Will Allah Punish a Good Hindu?

[nameless]

Okay, but this is not the sole point to Muslims. The outward might look good but your inward might not be as good. For example, a person might help the needy because he wants to show off and want to be famous. Another one might do the same deed but in secret or even in public while he doesn't want anything from this world, he doesn't want fame nor thanks, he only wants God.

i dont see any difference between the two, both are pseudos. Deeds are good only when it is done out of compassion, and not in expectation of rewards, fame or gods love in return. These types of deeds are no better than love(a deed) offered by prostitutes for money.

In the divine scale of justice, every one of them will get what he worked for. The first one will get his fame i.e he will will be rewarded in this worldly life, but not in the hereafter, the second one will get God's love and pleasure in this life and the hereafter. And there is a huge difference between this world adornments and God's pleasure and blessings. There is a huge difference between a temporary restless life of 70 years and an eternal life of happiness and peace.

pure selfishness ..... you people are taught to see helping the poor as an opportunity to gain rewards from god.
I would say, the first one is far better than the second, because he expects less(for only something in this life),where as the second one utilizes the deed maximum.

 

[Madhuri]

Not true. Any good deed must be based on the correct knowledge of God and thus the sound belief in Him.

The main part of the Qur'an is concerned with correcting people's beliefs and guiding them to the true knowledge and understanding of God.

So a person who does not believe in the existence of Allah, but who performs a selfless act for the good of others, is not given positive consideration by Allah? And so any of our actions are worth nothing if we do not have faith in Him?

And if I understand correctly, how can a person respect a god who they believe cares nothing for good/selfless deeds but cares only that people worship him?

It is fair enough that your religion places emphasis on helping others to find truth- after all, most religions ask their followers to bring people to its truth. But if I understand you correctly, the glaring difference between your religious understanding and mine is that Vishnu wishes that we love and serve one another for our own sake, to reduce suffering and bring harmony. He does not demand worship, we are not slaves who must fear punishment in hell. Our goal is to live in love and be good people.

 

[Revoltingest]

By many faiths, you mean many sects of Islam, or you mean different religions; Islam, Judaism, etc.?

All of the above.

Sure thing and this is what I said in my first post here that it is an indication of their defective and weak faith and that's why there are Muslims who will go to hell. Actually, Muslims don't know their fates in the hereafter. Claiming to be a Muslim doesn't give you a free ticket to heaven, no. You will have to prove it by actual acts of love and submission to God/the good deeds.
On the other hand, there are others whose faith prevent them from doing evil...

Perhaps I am far more inherently moral than the average Muslim.
When I do good deeds, I do it for no reason other than wanting to.
I fear no punishment by a vengeful god. I seek no reward in an afterlife.
Of course, I believe most Muslims would also do good deeds even if it weren't required by Islam.

 

[Sahar]

All of the above.

Perhaps I am far more inherently moral than the average Muslim.
When I do good deeds, I do it for no reason other than wanting to.
I fear no punishment by a vengeful god. I seek no reward in an afterlife.
Of course, I believe most Muslims would also do good deeds even if it weren't required by Islam.

Islam is not separate from the inner motive that drives you to do good. What you don't understand that Islam raises up this inclination to good in you, so there is no difference between "good required by Islam" and any good because doing any good is Islam itself. Islam is a state of heart that runs into your different body organs and drives you to move in this life in certain ways.

Doing good sincerely for God takes our good deeds into higher purifying levels. God is the source of all good, peace, mercy and compassion. God is the one who planted this good seed in us and wants us to grow it. In short, there is no separation between doing good for good and doing good for God because He is the origin of all good.

Sorry you're not inherently more moral, you are just denying your Creator and the Source of good.

 

[Madhuri]

Islam is not separate from the inner motive that drives you to do good. What you don't understand that Islam raises up this inclination to good in you, so there is no difference between "good required by Islam" and any good because doing any good is Islam itself. Islam is a state of heart that runs into your different body organs and drives you to move in this life in certain ways.

Doing good sincerely for God takes our good deeds into higher purifying levels. God is the source of all good, peace, mercy and compassion. God is the one who planted this good seed in us and wants us to grow it. In short, there is no separation between doing good for good and doing good for God because He is the origin of all good.

Sorry you're not inherently more moral, you are just denying your Creator and the Source of good.

But this can be said of people of other religions. A Christian does good for God, a Hindu does good for God. I will not argue that God is a source of all good, peace etc. But my objection is with the idea that one is not serving or connecting with God is he or she does not expressly identify with the Islamic scriptures, traditions or label. Even if a person has a wrong understanding of God, that does not mean that he or she is not a genuinely good or godly person. So i have trouble respecting the idea that Allah would disfavour a person who is genuinely selfless/good simply for not understanding or identifying with Islam.

But in my opinion, our good deeds in and of them selves bring us close to God. Selflessness and loving, even if not mindfully done for God, but done for those around us, will naturally connect us to the divine.

 

[Sahar]

So a person who does not believe in the existence of Allah, but who performs a selfless act for the good of others, is not given positive consideration by Allah? And so any of our actions are worth nothing if we do not have faith in Him?

"Then shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it! And anyone who has done an atom's weight of evil, shall see it." Az-Zalzala: Qur'an

What is for sure, those who do good with denying their creator, are rewarded in this life...God is the Just.

And if I understand correctly, how can a person respect a god who they believe cares nothing for good/selfless deeds but cares only that people worship him?

It's interesting that I said both aspects are important throughout the thread but you just ignored it.

It is fair enough that your religion places emphasis on helping others to find truth- after all, most religions ask their followers to bring people to its truth. But if I understand you correctly, the glaring difference between your religious understanding and mine is that Vishnu wishes that we love and serve one another for our own sake, to reduce suffering and bring harmony. He does not demand worship, we are not slaves who must fear punishment in hell. Our goal is to live in love and be good people.

We are salves who want nothing but to live in God's love and beauty.

Reducing the suffering and bringing harmony is a part of our worship and love to God.
Worship for us is a comprehensive meaning. If you're a doctor who helps the patients while being conscious of God is, it's a worship. Making your husband smile is a worship if done for the sake of God. Having sex with him is a worship. Helping an orphan is a worship if it was accompanied with sincerity. Quenching the thirst of a dog can be an act of worship. Watering a plant can be worship. Kissing the forehead of your mother can be worship. Your sleep can be an act of worship.

Any good deed can be turned into worship if accompanied with God consciousness.

God wants us to decrease suffering and and live in solidarity. The problem that you assume there is a contradiction or distinction between doing something sincerely for the sake of God, and doing something to spread good and lessen the suffering.

The issue is that we view every thing through the glasses of our faith. Doing good and decreasing the suffering is a part of our faith and worship.

Islam combines between spirituality and practicality in an amazing way. We can attain the higher spiritual levels through our practical daily lives.

 

[Madhuri]

"Then shall anyone who has done an atom's weight of good, see it! And anyone who has done an atom's weight of evil, shall see it." Az-Zalzala: Qur'an

What is for sure, those who do good with denying their creator, are rewarded in this life...God is the Just.


It's interesting that I said both aspects are important throughout the thread but you just ignored it.


We are salves who want nothing but to live in God's love and beauty.

Reducing the suffering and bringing harmony is a part of our worship and love to God.
Worship for us is a comprehensive meaning. If you're a doctor who helps the patients while being conscious of God is a worship. Making your husband smile is a worship if done for the sake of God. Having sex with him is a worship. Helping an orphan is a worship if it was accompanied with sincerity. Quenching the thirst of a dog can be an act of worship. Watering a plant can be worship. Kissing the forehead of your mother can be worship. Your sleep can be an act of worship.

Any good deed can be turned into worship if accompanied with God consciousness.

God wants us to decrease suffering and and live in solidarity with each other. The problem that you assume there is a contradiction or distinction between doing something sincerely for the sake of God, and doing something to spread good and lessen the suffering.

The issue that we view every thing through the glasses of our faith. Doing good and decreasing the suffering is a part of our faith and worship.

Islam combines between spirituality and practicality in an amazing way. We can attain the higher spiritual levels through our practical daily lives.

You see, everything that you have written in this post is complimentary with Hindu philosophy. In fact, there is little to no distinction. We are advised to do everything with God-consciousness.

And as you have said that there is no real distinction with Islam and the good deed, so my understanding is that there is no distinction between love/selflessness and being connected with the Lord. For God -is- Love, and so to love is to be in God. Even if we do not realise it.

My problem arose when you said that I was wrong in thinking that Allah favours the persons who do good. Because by saying that, it seems to me to be contradictory to what you have written above. For me, I see no distinction in being selfless and being godly. It is thus not as important to have the right understanding of God, the right religious label or identification, as it is to be a selfless person because, I repeat, being selfless is living in God even if we do not at once realise it. But by being that good person, we eventually come to understand love and goodness as God.

 

[Sahar]

I'd like to mention a story in the Hadith about a prostitute woman who was walking in the desert and found a thirsty dog. She took off her shoe and went into a well, filled her shoe with water and quenched the thirst of that dog.

For this sole act of sincere good and mercy (she was in the desert, no one could possibly see her except her Creator), her eternal fate is heaven.

How a sincere small act of good can outweigh any other bigger deeds you think you did in your life, in the divine scale! How beautiful!

 

[Madhuri]

I'd like to mention a story in the Hadith about a prostitute woman who was walking in the desert and found a thirsty dog. She took off her shoe and went into a well, filled her shoe with water and quenched the thirst of that dog.

For this sole act of sincere good and mercy (she was in the desert, no one could possibly see her except her Creator), her eternal fate is heaven.

How a sincere small act of good can outweigh any other bigger deeds you think you did in your life, in the divine scale! How beautiful!

But you see, this contradicts what you said to me earlier. Doesn't this story show that a good deed is more important that the religion we identify with?

 

[Sahar]

You see, everything that you have written in this post is complimentary with Hindu philosophy. In fact, there is little to no distinction. We are advised to do everything with God-consciousness.

And as you have said that there is no real distinction with Islam and the good deed, so my understanding is that there is no distinction between love/selflessness and being connected with the Lord. For God -is- Love, and so to love is to be in God. Even if we do not realise it.

My problem arose when you said that I was wrong in thinking that Allah favours the persons who do good. Because by saying that, it seems to me to be contradictory to what you have written above. For me, I see no distinction in being selfless and being godly. It is thus not as important to have the right understanding of God, the right religious label or identification, as it is to be a selfless person because, I repeat, being selfless is living in God even if we do not at once realise it. But by being that good person, we eventually come to understand love and goodness as God.

We disagree, Madhuri. The intention of doing something as a part of your devotion/submission to God is important. In other words, you have to be fully conscious of God and this requires the right understanding and knowledge about God.

I don't view goodness and love as god but I view God as loving and the source of all love and good, and there is a big difference between the two.

 

[Sahar]

After all what/who is God that you mentioned in your post? This is where we disagree. I hope the difference between our views is clear.

 

[Madhuri]

We disagree, Madhuri. The intention of doing something as a part of your devotion/submission to God is important. In other words, you have to be fully conscious of God and this requires the right understanding and knowledge about God.

I don't view goodness and love as god but I view God as loving and the source of all love and good, and there is a big difference between the two.

I do not disagree that it is great or better to do good with devotion to God. But does that discount the good that we do without devotion to God? Was that prostitute doing good with devotion to God?

 

[Koldaramor]

Hi everyone

According to Islam, non-Muslims will remain in hell forever. This is certain.

verses:

The Cave (Al-Kahf) 103 104 105 106
The Heifer (Al-Baqarah) 217
Repentance (Al-Tauba) 17
The Heights (Al-Araf) 147
etc.

 

[Onkara]

Hi everyone

According to Islam, non-Muslims will remain in hell forever. This is certain.

verses:

The Cave (Al-Kahf) 103 104 105 106
The Heifer (Al-Baqarah) 217
Repentance (Al-Tauba) 17
The Heights (Al-Araf) 147
etc.

By non-Muslims this means those who do not believe/submit to God. It is not an explicit list i.e. Chrsitian, Buddhist, Hindu, Jain etc.

 

[Revoltingest]

Islam is not separate from the inner motive that drives you to do good. What you don't understand that Islam raises up this inclination to good in you, so there is no difference between "good required by Islam" and any good because doing any good is Islam itself.

Are you saying that without Islam, one cannot be good?

Doing good sincerely for God takes our good deeds into higher purifying levels. God is the source of all good, peace, mercy and compassion. God is the one who planted this good seed in us and wants us to grow it. In short, there is no separation between doing good for good and doing good for God because He is the origin of all good.
Sorry you're not inherently more moral, you are just denying your Creator and the Source of good.

Have you ever experienced the perspective of being a non-Muslim?

 

[chinu]

I am sorry, I hope Storm doesn't mind me creating a topic off of the one on one debate she is having with Islam Abdullah. I noticed that she gave a statement that he half answered and half ignored:



Abdullah clarified that bad Muslims will be punished, but said nothing about good Hindus. So I'm just curious, will god punish a good Hindu just because they were a Hindu?

Thoughts?

A true muslim means: One who gets the victory over own "Mind", not the mind of others.

A true Hindu also means: One who gets the victory over own "Mind", not the mind of others.

Rest everybody will be punished... by Allah or Ram.

"Allahafis" or "Namaste" By:

_/\_
Chinu

 

[St Giordano Bruno]

Any other belief system according to many Islamic extremists would be deemed as being infidels in their eyes no matter how good they appear to be and face the wrath of Allah.

 

[Koldaramor]

By non-Muslims this means those who do not believe/submit to God. It is not an explicit list i.e. Chrsitian, Buddhist, Hindu, Jain etc.

Yes. According to Islam:

Muslims (Only Sunni and Shia Muslim)

non-Muslim (Kaffir) (Christian, Catholic, Protestant, Jewish, Hindu, Buddhist, Deist, Agnostic/Atheist etc.)

 

[K.Venugopal]

By non-Muslims this means those who do not believe/submit to God. It is not an explicit list i.e. Chrsitian, Buddhist, Hindu, Jain etc.

Surely there are non-Muslims who believe/submit to God. What does the Quran have to say about them? Since the Quran says there is only one God, how can it then accuse anyone of submitting to other Gods? Or does Allah answer only if properly and formally addressed and supplicated? Doesn't that sound a bit egoistic?

 

[K.Venugopal]

The prophet Muhammad was like what lady 'Aisha described him; a Qur'an walking on earth. The prophet Muhammad's sayings and deeds were divinely inspired. As the Qur'an says: "Your companion [Muúammad] has not strayed, nor has he erred, nor does he speak from [his own] inclination." An-Najm: Qur'an.

Prophet Muhammad was the practical and detailed application of the Qur'an. So he was not acting from his own will away from Allah's will, no.
Repeatedly, Allah said in the holy Qur'an "obey the messenger".

Actually, there is agreement among most Muslim scholars, that the contents of the sunnah are also from Allah. However, these were expressed by the Prophet Muhammad in his own words or actions. While in the case of the Qur'an the Angel Gabriel brought the exact wording and contents to the Prophet, who received this as revelation and then announced it, in the very same manner that he received it.
Source

Why did Allah say, "Obey the messenger"? Did He feel His Quran is insufficient? We can understand people being in awe of a messenger of no less than Allah Himself. But for Allah Himself to be in awe of Mohammad - that raises the possibility that Mohammad gave himself a certificate by interpolating Allah's words. Maybe a big crime and probably that is why the Muslims are forever praying for Mohammad (peace be upon him) every time they mention him.

Dear Sahar, I come from the state of Kerala in South India. It has been announced by a leading Muslim cleric that the biggest mosque in India at the cost of billions of dollars is being built in Kerala. That is a happy thing, for to build a prayer hall to Allah is verily commendable. But wait. The chap announces that the mosque is going to house a hair (yes, you read right, a hair) of Mohammad. And for good measure he has quoted hadiths which say that anyone who criticizes the hair of Mohammad is criticizing Allah himself! Do you think the Muslim cleric would go to hell or heaven? Isn't he actually worshiping a hair? I, being a Hindu, am of course condemned to hell for worshiping idols.