesus.
If Christians want to believe that Jesus rose from the dead that's their prerogative, just count me out.
I am not like atheists who think well maybe it happened, just give me some evidence....
I think it is the most ridiculous belief that has ever existed on the face of the earth.

Given the narrative, how is it ridiculous?

 

[firedragon]

I do not care what Christians believe, Paul was not talking about a physical rising, but no matter.....
It is not a core belief or a must for me because I am not a Christian, I am a Baha'i, and I thank God every day for that.

You asked why Christians believe or it is important for them to believe, so I gave you the reasons. I dont believe what they believe either. But this is the reason.

 

[Trailblazer]

It means without the resurrection, All is lost . There is no redemption for anyone . Jesus just died and the whole thing is a sham.

But why? Why wouldn't the cross sacrifice and the teachings of Jesus matter unless Jesus came back to life?
It just makes no sense at all.

 

[Trailblazer]

Given the narrative, how is it ridiculous?

What does the narrative have to do with it? People write ridiculous stories all the time. It does not mean they are true.