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Will Allah Punish a Good Hindu?

Many Sages One Truth

Active Member
I am sorry, I hope Storm doesn't mind me creating a topic off of the one on one debate she is having with Islam Abdullah. I noticed that she gave a statement that he half answered and half ignored:

What I meant was that it's not fair for him to favor a bad Muslim over a good Hindu.

Abdullah clarified that bad Muslims will be punished, but said nothing about good Hindus. So I'm just curious, will god punish a good Hindu just because they were a Hindu?

Thoughts?
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
I've read some responses on this forum from Muslims who stated that Allah cares more that a person does good than that they believe one thing or another about Him.

However, I think that like people of any religion, even many Muslims forget this and seem bias in favour of a person if they are Muslim simply for claiming that religion over another and despite being a 'good' Muslim or not (an example would be some comments I read after Bin Laden was killed, saying that despite his actions he was still a Muslim brother who did not deserve to be ridiculed).
 

Many Sages One Truth

Active Member
I am pretty sure there is a hadith though that does say something along the lines that Allah will rescue a bad Muslim from hell by putting a Christian or a Jew in his place.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
I am pretty sure there is a hadith though that does say something along the lines that Allah will rescue a bad Muslim from hell by putting a Christian or a Jew in his place.

Muslims tend to pick and choose when it comes to the Hadiths. They are not generally considered as important or valid as the Quran. At least, this is what I have been told by some members here. If I remember correctly, the hadiths are writings from men who claim to have heard those teachings from Mohammad, but it is just hearsay, not proof, and therefore do not necessarily need to be taken very seriously.

But I am open to any Muslim member correcting my memory of this.
 

Onkara

Well-Known Member
All humans are subject to suffering due to the consequences of their actions, consciously or not.

Suffering or "punishment" need not depend on judgment day or an afterlife it can happen whilst living, the Quran illustrates instances where people suffered natural disasters as a consequences of their ignorance and denial of God/Allah.

The point, in my opinion, is not how (which scripture) we arrive at God, but the denial or acceptance of God, individually. All humans are able to arrive at God, at which point the goal justifies the means.

The issue of right and wrong exists whilst the individual holds even the smallest of doubt in God.
 

Madhuri

RF Goddess
Staff member
Premium Member
I am pretty sure there is a hadith though that does say something along the lines that Allah will rescue a bad Muslim from hell by putting a Christian or a Jew in his place.

I hope Muslims do not believe this, after all, it would justify any Muslim for breaking Allah's laws if they do not fear the consequence of hell.
 

Sahar

Well-Known Member
Heaven = sound belief + good deeds

After all the sound belief defines what is good and what is not. People's definitions of good may vary...

So a person who believes that there is one God and Muhammad is His prophet, yet he spreads corruption in land, insult this and mock that, cheat here and lie there...this indicates that there is a serious defect in his faith.

Any good deed must be accompanied by sincerity; doing it solely for the sake of God...in other words, the status of submission is required for any apparent good deed to be accepted by Allah.

So belief must be accompanied by the good work. Both are important.

I am pretty sure there is a hadith though that does say something along the lines that Allah will rescue a bad Muslim from hell by putting a Christian or a Jew in his place.
I have never heard anything of that sort and in that case you need to quote an authentic Hadith that support your claim.
 

Sahar

Well-Known Member
Muslims tend to pick and choose when it comes to the Hadiths. They are not generally considered as important or valid as the Quran. At least, this is what I have been told by some members here. If I remember correctly, the hadiths are writings from men who claim to have heard those teachings from Mohammad, but it is just hearsay, not proof, and therefore do not necessarily need to be taken very seriously.
This is not the view of the majority of Muslims/Sunni Muslims. It's a view of a very minority of the so called "Qur'anists" who don't believe in the hadith or pick and choose as you said.

Most Muslims don't pick and choose from the authentic Hadiths. Sunni Muslims accept the authentic Hadith as the second source of Islam and they are taken seriously.

People who conveyed the sayings and tradition of the Prophet Muhammad are the same as those who conveyed the Holy Qur'an.
--------

The fundamental Islamic sources such as the Qur'an and the core traditions of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) have been fully preserved intact. This can be demonstrated easily by referring to the sound historical methodologies in verifying the sources.

There is a basic distinction between Islam and other religions in this regard: Islam is singularly unique among the world religions in the fact that in order to preserve the sources of their religion, the Muslims invented a scientific methodology based on precise rules for gathering data and verifying them.

As it has been said, " Isnad or documentation is part of Islamic religion, and if it had not been for isnad , everybody would have said whatever he wanted."

So, there is no comparison between the sources of Islam and those of other religions in this respect, as you will never find anything comparable to the many sciences Muslims invented for this noble task of preserving the sources of Islam. By virtue of such sciences, you can scrutinize and verify every report in the sources.

Thanks to these efforts, the Qur'an as well as the core tradition on which the Islamic faith and practices are based, have been fully protected.

In this context, it should be added that the process of recording Hadith started as early as the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). Actually, many Companions recorded hadiths, and, `Abdullah ibn `Amr, for example, was permitted and even encouraged by the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) to write down Hadith. In addition, some 50 Companions and many Successors are said to have possessed manuscripts (sahifah, Arabic plural suhuf), which was used as a term to designate compendia of Hadith that emerged during the century before the formation of the classical collections.
IslamOnline.net
 

Sahar

Well-Known Member
I've read some responses on this forum from Muslims who stated that Allah cares more that a person does good than that they believe one thing or another about Him.
Not true. Any good deed must be based on the correct knowledge of God and thus the sound belief in Him.

The main part of the Qur'an is concerned with correcting people's beliefs and guiding them to the true knowledge and understanding of God.
 

beenie

Veteran Member
Staff member
Premium Member
I am pretty sure there is a hadith though that does say something along the lines that Allah will rescue a bad Muslim from hell by putting a Christian or a Jew in his place.

If Hadith contradicts the Qur'an, it's NOT valid. This sounds like one of those Hadith.

Muslims tend to pick and choose when it comes to the Hadiths. They are not generally considered as important or valid as the Quran. At least, this is what I have been told by some members here. If I remember correctly, the hadiths are writings from men who claim to have heard those teachings from Mohammad, but it is just hearsay, not proof, and therefore do not necessarily need to be taken very seriously.

But I am open to any Muslim member correcting my memory of this.

There is a growing number of people who are becoming skeptical of Hadith. There are some that are authentic because they are supported by Qur'an, those that are not should be treated as unauthentic.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Not true. Any good deed must be based on the correct knowledge of God and thus the sound belief in Him.
Pish posh....a good deed is a good deed, even if one denies all the gods.
It seems unreasonable that our ignorance causes punishment in an afterlife.
 

idav

Being
Premium Member
I am sorry, I hope Storm doesn't mind me creating a topic off of the one on one debate she is having with Islam Abdullah. I noticed that she gave a statement that he half answered and half ignored:



Abdullah clarified that bad Muslims will be punished, but said nothing about good Hindus. So I'm just curious, will god punish a good Hindu just because they were a Hindu?

Thoughts?
What I get from the monotheistic religions is that God takes great offense to false gods and is as bad as being atheist.
 

Sahar

Well-Known Member
Pish posh....a good deed is a good deed, even if one denies all the gods.
Okay, but this is not the sole point to Muslims. The outward might look good but your inward might not be as good. For example, a person might help the needy because he wants to show off and want to be famous. Another one might do the same deed but in secret or even in public while he doesn't want anything from this world, he doesn't want fame nor thanks, he only wants God. In the divine scale of justice, every one of them will get what he worked for. The first one will get his fame i.e he will will be rewarded in this worldly life, but not in the hereafter, the second one will get God's love and pleasure in this life and the hereafter. And there is a huge difference between this world adornments and God's pleasure and blessings. There is a huge difference between a temporary restless life of 70 years and an eternal life of happiness and peace.

For us, it's all about God and our love and submission to Him. Thus every step we take is centered around this. And by this love and submission in our stillness and movement, heaven is earned.

Secondly, I and you can sometimes disagree on what is good.

It seems unreasonable that our ignorance causes punishment in an afterlife.
There is a very basic rule: God doesn't punish any person except after receiving the knowledge of His message.
Secondly God judges us based on our capacity. Noone is held accountable for what is beyond his ability.

"We shall set up scales of justice for the Day of Judgment, so that not a soul will be dealt with unjustly in the least, and if there be (no more than) the weight of a mustard seed, We will bring it (to account): and enough are We to take account." Al-Anbiya': Holy Qur'an

"Then shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it! And anyone who has done an atom's weight of evil, shall see it." Az-Zalzala: Qur'an
 
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K.Venugopal

Immobile Wanderer
There is a basic distinction between Islam and other religions in this regard: Islam is singularly unique among the world religions in the fact that in order to preserve the sources of their religion, the Muslims invented a scientific methodology based on precise rules for gathering data and verifying them.

As it has been said, " Isnad or documentation is part of Islamic religion, and if it had not been for isnad , everybody would have said whatever he wanted."

So, there is no comparison between the sources of Islam and those of other religions in this respect, as you will never find anything comparable to the many sciences Muslims invented for this noble task of preserving the sources of Islam. By virtue of such sciences, you can scrutinize and verify every report in the sources.

Thanks to these efforts, the Qur'an as well as the core tradition on which the Islamic faith and practices are based, have been fully protected.

In this context, it should be added that the process of recording Hadith started as early as the time of the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him). Actually, many Companions recorded hadiths, and, `Abdullah ibn `Amr, for example, was permitted and even encouraged by the Prophet (peace and blessings be upon him) to write down Hadith. In addition, some 50 Companions and many Successors are said to have possessed manuscripts (sahifah, Arabic plural suhuf), which was used as a term to designate compendia of Hadith that emerged during the century before the formation of the classical collections.
Aren't Hadiths attributable to Mohammad and the Quran to Allah? Why haven't Muslims found the Quran, being the words (and the only extant words, as Muslims believe) of Allah sufficient and needed the words of Mohammad also? Though Muslims say they worship only Allah, as far as words go they appear to be worshiping the words of both Allah and Mohammad. Only this can explain the science of Isnad.
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Okay, but this is not the sole point to Muslims. The outward might look good but your inward might not be as good. For example, a person might help the needy because he wants to show off and want to be famous. Another one might do the same deed but in secret or even in public while he doesn't want anything from this world, he doesn't want fame nor thanks, he only wants God. In the divine scale of justice, every one of them will get what he worked for. The first one will get his fame i.e he will will be rewarded in this worldly life, but not in the hereafter, the second one will get God's love and pleasure in this life and the hereafter. And there is a huge difference between this world adornments and God's pleasure and blessings. There is a huge difference between a temporary restless life of 70 years and an eternal life of happiness and peace.
It was this statement I take issue with....
"Not true. Any good deed must be based on the correct knowledge of God and thus the sound belief in Him."
A consequence of your statement is that only believers may do good deeds.
I don't accept the necessity of belief in gods in order to do good. Tis a fine thing for
you to find inspiration in your dogma, but there are other paths to moral behavior.

For us, it's all about God and our love and submission to Him. Thus every step we take is centered around this. And by this love and submission in our stillness and movement, heaven is earned.
Secondly, I and you can sometimes disagree on what is good.
There is a very basic rule: God doesn't punish any person except after receiving the knowledge of His message.
Secondly God judges us based on our capacity. Noone is held accountable for what is beyond his ability.
That's a relief. I'm pretty incapable.
 

Sahar

Well-Known Member
It was this statement I take issue with....
"Not true. Any good deed must be based on the correct knowledge of God and thus the sound belief in Him."
My statement was in response to Madhuri's comment about what Allah cares about:
I've read some responses on this forum from Muslims who stated that Allah cares more that a person does good than that they believe one thing or another about Him.
Not true. Any good deed must be based on the correct knowledge of God and thus the sound belief in Him.

A consequence of your statement is that only believers may do good deeds.
I didn't say this. My context of speech was about the scale of deeds in the hereafter.

I don't accept the necessity of belief in gods in order to do good. Tis a fine thing for
you to find inspiration in your dogma, but there are other paths to moral behavior.
Well, you can be good and moral in some aspects if you're a disbeliever but without divine guidance you will fail to be like that in other aspects. As I said in the other post..."good" and "moral" can be debatable. We might agree that certain acts are good but we will definitely disagree on others. What you consider to be good and moral, might not be the case according to God's law and here the failure comes according to my belief. So the divine guidance provide the comprehensive moral map that protects us from falling into the slips of the human vain desires.
Belief in God provides a clear moral standard...and the best standard of course. ;)

That's a relief. I'm pretty incapable.
God will judge that and death is very near from anyone of us. :cover:
 

Sahar

Well-Known Member
Aren't Hadiths attributable to Mohammad and the Quran to Allah? Why haven't Muslims found the Quran, being the words (and the only extant words, as Muslims believe) of Allah sufficient and needed the words of Mohammad also?
The prophet Muhammad was like what lady 'Aisha described him; a Qur'an walking on earth. The prophet Muhammad's sayings and deeds were divinely inspired. As the Qur'an says: "Your companion [Muúammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred, nor does he speak from [his own] inclination." An-Najm: Qur'an.

Prophet Muhammad was the practical and detailed application of the Qur'an. So he was not acting from his own will away from Allah's will, no.
Repeatedly, Allah said in the holy Qur'an "obey the messenger".

Actually, there is agreement among most Muslim scholars, that the contents of the sunnah are also from Allah. However, these were expressed by the Prophet Muhammad in his own words or actions. While in the case of the Qur'an the Angel Gabriel brought the exact wording and contents to the Prophet, who received this as revelation and then announced it, in the very same manner that he received it.
Source
 

Revoltingest

Pragmatic Libertarian
Premium Member
Well, you can be good and moral in some aspects if you're a disbeliever but without divine guidance you will fail to be like that in other aspects.
I find that believers live up to no higher a standard than do I.
And most of them fall short.

As I said in the other post..."good" and "moral" can be debatable. We might agree that certain acts are good but we will definitely disagree on others. What you consider to be good and moral, might not be the case according to God's law and here the failure comes according to my belief. So the divine guidance provide the comprehensive moral map that protects us from falling into the slips of the human vain desires.
Belief in God provides a clear moral standard...and the best standard of course.
Even believers cannot agree upon that standard.
But regarding the standards they do agree upon, I still find them lacking in behaving according to their proffered values.
Just look at the Middle East....so many believers of so many faiths, yet they brutalize each other in the name of their faith.
Granted, not all individuals perpetrate evil, but neither are their brethren (& sistern) prevented by their faith from doing so.
 
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Sahar

Well-Known Member
I find that believers live up to no higher a standard than do I.

Even believers cannot agree upon that standard.
But regarding the standards they do agree upon, I still find them lacking in acting out their proffered values.
I am not sure about your second statement.
As for the last one, there are many that represent that example and there are others who try their best to act according to their values. But anyhow, the standard is known and this is important. Because when it's known, you will know too that you deviated in this and that part and how to fix the shortcoming.

And this is how the believer moves in this life. We are not angels, there will always be mistakes and shortcomings but the believer hurry to repent, fix the errors and replace them with good deeds, then he will slip again, after that stand again and so on. Life is a continuous struggle and no comfort in this world. And this struggle won't go in vain as long as it's for the sake of God.
 

Sahar

Well-Known Member
Just look at the Middle East....so many believers of so many faiths, yet they brutalize each other in the name of their faith.
By many faiths, you mean many sects of Islam, or you mean different religions; Islam, Judaism, etc.?
Granted, not all individuals perpetrate evil, but neither are their brethren (& sistern) prevented by their faith from doing so.
Sure thing and this is what I said in my first post here that it is an indication of their defective and weak faith and that's why there are Muslims who will go to hell. Actually, Muslims don't know their fates in the hereafter. Claiming to be a Muslim doesn't give you a free ticket to heaven, no. You will have to prove it by actual acts of love and submission to God/the good deeds.

On the other hand, there are others whose faith prevent them from doing evil...
 
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