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Why you should keep your guns by someone who lived with Nazi's in Austria

tytlyf

Not Religious
The lady lived through that terrible time. Calling her a fear monger is beyond ridiculous.
That depends, is this video recently popping up on conservative websites? That tells the whole story. Comparing America to Germany 70 years ago is a worn out panic mongering technique. America isn't Germany, never will be. RW media pulled the same trick comparing the American economy to Greece. OMG!!!!....we're gonna be Greece soon! Stop being so paranoid.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
You know where they go to get guns in Chicago? A couple bucks of gas driving to an area with lax laws. Straw purchases. Having lax laws allow criminals to exploit the system. I get it, the solution is to remove all laws because criminals don't follow laws right? That is exactly your argument.

Im trying to converse with you and you are putting words in mouth. I didn't say get rid of all gun laws, I said enforce the existing ones. Please read my post. I am all for background checks. I am all for people on a terror watch list not being able to purchase a gun. I am all for requiring background checks at gun shows. And I dont think felons should be able to own firearms. But I believe wholeheartedly in a persons right to self defense and that includes ownership of a firearm. And tylyf, if you want me to clarify my position just ask me. Please don't make assumptions as to my meaning. There are plenty of fun points to debate without that.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
That depends, is this video recently popping up on conservative websites? That tells the whole story. Comparing America to Germany 70 years ago is a worn out panic mongering technique. America isn't Germany, never will be. RW media pulled the same trick comparing the American economy to Greece. OMG!!!!....we're gonna be Greece soon! Stop being so paranoid.

Good grief! Now I'm "paranoid"? Simply for being respectful of someone who speaks from personal experience? I think not.
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
Im trying to converse with you and you are putting words in mouth. I didn't say get rid of all gun laws, I said enforce the existing ones. Please read my post. I am all for background checks. I am all for people on a terror watch list not being able to purchase a gun. I am all for requiring background checks at gun shows. And I dont think felons should be able to own firearms. But I believe wholeheartedly in a persons right to self defense and that includes ownership of a firearm. And tylyf, if you want me to clarify my position just ask me. Please don't make assumptions as to my meaning. There are plenty of fun points to debate without that.
You're making assumptions. Which gun laws aren't enforced? Please tell me. It is known that certain cops don't enforce gun laws they don't agree with. Everyone agrees that people have the right to own a gun based on the constitution. That isn't changing. Have a gun at home or five for self defense. No one cares about that. The problem is the lack of laws that make it easy for people to get guns when they shouldn't be able to get them. Even the terrorist in Orlando was able to pass a background check, even though being on the FBI radar. The laws are enforced, the problem is that the laws are too weak. But that's what the NRA likes, because otherwise they lose profits.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
You're making assumptions. Which gun laws aren't enforced? Please tell me. It is known that certain cops don't enforce gun laws they don't agree with. Everyone agrees that people have the right to own a gun based on the constitution. That isn't changing. Have a gun at home or five for self defense. No one cares about that. The problem is the lack of laws that make it easy for people to get guns when they shouldn't be able to get them. Even the terrorist in Orlando was able to pass a background check, even though being on the FBI radar. The laws are enforced, the problem is that the laws are too weak. But that's what the NRA likes, because otherwise they lose profits.

I agree with you that the guy in Orlando should not have been eligible to buy a gun. Someone goofed big-time there. But I'm curious about your source about cops only enforcing the gun
laws they agree with. Where I'm from we're pretty strict about it.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
[QUO="Koldo, post: 4807900, member: 27587"]It is the truth. Watch the video.[/QUOTE]
You think she's lying? Perhaps you know her personally? I admit I've never met her but I'm sure it's easy to research her background.
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
I agree with you that the guy in Orlando should not have been eligible to buy a gun. Someone goofed big-time there. But I'm curious about your source about cops only enforcing the gun
laws they agree with. Where I'm from we're pretty strict about it.
A lot of cops are conservative and against any laws for guns because of the tyrannical government. Many are former military (which is a bad situation given PTSD). A cop will not enforce certain gun laws they don't agree with. Regardless if it's against their job requirement.

One of many

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/16/us/sheriffs-refuse-to-enforce-laws-on-gun-control.html?_r=0
 

Koldo

Outstanding Member
You think she's lying? Perhaps you know her personally? I admit I've never met her but I'm sure it's easy to research her background.

Lying ? No.
Did you watch the video? I mean the whole thing until the very end.

I have no qualms with what she claims to have transpired. My criticism is towards how she advocates her political aims.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
A lot of cops are conservative and against any laws for guns because of the tyrannical government. Many are former military (which is a bad situation given PTSD). A cop will not enforce certain gun laws they don't agree with. Regardless if it's against their job requirement.

One of many

http://www.nytimes.com/2013/12/16/us/sheriffs-refuse-to-enforce-laws-on-gun-control.html?_r=0

I've never met any police officer that is against all gun laws. And im speaking from experience. That is silly. And I know several fine officers that are veterans. Your just being contrary. This is a waste of time. It's all too easy for one who has never been in the military or been a police officer to sit back and pass broad judgement on ......Wait, have you ever served as an officer or a soldier?
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Lying ? No.
Did you watch the video? I mean the whole thing until the very end.

I have no qualms with what she claims to have transpired. My criticism is towards how she advocates her political aims.

Yes I watched all of it. And I think her opinion is so strong because she lived it. Because of that I give her respect.
 

tytlyf

Not Religious
I've never met any police officer that is against all gun laws. And im speaking from experience. That is silly. And I know several fine officers that are veterans. Your just being contrary. This is a waste of time. It's all too easy for one who has never been in the military or been a police officer to sit back and pass broad judgement on ......Wait, have you ever served as an officer or a soldier?
You asked for proof/source, I provided it. One of many. The same people who hate any gun laws are in LE. And those people will choose to deliberately ignore the law, especially if it's that evil liberal Obama law. I don't lie, I'm an atheist. It's a pinnacle of our ideology. We are defenders of the secular constitution. We don't want religion in politics or government. Keep it at home and in your church.
 

David1967

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
You asked for proof/source, I provided it. One of many. The same people who hate any gun laws are in LE. And those people will choose to deliberately ignore the law, especially if it's that evil liberal Obama law. I don't lie, I'm an atheist. It's a pinnacle of our ideology. We are defenders of the secular constitution. We don't want religion in politics or government. Keep it at home and in your church.

Ok. So you've insulted the military, police officers, people with conservative values, and moved th o church. Hmm. Some people just got to have a cause. ..real or imagined. I will waste no more time on this. Good bye.
 

Saint Frankenstein

Here for the ride
Premium Member
Mostly, the confederate flag thing is it's "remembering great grandpa" for most of the south. In a time where nearly everyone was racist to some degree (much more so that now), the racist flag argument is invalid. They were neither more racist or less racist than the north at the time. Anyway, I'm tired of the mental midgets having the day. If you are seriously miffed about a flag you need to get a head check. :)

KKK's views on Hitler are largely revisionist, and pretty inconsequential. Hitler wasn't really a bigot or racist and like most cults of personality you need a demon to scare the locals and he just picked greedy Jewish bankers and other undesirables. It mostly gave him grounds to seize money to fill up the war chest, so don't think it goes too deep.

Most of the white power groups are what as known as "alt-right" which is hardly representative of the bulk of right-wing views. Most of the right wing proper rejects racism, or discrimination of any kind. The right wing doesn't embrace the totalitarianism that would be required to make a new Hitler out of Trump, so invalid argument. Anyway, the right-wing in our country is pro-gun rights and this is about the first thing Nazi Germany would prevent. The ideological separation couldn't be larger.

All political movements have their warts, and if we want to get into it is easy to find them on the left-wing as well. Left-wing movements tend to gravitate people toward laziness, dependency, and equality. Equality was a big thing for Hitler, at least with anyone he cared for - he destroyed the rich, the poor, and made working compulsory. Social programs like free healthcare, and free income were big favorites for him too. With Hitler, you had free vehicles, homes, cash, babysitting, and nearly anything else. You got food with a coupon, and if you ever screwed up you were intimidated by Gestapo to rat on other people. You basically had everything you could want, as long as you were happy to become a Marxist, sell your soul to the devil and ignore all of the people he was killing. (Mentally disabled, old, gay, and anyone that wouldn't work.)

Nearly identical as far as government bureaucracy and equality. Pure equality doesn't allow special considerations for anyone, thus anyone who is not fit to work or in top condition is viewed as a parasite. Nazi literally means "Nationalsozialismus" or National Socialism. At least in Austria, taking the guns away from the population was important. Anyway, the video that was in the OP says it all better than I can. I prefer to have peoples experiences talk for themselves.
Okay, these have to be some of the dumbest things I've read on here in a while, and that's really saying something. I'm not even going to bother refuting your nonsense point by point, because you'll just ignore it like you always do when I tear apart your nonsense. :rolleyes:
 
Hitler wasn't really a bigot or racist and like most cults of personality you need a demon to scare the locals and he just picked greedy Jewish bankers and other undesirables...

Seriously incorrect beliefs like this might be why you struggle to see the difference between Nazis and centrist social democrats.

So he was alright with non-greedy non-banker Jews?

By other "undesirables", do you mean Slavs, gypsies, gays, the handicapped, leftists, blacks, and generally most of the people in the world ?

And by 'scare the locals' did you mean via a systematic, industrialised and sadistic genocide?




Social programs like free healthcare, and free income were big favorites for him too.

For the sake of discussion, I'll assume these are true (although Bismark started the trend towards healthcare provisions in Germany). The Nazis weren't terrible because they provided people with healthcare, it was because they were totalitarian, militaristic, murderous founded on a doctrine of racial supremacy and genocidal.

The stereotypical quote of a Hitler sympathiser is 'at least he made the trains run on time', you wouldn't accuse the Swiss of Nazi tendencies just because of their famously punctual trains though.

To quote Abba Eban on the 'perils of analogy', "This apple is round, red, shiny, and good to eat. This rubber ball is round, red and shiny. Therefore, there is at least a strong probability that it will be good to eat. The basic truth is that circumstances in which situations differ from each other may precisely be those that define their essential nature."

There are plenty of perfectly rational, logical and reasonable arguments that Americans can make about why they should have the right to own guns or any other political position. Why the paranoia and obsession with trying to shoehorn the Nazis into into everything?
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Okay, these have to be some of the dumbest things I've read on here in a while, and that's really saying something. I'm not even going to bother refuting your nonsense point by point, because you'll just ignore it like you always do when I tear apart your nonsense. :rolleyes:

Nah, I ignore it because it's always the best answer to your comments. The backfire effect IS REAL.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
You know where they go to get guns in Chicago? A couple bucks of gas driving to an area with lax laws. Straw purchases. Having lax laws allow criminals to exploit the system. I get it, the solution is to remove all laws because criminals don't follow laws right? That is exactly your argument.

I live near Chicago, you still have to follow all of Chicago's laws if you buy guns elsewhere. Indiana won't sell guns to anyone in Illinois due to the idiotic paperwork requirements. (which is actually the closest place for them to buy) Chicago gets lists of gun owners who reside in their city from the state, so I hope you have your stuff in check. :) There is no "gun show" loophole or whatever crap the media is on about either. Even private sales require you to register the sale on the State Police website and get a transaction number as well as do a transfer background check. The transfer is not considered lawful without the transaction number or approval number. So yes, we have it pretty hard to get guns for legal reasons. I filed my paperwork for FOID (our firearm card) last month and still do not have it. I've never been in trouble with anyone or for anything, so yes it just prevents good people from getting their guns for lawful purposes in any reasonable time.

Most of the guns in Chicago are illegal, and largely they are in a 5 mile region of the west and south sides. The restrictions just make it easier for them to do bad things to good people. They struck down the law banning guns in the city, but they still have all sorts of silly restrictions.
 

Mindmaster

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
And by 'scare the locals' did you mean via a systematic, industrialised and sadistic genocide?
[MASSIVE SNIP]
There are plenty of perfectly rational, logical and reasonable arguments that Americans can make about why they should have the right to own guns or any other political position. Why the paranoia and obsession with trying to shoehorn the Nazis into into everything?

The genocide was largely unknown to the locals whether they be Germans or Austrians. Nah, what he did with the locals is turn every citizen into a narc and introduced propaganda into every institution in society. The gun taking in Austria was blamed initially on criminals and started with a registration process, so that we could "find the bad guys" and ended with each of the people who registered having their guns forceably turned in. After that there wasn't any way for Austria to escape Hitler's grasp.

I'm not shoe-horning the Nazi's into everything, the Democrats are acting exactly like them just revision 2.0. (You know, without the overt genocide and other obvious tells.) They're inciting riots, promoting the race war, encouraging abortion in black communities (extermination policy), and a whole other host of similar lines of thought. At this point, it's just common sense. Something that seems to be in short supply with the American public at the moment.
 

Laika

Well-Known Member
Premium Member
Mostly, the confederate flag thing is it's "remembering great grandpa" for most of the south. In a time where nearly everyone was racist to some degree (much more so that now), the racist flag argument is invalid. They were neither more racist or less racist than the north at the time. Anyway, I'm tired of the mental midgets having the day. If you are seriously miffed about a flag you need to get a head check. :)

KKK's views on Hitler are largely revisionist, and pretty inconsequential. Hitler wasn't really a bigot or racist and like most cults of personality you need a demon to scare the locals and he just picked greedy Jewish bankers and other undesirables. It mostly gave him grounds to seize money to fill up the war chest, so don't think it goes too deep.

Most of the white power groups are what as known as "alt-right" which is hardly representative of the bulk of right-wing views. Most of the right wing proper rejects racism, or discrimination of any kind. The right wing doesn't embrace the totalitarianism that would be required to make a new Hitler out of Trump, so invalid argument. Anyway, the right-wing in our country is pro-gun rights and this is about the first thing Nazi Germany would prevent. The ideological separation couldn't be larger.

All political movements have their warts, and if we want to get into it is easy to find them on the left-wing as well. Left-wing movements tend to gravitate people toward laziness, dependency, and equality. Equality was a big thing for Hitler, at least with anyone he cared for - he destroyed the rich, the poor, and made working compulsory. Social programs like free healthcare, and free income were big favorites for him too. With Hitler, you had free vehicles, homes, cash, babysitting, and nearly anything else. You got food with a coupon, and if you ever screwed up you were intimidated by Gestapo to rat on other people. You basically had everything you could want, as long as you were happy to become a Marxist, sell your soul to the devil and ignore all of the people he was killing. (Mentally disabled, old, gay, and anyone that wouldn't work.)

The link below is in case anyone wants to actually check Nazi views on Marxism/Socialism from a primary source;

http://research.calvin.edu/german-propaganda-archive/goeb58.htm
 
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